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Helping others see the Light

Old 07-24-18, 12:59 PM
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speyfitter
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Helping others see the Light

Now first thing I want to preface this with is I am not a snob, I don't think you need to spend big $$$ to own and ride a bike and everyone buys bikes for a particular purpose. After having owned a few cheaper department store-ish bikes myself, a 15 year old used Trek 4300 which I sold a couple years ago after owning/riding it a year, a new 2017 Trek marlin 7 mountain bike, and now a 2018 Trek FX 3 commuter style/fitness/hybrid bike I can say that spending more money on a bike definitely enhances the cycling experience over cheaper bikes as you get more features and higher quality components. Obviously at some point - I've never owned a bike more expensive then my FX3 so I can't say where - the law of diminishing returns takes over but I'm not sure if I have reached quite yet. I do know that with my current bike I want to ride more, and I find the experience more enjoyable. The higher quality components (relative here), better fit, aesthetics, etc. - a bunch of little but important things - compound to a better biking experience overall. I've seen this in my wifes Trek Shift 2 and my sons kids Trek Mountain bikes (which we bought used) in the low bull**** and higher quality build and all that.


Anyways - I have a neighbour. And he seems to have this attitude like all I'm doing is getting "hosed" by spending the money I have on my bikes. He buys department store bikes for him and his kids. We go on rides together sometimes (him, his kids, me, my son) to the local bike park with hills, etc. My sons Trek bike is solid with no issues. Their walmart bikes have parts fly off them and stupid things break. He bought a used bike for $100 a couple years ago and rode up to my doorstep one day to tell me his bike is the same as my Marlin 7. A few weeks later it fell apart and he quickly bought a new Department store bike. Anyways - I'm not the type to get worked up about it, and I'm not going to spend the time to enlighten him in a frank conversation, as I'm more subtle then that. I'm not going to crap on his parade if it's fair to say. I think he knows the truth he's just afraid to admit it. But is there a subtle way to help him see the light? I can tell his oldest son really enjoys riding and I can confidently say he would probably ride more if he had a better bike that didn't creek, shift poorly, etc. right from day one.


What are some things you have done to help others see the light? I realize sometimes budgets do come into play but I personally don't think that is the issue here.
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Old 07-24-18, 01:18 PM
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The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: "One man's light is another man's descent into darkness, so let each man choose what lights his way."
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Old 07-24-18, 01:22 PM
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Ask him how much money he has spent on department store bikes. Then compare that with what you spent on your Trek. Then the door to knowledge may open... The "you get what you pay for" saying definately applies here.
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Old 07-24-18, 01:33 PM
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Heck, I don't know.

I believe that most things on a bike can be fixed. Chew up a derailleur, and buy a new one.

I buy almost all of my bikes, and many of the components used. I believe I can get a better deal on a used bike than people get on new department store bikes.

But, others have a different opinion, and like the bright, new, and flashy stuff. Perhaps used stuff is a sign of poverty... So, a used $10K bike would be looked down upon when one can buy a new $100 bike.
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Old 07-24-18, 01:57 PM
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Hmmm... You can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves in to...

Maybe downplay the financial burden when you guys are together? I know I balk when it comes to the price of components and new bikes!

If you're handy, and since you're better informed, you could make him a quality bike. But that's risky. I do something similar by buying wine or a bottle of hooch for someone because I really like it. The danger is emotional investment. In spite of myself, I do take it personally when someone hates something I've done for or given to them.

My mom hates fish, but I make great fish tacos, so I try to make them for her only to have her turn her nose up and not even try...

Why did I feel like I wanted to change her mind? Personal risk vs. reward. If she liked them I would have felt great! I would have my cooking validated and maybe shared something I like and am proud of. Her not trying them was a hit to my pride because I get to thinking about the best case scenario then start to expect it, it's dumb, but I do. But I knew the risk was there and tried anyway...

Is that making sense?
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Old 07-24-18, 02:05 PM
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Another thing about bikes... To many people all bikes and components look alike.

