capt_velo

Ti-Raleigh Team 753 40th anniversary replica review

It's a little pricey, but I like the effort. This doesn't make up for discontinuing the Grand Vitesse though.

I thought this part was really interesting

merziac

Plenty here to like regardless of its shortcomings, perceived or otherwise.

We should embrace any and all efforts by any company that continues to keep the flame going, most of them are happy to abandon most of it.

My hats off to Raleigh for sticking with us.

Spendy, yes, no I didn't get one, thought long and hard about it, biggest one is too small, still should have.

Actually lucky my advanced link didn't work, I'd probably have one of the frames sitting here otherwise.

embankmentlb

I am really just not a fan of retro or reproduction bikes.
They usually have none of the redeeming qualities that made the original bike cool in the first place.
This one is no exception.

Mr. Spadoni 

Happy to see the bike but the reviewer? What was he thinking? Of course it has cloth tape. Of course it has toe straps. Saying those things make the bike less desirable is like reviewing a car built to specs from the 50’s and then complaining about having to use the choke and the clutch.

cudak888 

I was about to say - it may not be the original, but it appeared to be a very worthy KOF (and potentially a better deal for some than an original SBDU frameset), until I took a good hard look at the main triangle.





These photos are from two different sources. And you know what I see? A sloping top tube. Ever so slight, but it's there.

I can't for the life of me understand why they took something so nearly perfect and ruined it this way. The non-aero brakes and downtube shifters are proof enough that this replica was intended to have no concessions to modernity if it could avoid it...so why ruin the one critical thing that us retrogrouches look for in a replica like this?

-Kurt

Doug Fattic 

My guess is that the investment cast lugs that are still available have steeper angles than the original design of the frame. The easiest and best way to make them work without blacksmithing them into submission is to slope the tube an ever so slight amount. Only someone as sharp eyed as you would notice it. And the few that do would probably not care.

For the market it is intended (somebody old enough to have wanted one 40 years ago), a slightly sloping tube is most likely an advantage. It raises the top of the head tube a slight amount so the handlebars can be just a little bit higher without looking as goofy. Those in their 60's and 70's aren't as lean and flexible as they were in 1980 and will most likely prefer higher handlebars. A slightly sloping top tube is a trick some of my older frame building class students use when designing their frames. Using lugs with steeper angles than their design makes it easier for them to fit and braze their frame.

P!N20

I was hoping you were wrong, but you're right.

merziac

They talked about doing it on purpose, I think to maintain the geo on the other sizes.

There is a factory video where they address it some.


Looks like it was done to minimize the range they wanted to do, sloping the TT would let them say "oh a 61 will be ok if you need a 62-63" and still accommodate 59-60 as well.

cudak888 

I don't buy it. Ceeway has always had a selection of investment cast lugs designed for level top tubes and 73/73 angles, and Fuji's 2009 Connoisseur was a traditional, level-top-tube lugged production frame (IIRC, 73/73 too).

I disagree. This thing has non-aero brakes, cotton bar tape, downtube shifters, a threaded 1" headset, and the shape of the bars means that if you want any long-term comfort, you're going into the drops. This is not going to be a comfortable machine for the aging road cyclists that remembered these when they were new. If that was the intent of this reissue, they would have at least spec'ed it with classic-inspired aero levers.

If comfort is a priority, they failed by being too accurate to the original in regards to components.
If accuracy is a priority, they failed by sloping that top tube.

About the only folks they aren't going to tick off are those who're going to buy one and leave it in the box with the silly idea that it's an "investment."

-Kurt

cudak888 

A slick corporate video isn't going to convince me that they're putting glitter over a crap decision.

They've gone through all the effort of making a bike limited to 250 units, and even dusted Reynolds 753 out of the closet to do it. The least they could have done was not violate one of the principle rules of C&V in making a lugged steel frameset that's aspiring to be a fairly hardcore replica.

Now I'm curious if the 2014/15 replica is sloped or not. If anything, the brifters and bar tape - though by no means period accurate - make a lot more sense for the target market Doug is speaking of. Head angle on this 54(?)cm example looks a bit slack though - a concession for toe overlap? Who knows - can't find a photo of a larger one from this particular reissue series.




-Kurt

merziac

I'm not justifying it or drinking the kool-aid, just saying they tried to gloss over it, I wholeheartedly agree with you and like I said am glad my link didn't work since I may have momentarily lost my mind when they launched.

Same BS goes for the dropouts that are slab steak thick ugly to conform to "safety standards" since all before and since have maimed and killed so many.

