Would the tour be better without radio communication?
07-14-18, 02:37 AM
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Would the tour be better without radio communication?
would the tour de france be better/more exciting/more open to watch without the radio communication between riders and the team car(s)? discuss...
07-14-18, 07:35 AM
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For a while maybe. Then we'd just get used to whatever crap that causes and think it needs livening up again. Perhaps they should ride fixies!
07-14-18, 09:40 AM
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I suspect we would see a lot more chaos and less organization from the riders for sure. It would definitely spread out the standings.
07-14-18, 09:44 AM
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This topic has been discussed ad nauseam for about 2 decades, pretty since internet forums were first created.
07-14-18, 09:45 AM
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Hang-on, let's my call back to me team car and ask.
07-14-18, 10:39 AM
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Didn’t they try that in 2009? The teams didn’t go for it.
The Tour de France was created to sell newspapers. Nothing like Blood, crashes, men at the extreme edges of endurance, and death to attract eyeballs... As Oscar Lapize said of the Tour organizers on the Col du Tourmalet in 1910, “Vous êtes des assassins! Oui, des assassins!”
Radios make it a little safer.
The Tour de France was created to sell newspapers. Nothing like Blood, crashes, men at the extreme edges of endurance, and death to attract eyeballs... As Oscar Lapize said of the Tour organizers on the Col du Tourmalet in 1910, “Vous êtes des assassins! Oui, des assassins!”
Radios make it a little safer.
07-14-18, 03:37 PM
#9
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The race radio Paul is always listening to. Is it in French and do all teams also have a separate frequency???
07-16-18, 08:13 PM
#10
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07-17-18, 12:33 PM
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The question is, how much communication would need to be removed to have whatever effect people think it would have?
There are already many series below Pro-Continental or Continental which don't allow radios ... but they still have team cars come up along side the riders so the team managers can yell instructions. So ... should that be banned? Easy to do.
How about the guy on the moto with the chalkboard listing gaps .... would the race be more exciting if the breakaway didn't know how far ahead it was?
Then again, that can also be seen in action at some lower levels of racing.
What sort of "excitement" would you hope/expect would come from banning radios, specifically? What would you find more "exciting"? (Not looking to start a fight here, please---I really want to know.)
Seriously, ... if you can define what "increased excitement" might be we could brainstorm about it at least (to no point except to flagellate our imaginations) but we need to know what you think ""more exciting" would mean.
Personally I found Stages Nine and ten to be about as exciting as a bike race could be.
There are already many series below Pro-Continental or Continental which don't allow radios ... but they still have team cars come up along side the riders so the team managers can yell instructions. So ... should that be banned? Easy to do.
How about the guy on the moto with the chalkboard listing gaps .... would the race be more exciting if the breakaway didn't know how far ahead it was?
Then again, that can also be seen in action at some lower levels of racing.
What sort of "excitement" would you hope/expect would come from banning radios, specifically? What would you find more "exciting"? (Not looking to start a fight here, please---I really want to know.)
Seriously, ... if you can define what "increased excitement" might be we could brainstorm about it at least (to no point except to flagellate our imaginations) but we need to know what you think ""more exciting" would mean.
Personally I found Stages Nine and ten to be about as exciting as a bike race could be.
07-17-18, 01:19 PM
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We so need a "Like" button on these pages.
07-18-18, 12:06 AM
#14
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would we all agree between the extreme weather protocol and the race radios, the flow of the race is more predictable?
07-18-18, 03:37 AM
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"predictable" in this case does not eliminate "exciting." Plenty of sports are predictable. They all follow rules. Some of the games/meets/matches are exciting, some aren't.
I have yet to see a baseball player use a football tackle on a base-runner. That would be exciting.
I have yet to see a baseball player use a football tackle on a base-runner. That would be exciting.
07-18-18, 04:09 AM
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There will always be a breakaway …. There will be a chase if it is a sprint stage, and maybe depending on who is in the break, on a climbing stage.
A few things … in a stage race, energy output really matters. So …. The breakaway might be let go, as on Stage Ten, because it would be crazy to chase non-GC contenders and wear out the teams … no benefit to it.
Later in the race this same thing happens sometimes even on flat stages … the breakaway is let go, because the no one wants to burn out the team chasing when the GC is not at stake.
With no communication, teams would spend the first two-thirds of the race chasing every break …. They wouldn’t know who was in a break, who was bridging across, who attacked later. Also, the teams wouldn’t know if the break got a minute- or a ten-minute lead … so they couldn’t take a chance.