I've had friends say they'd give me a bike just like mine... .. well, almost... At least it had drop bars.

I suppose I could try to educate a person the difference between sub-tourney level Shimano parts, and super record Campagnolo parts.

Then again, some of that may also seem rude, as if one is bragging about one's own bike while putting down another person's bike.

People's riding is different too. I'm still on track for 7000 to 8000 miles this year. I'd be glad to talk bikes to anybody interested in doing that. But, many people may think 100 miles in a year is a good year.

Thus bike needs may be entirely different.

Many parts "falling off" is due to maintenance issues, not necessarily the parts.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:06 PM
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ask him out to a 50+ miler group event ride... Others surrounding them with shared passion will either exist or not. Peer to peer knowledge goes far, good or bad..

or

show them the window to replacement parts to there specific bike. The upgrades will slowly grasp them before they realize they've just upgraded to a whole new bike...
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Old 07-24-18, 02:12 PM
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People make their own choices. The best we can do is suggest and move on but too many want to force others to think their way or get upset when people don't see the things the way we do.

I would forget about what the neighbor thinks about my bikes and move on to something more important like what I'm having for lunch.



Originally Posted by speyfitter
What are some things you have done to help others see the light?
Preach the Gospel. Use words when necessary.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 07-24-18 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:38 PM
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Who cares if he thinks you spent too much on your bike? As long as you are all enjoying riding, that's what really counts. If he doesn't mind going and buying a new bike every so often to replace one that broke down, then so be it.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:42 PM
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I wouldn't offer advice to a neighbor unless it was requested.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: "One man's light is another man's descent into darkness, so let each man choose what lights his way."
This.

I have a couple rules about helping other people "see the light." One is that I have to be invited to do so. Two is I have to see the possibility of success. And, three is you don't get to screw up my life.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:49 PM
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Really this is as others have said of little importance. A subtle way, just live by example...you and your family continue enjoying your bikes.

He will learn from experience that he will learn from experience.
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Old 07-24-18, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Another thing about bikes... To many people all bikes and components look alike.
To this point....I am a car guy. Others are not. I know a lot about cars. And, motorcycles actually. But, I digress. A friend of mine has some Ford mini-SUV. She opined that it feels very "powerful" to her and so it is pretty much like my Fiesta ST. Uh.....no.
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Old 07-24-18, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
This.

I have a couple rules about helping other people "see the light." One is that I have to be invited to do so. Two is I have to see the possibility of success. And, three is you don't get to screw up my life.
Haha...well said!
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Old 07-24-18, 06:11 PM
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I have an analogy. I have bought custom bikes, Made in America, for my new bike purchases. They last me a long time because...….well, they were built just to my requirements - fit-wise and purpose-wise. I frequently recommend people buy a custom to fit their needs exactly. Every time there are people who respond, 'Custom bikes are BS; and the proof is that I've purchased 10 off-the-shelf bikes in the last 3 years that only required some changes to fit me well' .

edit: I am not a bike snob. I am bike frugal.
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Old 07-24-18, 06:27 PM
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You can't reason with an idiot.

You can't reason with an idiot so why bother. It doesn't make him smarter and just irritates you. He sounds exactly like the father of a boy in my Scout Troop who attempted cycling merit badge on a brand new Walmart bike. Several of the avid adult riders who run the program advised the father to spend a little more and buy one from a bike shop but he is one of those people who knows all and is incredibly wise (in his own mind). The result was a bike which did fall apart on the first ride and a kid who gave up after the second ride on his wonderful bike that weighed half of his own weight. It only took two returns to get one bike which would stay together for a 10 mile ride. BTW, this same dad would spare no expense for his own toys.
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Old 07-24-18, 07:03 PM
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I don't even try. When I used to work at a bike shop, people always thought their $300 entry level road bike was the same as my Raleigh Pro.