There certainly is too much wrong here but at least they tried, more than you can say for many of the rest.

Guess I'm just sentimental, or just mental at least.

NatusEstInSuht

Looks great! A nice modern update on a classic bicycle. Raleigh has done a good job on this and I'm sure they'll quickly sell all 250 copies.

cudak888 

No worries . And I almost did something about that "buy now" button too. I've wanted something very red, very yellow, and very Raleigh for a while now. Those oddball French 531 frames that worked their way here are quite enticing too - I don't need an SBDU, and I don't think I should be cranking on vintage 753.

They did try, but all things considered, it really leaves me shaking my head. It just feels as if they went to 99% with this replica and then told the top tube to take a hike.

-Kurt

P.S.: I don't mind thick dropouts, even if they're thicker than the standard 1010 fare - I think it's a knee-jerk reaction against how thin drops tend to suggest "stamped and cheap bike boom" for anything after the mid-1960s.

zukahn1 

I will agree the short slopping top tube and silly way short rear triangle basically ruin this bike.

cudak888 

The rear triangle doesn't bug me. The tires on the demo bike look like 25C's (or fat 23's), which would contribute to it being a close fit with the seattube.

In comparison to a '75 Pro Mk.IV and a '78 Pro Mk.V (both with 23C's - the V has tubulars), it's not far off:



I bet there are much tighter SBDUs out there.

-Kurt

ShannonM

I find it even more offensive that the writer assumes that his readers all wear camelbaks, since they'd crash and die if they tried to use a water bottle.

--Shannon

merziac

Maybe, the same slick corporate video talks about the safety standards dictating that too so who knows.

mstateglfr 

Tough crowd. Or tough minor peanut gallery, I guess.

Sloping top tube that is a couple degrees. Oh well.
Flat crown instead of sloping. Oh well.
Larger dropouts due to legal compliance. Oh well.

Maybe these things add up to not wanting to buy the bike because it isnt close enough to the original.
It also has a 2x10 drivetrain as well as 130mm dropouts, so it clearly isn't an exact replica.


It'd be neat if the US version of Raleigh did anything cool like this over the last few years. Instead, they just seem to recycle the same half neat designs and let them run their course until selling out the stock.

merziac

All true enough, and these deals are never not costly but the high pricing of not really retro parts, pieces and a frame that could probably be built better from scratch for less makes it very challenging to get on board.

Like I said, I'm glad they went here as many won't but am glad I didn't lose my mind when it came out.

Salamandrine 

"Period correct plumbing" ??? later referred to as cro mo. Like they are really going to create a new alloy just for this bike. Why not just admit they used 725, which is basically identical to 753 in physical properties.

The terrible set up in the first picture of the review didn't exactly give me confidence. It wouldn't have been that hard to find someone familiar enough with vintage race bikes to correctly route cables, position levers, level the seat, and choose the right size frame.

Drillium Dude 

$3222.42 for that? Lol.

These retro-flashback rigs are a joke. For that kind of money, I am not impressed with a spec sheet which includes "Retro style 50/39T chainset" or "Classic aero post". Sounds like they outfitted this with the same wonky Frankenbike gruppo cues from Bianchi's grossly-overpriced L'Eroica tribute bike. I wonder who the target audience is, honestly.

I know there are a lot of fans here, I'm just not one of them. The component spec is my biggest gripe regarding any of these modern retro bikes, but as Kurt noted, the sloping top tube is a no-go as well. Meh.

DD

P!N20

To be fair, sloping top tube aside, if the component choice isn't your thing it is available as a frame only. (Well, 50 of them are.) Although I was looking forward to seeing what you could do with that bench drill of yours

Johno59

They ship the 753 tubing to Taiwan and get some poor bastard on 5 bucks an hour to make it coz instead of making a decent profit they want to make an obscene profit. It won't work.
Interesting they go the Full Cleveland on dress code for the CEOs in the promo to enhance the retro look. LOL, back in the day even the factory foreman wore a suit.
I never liked the Milk Race livery but I wouldn't have thought a horizontal top tube was going to break the bank.
Who under 50 wants a poor replica of a 1980s steel bike. If someone wants light steel there are plenty of new 853 Reynolds bikes for less that don't falsely claim to be retro.

Drillium Dude 

An honest comparison of old against new (frame/fork only):


DD

P!N20

What a pedant...he'd fit in well here.

Geez those dropouts are pretty ugly, huh?