So every race would be much harder, and very few breaks would be allowed away. And all the teams would be burned out much sooner. The last week of Grands Tours, the riders would be crippled.
Likely there would be more crashes, because at no time would the peloton be able to relax. Every stage would be like the first third of Stage Nine---everyone fighting for every inch of pavement, and everyone colliding, because the only way to control the race would be to ride on the front.
And … after a while … riders would adapt to having no radios—after all, for most of the sport’s history, there were no radios—and then races would take a new shape … which would in time become equally predictable.
As I Noted Above ….. There are lots of races where radios are not allowed. If you wnt to see what a race without radios is like, watch one. See what you think.
But even those races have the guy with the tote-board listing the gap to the break, and team cars with coaches telling the riders what’s up. You’d have to get down to the regional level to get to races where there was no communication on the road at all …. But the bonus is, you can watch those races for free, and likely right in your area.
I don’t know exactly how racing would change. I don’t know how much communication is “right”. Gove the breakaway riders and the peloton the gap to the break, and nothing else? No communication between team car and riders, so no tactics?
Right now riders in the break can drop back to support a team mate’s attack from the peloton—that would be gone. Also, if a couple riders tried to bridge up to the break, a team wouldn’t know if they made it or not. Teams wouldn’t know what a rider had a crash or a mechanical. I don’t know if that would hurt or improve the racing.
I do thinkm, that with or without radios, riders would figure out how to do whatever worked, and the races would be equally predictable … after all, they Want races to be predictable. They want to know the best tactics for any situation and to use those tactics. So no matter what, teams will figure out a certain approach for all thelikely situations and keep using it … just as they do today.
A few things … in a stage race, energy output really matters. So …. The breakaway might be let go, as on Stage Ten, because it would be crazy to chase non-GC contenders and wear out the teams … no benefit to it.
Later in the race this same thing happens sometimes even on flat stages … the breakaway is let go, because the no one wants to burn out the team chasing when the GC is not at stake.
With no communication, teams would spend the first two-thirds of the race chasing every break …. They wouldn’t know who was in a break, who was bridging across, who attacked later. Also, the teams wouldn’t know if the break got a minute- or a ten-minute lead … so they couldn’t take a chance.
So every race would be much harder, and very few breaks would be allowed away. And all the teams would be burned out much sooner. The last week of Grands Tours, the riders would be crippled.
Likely there would be more crashes, because at no time would the peloton be able to relax. Every stage would be like the first third of Stage Nine---everyone fighting for every inch of pavement, and everyone colliding, because the only way to control the race would be to ride on the front.
And … after a while … riders would adapt to having no radios—after all, for most of the sport’s history, there were no radios—and then races would take a new shape … which would in time become equally predictable.
As I Noted Above ….. There are lots of races where radios are not allowed. If you wnt to see what a race without radios is like, watch one. See what you think.
But even those races have the guy with the tote-board listing the gap to the break, and team cars with coaches telling the riders what’s up. You’d have to get down to the regional level to get to races where there was no communication on the road at all …. But the bonus is, you can watch those races for free, and likely right in your area.
I don’t know exactly how racing would change. I don’t know how much communication is “right”. Gove the breakaway riders and the peloton the gap to the break, and nothing else? No communication between team car and riders, so no tactics?
Right now riders in the break can drop back to support a team mate’s attack from the peloton—that would be gone. Also, if a couple riders tried to bridge up to the break, a team wouldn’t know if they made it or not. Teams wouldn’t know what a rider had a crash or a mechanical. I don’t know if that would hurt or improve the racing.
I do thinkm, that with or without radios, riders would figure out how to do whatever worked, and the races would be equally predictable … after all, they Want races to be predictable. They want to know the best tactics for any situation and to use those tactics. So no matter what, teams will figure out a certain approach for all thelikely situations and keep using it … just as they do today.
07-18-18, 05:54 AM
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"predictable" in this case does not eliminate "exciting." Plenty of sports are predictable. They all follow rules. Some of the games/meets/matches are exciting, some aren't.
I have yet to see a baseball player use a football tackle on a base-runner. That would be exciting.
I have yet to see a baseball player use a football tackle on a base-runner. That would be exciting.
07-18-18, 05:58 AM
#19
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There will always be a breakaway …. There will be a chase if it is a sprint stage, and maybe depending on who is in the break, on a climbing stage.