Maybe let him try your bike and it might convince him but really he will just think that it is the same as his bike.
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Old 07-24-18, 07:13 PM
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You sound like my neighbors. Early this year I bought a new car, a BMW 530i. It's a great car, and I love it. But my neighbors are kind of snobby, the guy next door thinks it's a little small (he wife drives a Cayenne, he drives a G Wagon). The other neighbor has two Maseratis, a black one for himself, and a white one for his wife. Though I like cars, I'm quite happy with my "cheap" BMW.
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Old 07-24-18, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by VegasTriker
You can't reason with an idiot so why bother. It doesn't make him smarter and just irritates you. He sounds exactly like the father of a boy in my Scout Troop who attempted cycling merit badge on a brand new Walmart bike. Several of the avid adult riders who run the program advised the father to spend a little more and buy one from a bike shop but he is one of those people who knows all and is incredibly wise (in his own mind). The result was a bike which did fall apart on the first ride and a kid who gave up after the second ride on his wonderful bike that weighed half of his own weight. It only took two returns to get one bike which would stay together for a 10 mile ride. BTW, this same dad would spare no expense for his own toys.
Can't reason with an ideologue or zealot who makes up stories, or grossly exaggerates and stretches the truth to fit his personal bias, agenda and/or self interest.
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Old 07-24-18, 07:53 PM
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I wouldn’t expect to think that ways in which my neighbor spends his money are all good choices, and vice versa.
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Old 07-24-18, 08:03 PM
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Chances are, you’re not goin to change his mind unless you could calculate how much money he’s spent replacing bikes or you talk him into a good hilly 50 miles ride with you.
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Old 07-24-18, 08:14 PM
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I drive a 16 year old beater Ford to work, I park in the garage next to my cube mate who always has a sweet newer 5 series or similar performance sedan every couple of years. We both make the round trip and neither of our commutes are limited by our respective cars. Who says we need to see the others light on what is better or even define better. We don't and actually talk about cars.

In the end, someone that puts a lot of thought and reasoning into justifing their decision or conclusion sometimes has a hard time understanding how someone else could possibly come to a different decision. Who cares what someone else is doing and why. They either don't care or have different reasons that you just do not agree with. It does not make your decision any less valid.

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Old 07-24-18, 08:25 PM
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No good deed goes unpunished. Don't try to convince him of anything. Once he spends more, he'll blame you for getting him to waste money if he stops riding it. If you like this guy so much you just want to turn him on to the pleasure of a better bike - if it is strictly a matter of sharing something you like with someone you like so well you want to share that good thing - do this: Bring tools along when you ride with him. Sooner or later if you're riding together frequently he'll have some trouble. Fix his bike, and swap bikes for a little while "so you can feel if you got it adjusted just right." Ride just far enough to test the gears and brakes and so on, watch to see if he works the brakes and gears on your bike. As soon as he has a chance to get a little feel for your bike, swap back. Do not make any indication that you are criticizing his choice. Don't ask him how he likes your bike. Ask him how his bike feels better with the adjustments. If he says, "Great" after swapping bikes, just let it drop.
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Old 07-24-18, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DanBraden
My mom hates fish, but I make great fish tacos, so I try to make them for her only to have her turn her nose up and not even try...

Why did I feel like I wanted to change her mind? Personal risk vs. reward. If she liked them I would have felt great! I would have my cooking validated and maybe shared something I like and am proud of. Her not trying them was a hit to my pride because I get to thinking about the best case scenario then start to expect it, it's dumb, but I do. But I knew the risk was there and tried anyway...

Is that making sense?
Well maybe... All I’ll say if if you happen to pass by the SF Bay Area and bring me fish tacos, I promise I won’t complain


Geoff
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Old 07-24-18, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by speyfitter
Anyways - I have a neighbour. And he seems to have this attitude like all I'm doing is getting "hosed" by spending the money I have on my bikes. He buys department store bikes for him and his kids.
This is all I needed to read. You are NOT going to get through to this guy no matter what you say or do. He may spend $2,000 on a backyard grill, but go cheap on bikes. People have different priorities on where to spend their hard earned money and they have to come to their own conclusions about bikes, cars, monthly fitness club membership fees, hi-fi equipment, clothes, etc., etc., etc.

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