malcala622

Buddy of mine bought this bicycle but cant seem to get an ID and neither can I. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

ramzilla

Wow. Nice high end frame. Definitely 80's vintage. Curious "Gumout" label. Just guessing but, looks made in Italy. Either that or, Kuwahara was trying to duplicate a DeRosa.

clubman 

So damned hot. My size. Nothing else matters. (Centurion influence?)

Piff 

Pass. Just look at that rear derailleur cable.

Also, how many world class bikes does your buddy have that he casually leans them around like that. Yes, I'm green with envy
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CO_Hoya 

I think the bottom bracket cutout is familiar, and certainly distinctive.

I just can’t place it at the moment . . .

Insidious C. 

There is an example of that BB cutout in the drain hole thread. Nishiki.

cudak888 

unworthy1 posted an identical BB cutout in the Drain Hole thread from a Nishiki O.N.P. - but the frame details aren't of an ONP, nor is the serial number similar: https://www.bikeforums.net/14625932-post69.html

-Kurt

unworthy1

True and true! I don't know what other JP used that BB shell but I bet @T-Mar may have some serial number insights, I recall there were a few other "Cinelli clones" made in Japan besides Windsor's LATER offerings which I think used Tange tubing....so this one's a head-scratcher!

Lascauxcaveman 

...and a head-turner. A lot to like going on there.

MauriceMoss

This frame looks an awful lot like the Miki built frames that were sold as Centurion Professional and sometimes as Miki Road Racer (although with horizontal dropouts):










Other frames that share characteristics with the Mikis are some Takahashi Sannow labeled ones:








The difference here is that all of these have the Cinelli-esque 3 hole lug cutouts rather than the hearts.


Also, there is a slight difference in the serial number format between the Miki/Centurion frames and some of the Sannow ones and the mystery frame. One of the Sannows and this mystery frame are both missing the year digit between the 'M' and the fortnight (if it is a fortnight indicator). Not sure what this means. Maybe T-Mar has some insights?


Aside from the Centurions, the Mikis, the Sannows and the previously mentioned Nishiki ONPs, I've only seen this style of bb shell cutout on a Bridgestone built frame (labeled as Grand-Velo and using an entirely different serial number format):






As a side note, Sante Pogliaghi used to do bb cutouts similar to these; I wonder if that was an influence on builders at Miki (and BStone).

The Golden Boy 

Man- I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a 019 frame- I think I've only 'read' about them.

Is this like a 753 or is it 'dangerously thin' tubing?

madpogue 

Yeah I wonder if that's why there are so few braze-ons.

Wildwood 

I've owned 3 bikes with Ishi022 and liked them all, currently have only 1.
Have never seen, but always swore I would buy any 019 frame in my size.

I have viewed a catalogue page that listed an Ishi017 which is what I believe constituted 'dangerously thin'.
Maybe even a tubeset labeled 015.which was for .... time trialing and record attempts.

It was online somewhere. I'll quickly search again.
Well that was easy!

unworthy1

@MauriceMoss again for the WIN, I do believe! And there WAS another JP made bike that used that BB shell aside from the wide range that MM has posted above: Fuji had one model that used it, but it did not feature all the "Cinelli" details (like the 3-holes in main lugs) and had a different "fastback" seat cluster also not so "Cinelli". However it's been widely said the Fuji DID use Ishiwata tubing in many of their frames. And as Wildwood points out above, Ishiwata went 'way lighter than 019! I thought there was also one step heavier than 022: 024? Or did I imagine that one?

Wildwood 

Was there a Gumout cycling Team? (maybe my mind crossing over into motorsports)

T-Mar

That BB shell was a standard, off the shelf item and not proprietary to any one manufacturer. It was used at least as early as the mid-1970s and at least as late as the mid-1980s. You''ll find it on upper end freame manufactured by Bridgestone, Kawamura, Miki and Fuji (Design Series). However, the serial number format does not match any of these and on the basis of the serial number format, Sannow is the leading candidate, despite the discrepancy in the lug cutouts.

noobinsf 

Yes, the chart looks later, given it has a MTB specific tube type. 024 was labeled as a “heavy touring” set and appeared on things like the Ross signature, or possibly my Campania Pro. T-Mar thought this was likely on my Pro due to the 27.0 seat post.

The op’s bike is hot!

T-Mar

Besides 024, there was also 026 (plain gauge CroMo for heavy touring and track).Both date back to the boom era. In the late 1970s they introduced 0245 and 0265 (single butted and double butted hi-tensile sets respectively) and 025 (combination CrMo and hi-tensile, plain gauge with double butted down tube), There was also a unique 020 (CrMo double butted with oval butts, so the butts could be oriented in the direction of maximum stress).

noobinsf 

malcala622 , I'd love to see updates when your friend gets around to fixing this one up...

steve sumner

ramzilla said: definitely 80s vintage. I say definitely 70s bcuz by the 80s
shift cable routing was under the BB

T-Mar

The year of transition varied significantly from manufacturer to manufacturer. For instance, my Scapin had cables running under the BB shell in 1974, yet Specialized were still routing them on top of the BB shell of their Allez models as late as 1986. While the sample size is small, based on what I know of the serial format, I suspect the OP's bicycle is 1980.

Evotechnik

Did anyone id this bike?

unworthy1

Yep, thanks to Maurice Moss and T-Mar this is most likely a Sannow, good enough for me to say "case closed".

Evotechnik

I bought this bike a few months back and came across this thread. Glad to know what it is.

malcala622

My friend ended up selling this bike locally since it wasn't his size. It ended up to someone 5 miles from me who flipped it for 4x the buying price.