msl109

Hi folks - finally broke down and bought a new set of Time Xpresso pedals. Went to install them and realized I couldn't use them. My crankset is a Topline - the inner face of the crankarm is closed off - the socket is not accessible. (It's probably done that way to strengthen the arm, as it tapers to a rather narrow end.) I don't want to change out the cranks (they're really like new) and BB. But it seems while I was sleeping, many (most?) pedal manufacturers did away with wrench flats on axles, and the only way to install is with an Allen wrench. So my Time pedals and many more won't work on these cranks. What I'm looking for is a recommendation for a lightweight modern pedal that has wrench flats for installation. Would prefer to stick with the same general type of cleat. Thanks for your help!

JohnDThompson 

I'm not familiar with how Topline does it, but old-school cranks with closed pedal eyes (e.g. TA, Campagnolo, etc.) used press-fit caps to close the pedal eye. If that's what Topline does, perhaps push out the caps, install the pedals and (optionally) press the caps back in place. Failing that, you could drill a hole through the piece to give access to an Allen wrench.

msl109

If only there were press fit caps - no, it's one piece, and drilling would probably compromise the structural integrity of the crank. I'd change the crank before doing that. I can sell the pedals for most of what I paid or use them on another bike. I'm just looking for an alternative pedal that has wrench flats. Here's the crank end in the pic below.
They compromised - gave up the open end for aesthetics or possibly aerodynamics. I doubt any company would do this today. Then (about '94?) most pedals had flats in addition to an allen socket, if they had any Allen socket.

Closed inside face of Topline crank - no Allen-wrench-only pedals allowed ....

Crankycrank

Speedplay. Not the same type of cleat the OP wants but lightweight and most if not all their pedals have wrench flats. SPEEDPLAY : HIGH PERFORMANCE PEDALS

msl109

Good call - Speedplays are what's on there now - I just don't love them.

gsa103

Most of the lower tier Shimano pedals still have wrench flats. It's only the Ultegra/DA level that have dropped them (for weight).

JohnDThompson 

Drilling an access hole is unlikely to be a structural concern; virtually every other crank on the market has fully open pedal eyes, after all.

msl109

And unfortunately, that's what I'm looking for - it's a 17.5 lb Ti Serotta that I don't want to make any heavier.

msl109

It may be hard to tell from the picture, but there isn't much material at all surrounding the socket and they're known to crack when overtorqued and ridden hard. See pic below

Cracked end of Topline cranks (not the one I'm posting about) Just to illustrate why Topline may have chosen to close the back - reinforcement.
My hunch is they made the sockets blind in part to compensate for the narrow tapered ends.

Ferrouscious 

It absolutely is on these cranks. They're 300 grams! That's roughly the same as the hollowed out Cannondale Hollowgram SiSL2 cranks that are bonded together... Aluminum arms, remember.

Amt0571

Most non high-end shimano pedals have them.

IMO, all pedals should have them. It's lots of fun to remove a stuck pedal that only has an allen socket that gets rounded with a minuscule amount of force.

JohnDThompson 

Your picture shows a crack at the spindle opening, not the pedal opening. The square broach for the spindle creates a stress riser from which a crack can propagate. A round opening at the pedal eye is far less likely to create such a stress riser.

msl109

Right you are - I didn't catch the square taper in that pic and had the wrong end of the dog bone - indeed the square broach would be a more likely inroad for that sort of failure, but that type of crack is what I was concerned with...

If this were my only crankset and I had no option, I'd think about drilling it, but it's barely used, a really nicely machined piece, and I'd rather swap it out to another bike where I use quill pedals and clips.

Still would like to know if anyone knows of a modern Look or similar pedal that still has wrench flats. I have no problem with a low mileage used older set from 2,3, 5 years back if it's still relatively light.

msl109

[QUOTE=Ferrouscious;21755979]It absolutely is on these cranks. They're 300 grams! That's roughly the same as the hollowed out Cannondale Hollowgram SiSL2 cranks that are bonded together... Aluminum arms, remember.[/build.

That's what I was thinking - aluminum machined to be ultra lightweight, even by today's standards. The cranks belonged to a friend of mine who built himself a 19lb 58cm steel machine (Ritchey Logic Prestige tubing) in '94. He moved to Seattle within a month of the build, changed the cranks out for a Campy triple for the terrain there. He kept the Toplines under the bed until he gifted them to me a couple years back for my Serotta bulld, which I've so far kept carbon-free But I'm ok with carbon pedals.

msl109

Agreed - it's always good to have a second option when there's a potential a part may become stuck. I've had very well greased threads on a new pedal and new crank seize by the end of one season, without any water exposure or overtightening during installation.
And I wish my old quill pedals had the Allen socket in addition to the flat!
I think the change in the practice is mainly about aesthetics. Yes, I suppose it could be argued that wrench flats are less aerodynamic, but I'll go out on a limb and guess that's negligible overall for 99 percent of us?

JaccoW

With the amount of trouble I have had with removing some pedals even with wrench flats I wouldn't want to deal with allen key only pedals.

msl109

Absolutely. I like the Allen sockets, but only as a second option or for convenience in installation. Perhaps we can start petitioning manufacturers. Wonder how many mechanics have strong feelings about this?

gsa103

It's about weight. The extra metal for the wrench flats probably adds ~15-20g to the pedal, compared with a tapered spindle. A hex socket removes weight. And there's plenty of options, if you don't care about weight. For reference, a 105 pedal is 265g, Ultegra 248g, DA 228g. And RS500 pedals (with the wrench flats) is 320g. So Shimano could make a DA pedal with flats, but it would likely weigh as much or more than a 105 pedal.