A few things … in a stage race, energy output really matters. So …. The breakaway might be let go, as on Stage Ten, because it would be crazy to chase non-GC contenders and wear out the teams … no benefit to it.
Later in the race this same thing happens sometimes even on flat stages … the breakaway is let go, because the no one wants to burn out the team chasing when the GC is not at stake.
With no communication, teams would spend the first two-thirds of the race chasing every break …. They wouldn’t know who was in a break, who was bridging across, who attacked later. Also, the teams wouldn’t know if the break got a minute- or a ten-minute lead … so they couldn’t take a chance.
So every race would be much harder, and very few breaks would be allowed away. And all the teams would be burned out much sooner. The last week of Grands Tours, the riders would be crippled.
Likely there would be more crashes, because at no time would the peloton be able to relax. Every stage would be like the first third of Stage Nine---everyone fighting for every inch of pavement, and everyone colliding, because the only way to control the race would be to ride on the front.
And … after a while … riders would adapt to having no radios—after all, for most of the sport’s history, there were no radios—and then races would take a new shape … which would in time become equally predictable.
As I Noted Above ….. There are lots of races where radios are not allowed. If you wnt to see what a race without radios is like, watch one. See what you think.
But even those races have the guy with the tote-board listing the gap to the break, and team cars with coaches telling the riders what’s up. You’d have to get down to the regional level to get to races where there was no communication on the road at all …. But the bonus is, you can watch those races for free, and likely right in your area.
I don’t know exactly how racing would change. I don’t know how much communication is “right”. Gove the breakaway riders and the peloton the gap to the break, and nothing else? No communication between team car and riders, so no tactics?
Right now riders in the break can drop back to support a team mate’s attack from the peloton—that would be gone. Also, if a couple riders tried to bridge up to the break, a team wouldn’t know if they made it or not. Teams wouldn’t know what a rider had a crash or a mechanical. I don’t know if that would hurt or improve the racing.
I do thinkm, that with or without radios, riders would figure out how to do whatever worked, and the races would be equally predictable … after all, they Want races to be predictable. They want to know the best tactics for any situation and to use those tactics. So no matter what, teams will figure out a certain approach for all thelikely situations and keep using it … just as they do today.
A few things … in a stage race, energy output really matters. So …. The breakaway might be let go, as on Stage Ten, because it would be crazy to chase non-GC contenders and wear out the teams … no benefit to it.
Later in the race this same thing happens sometimes even on flat stages … the breakaway is let go, because the no one wants to burn out the team chasing when the GC is not at stake.
With no communication, teams would spend the first two-thirds of the race chasing every break …. They wouldn’t know who was in a break, who was bridging across, who attacked later. Also, the teams wouldn’t know if the break got a minute- or a ten-minute lead … so they couldn’t take a chance.
So every race would be much harder, and very few breaks would be allowed away. And all the teams would be burned out much sooner. The last week of Grands Tours, the riders would be crippled.
Likely there would be more crashes, because at no time would the peloton be able to relax. Every stage would be like the first third of Stage Nine---everyone fighting for every inch of pavement, and everyone colliding, because the only way to control the race would be to ride on the front.
And … after a while … riders would adapt to having no radios—after all, for most of the sport’s history, there were no radios—and then races would take a new shape … which would in time become equally predictable.
As I Noted Above ….. There are lots of races where radios are not allowed. If you wnt to see what a race without radios is like, watch one. See what you think.
But even those races have the guy with the tote-board listing the gap to the break, and team cars with coaches telling the riders what’s up. You’d have to get down to the regional level to get to races where there was no communication on the road at all …. But the bonus is, you can watch those races for free, and likely right in your area.
I don’t know exactly how racing would change. I don’t know how much communication is “right”. Gove the breakaway riders and the peloton the gap to the break, and nothing else? No communication between team car and riders, so no tactics?
Right now riders in the break can drop back to support a team mate’s attack from the peloton—that would be gone. Also, if a couple riders tried to bridge up to the break, a team wouldn’t know if they made it or not. Teams wouldn’t know what a rider had a crash or a mechanical. I don’t know if that would hurt or improve the racing.
I do thinkm, that with or without radios, riders would figure out how to do whatever worked, and the races would be equally predictable … after all, they Want races to be predictable. They want to know the best tactics for any situation and to use those tactics. So no matter what, teams will figure out a certain approach for all thelikely situations and keep using it … just as they do today.
07-19-18, 02:14 PM
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