Riding in the lane
09-10-18, 08:01 AM
#26
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You will get some debate. There is a subforum: Advocacy & Safety dedicated to such discussions.
I also ride to the right most of the time. I just feel it is safer to ride where cars aren't driving. Plus, it takes less effort on their part to do collision avoidance if they don't properly anticipate the cyclist. Thus, it is safer for everyone including the vehicle driver, passengers, and other vehicles on the road.
It means that some do nothing, and whiz past at 50+ MPH, or try to squeeze past in a narrow lane. But, I also live another day.
My taking the lane occurs in a few situations.
Otherwise, I'm on the right.
I also ride to the right most of the time. I just feel it is safer to ride where cars aren't driving. Plus, it takes less effort on their part to do collision avoidance if they don't properly anticipate the cyclist. Thus, it is safer for everyone including the vehicle driver, passengers, and other vehicles on the road.
It means that some do nothing, and whiz past at 50+ MPH, or try to squeeze past in a narrow lane. But, I also live another day.
My taking the lane occurs in a few situations.
- Zero traffic. I'll move over when cars come.
- Making left hand turns.
- Anticipating a left hand turn off of a 2 lane roundabout ahead.
- Keeping up with traffic, or even passing traffic.
- A few rare situations where the road doesn't accommodate bikes & cars well, generally low speed urban roads, often with parked cars along the side.
Otherwise, I'm on the right.
In the more general sense, stay to the far right of the through traffic lane (or out of the lane if there is a bike lane or shoulder), until there is a specific reason to be further left in the lane.
09-10-18, 08:22 AM
#27
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Is "I don't want them to pass me" a good enough reason? I think that's the crux of the dispute that usually emerges from these threads.
FWIW, in general I do not believe in controlling other traffic on public roads. However, I will take the entire lane while waiting in single lane queues approaching stop signs because cars will often try to crowd me out and steal my spot in line if I don't. Human nature dictates that people try to close any gap they see when driving in traffic, and I have to fight back a little bit against this tendency, or they will simply roll right over me like I'm a flattened dead cat if I don't.
But with regard to blocking people's path in the roadway because I don't think it's safe for them to pass, "F" that, I would sooner pull over and let them past me. That's a classic recipe for road rage, at least in my area it is. Of course, YMMV, and your local motorists may be more saintly than the ones I deal with every day (or Canadians).
FWIW, in general I do not believe in controlling other traffic on public roads. However, I will take the entire lane while waiting in single lane queues approaching stop signs because cars will often try to crowd me out and steal my spot in line if I don't. Human nature dictates that people try to close any gap they see when driving in traffic, and I have to fight back a little bit against this tendency, or they will simply roll right over me like I'm a flattened dead cat if I don't.
But with regard to blocking people's path in the roadway because I don't think it's safe for them to pass, "F" that, I would sooner pull over and let them past me. That's a classic recipe for road rage, at least in my area it is. Of course, YMMV, and your local motorists may be more saintly than the ones I deal with every day (or Canadians).
09-10-18, 09:29 AM
#28
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09-10-18, 11:12 AM
#29
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+1 to taking the lane when warranted by conditions, such as when it is impossible / unsafe for both a car and a bicycle to share. I will use hand / arm signals to alert of my upcoming movement, move into the travel lane, then move back to the side once it is safe.
09-10-18, 11:41 AM
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"I see that the car following cannot safely pass me, and the driver will also see that, but not until he is next to me, and will then likely run me off the road rather than hit another car head-on," however, is an Excellent reason.
On a lot of the roads where I will block traffic, it is not Safe to pull over. if there is no place to get Off the road ... well, the whole issue is that the car cannot squeeze by ... and except for the differences described by relativity theory, my bike and I are the same size whether parked or rolling. If the car cannot pass me while I am riding, it cannot pass me if I stop.
Also ... a t some point I have to get where I am going, too. When I used to commute there was one particularly unhealthy stretch of road which was one lane each way, speed limit about 45 which meant traffic speed a lot faster, and often during the rainy season puddles would stretch across three-quarters of the road.
If I waited for all the cars to pass I would still be there, 25 or 30 years later.
The only thing to do would be (and was) to take the lane and then when there was a safe place where I could pull off the road---AND get back on again safely----stop and let some cars by, and then do it all again--and again, leap-frogging my way down the road. And I lived in the cycling-fatality capital of the country at the time. I know about road rage.
In fact, I am pretty sure a Bunch of people have already mentioned that it is necessary to let cars by before they build up too much. I never worried for the guy right behind me---I worried about the guy six cars back who couldn't see what the hold-up was and would weave in and out of oncoming traffic because he was sure he could go faster than whoever was making him sit on his padded leather easy chair in his climate-controlled room on wheels.
Basically this thread seems to be about How to Share the Road. You recommendation to not ride at all doesn't really help much.
Also, most of the responses are from people with a few decades of road-riding experience, who have Learned the techniques they share, and put them into regular practice. These are things that Work. When i suggest what I suggest, I am not saying "I imagine this will be the outcome," as you do (imagining incidents of violent road-rage) ... I am saying "This is what has kept me alive and riding in traffic for decades."
Not saying anyone else should use these techniques. We all make our own choices. But I do not recall the OP asking how to stand on the side of the road with his bike watching cars go by. I do recall him asking about taking a lane.
One thing I note----the more successful heavy-traffic commuters all seem to stress Communicating with drivers, even if the rider is blocking traffic. It seems to work for me. I still get an occasional close pass, but it seems to be random, and more a case of someone not realizing how fast I am going when pulling back in ... and Not related to whether I was taking a lane. I also get people occasionally yelling some noise (I don't tend to listen but we have all heard all the varieties of drivers' messages.) Again, this seems to happen as often on uncrowded multi-lane roads as often as on two-lane roads. No correlation with taking a lane.
Last edited by Maelochs; 09-10-18 at 11:44 AM.
09-11-18, 06:44 AM
#31
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…On a lot of the roads where I will block traffic, it is not Safe to pull over. if there is no place to get Off the road ... well, the whole issue is that the car cannot squeeze by ... and except for the differences described by relativity theory, my bike and I are the same size whether parked or rolling. If the car cannot pass me while I am riding, it cannot pass me if I stop...
If I waited for all the cars to pass I would still be there, 25 or 30 years later.
The only thing to do would be (and was) to take the lane and then when there was a safe place where I could pull off the road---AND get back on again safely----stop and let some cars by, and then do it all again--and again, leap-frogging my way down the road. And I lived in the cycling-fatality capital of the country at the time. I know about road rage.
In fact, I am pretty sure a Bunch of people have already mentioned that it is necessary to let cars by before they build up too much. I never worried for the guy right behind me---I worried about the guy six cars back who couldn't see what the hold-up was and would weave in and out of oncoming traffic because he was sure he could go faster than whoever was making him sit on his padded leather easy chair in his climate-controlled room on wheels…
Also, most of the responses are from people with a few decades of road-riding experience, who have Learned the techniques they share, and put them into regular practice. These are things that Work. When i suggest what I suggest, I am not saying "I imagine this will be the outcome," as you do (imagining incidents of violent road-rage) ... I am saying "This is what has kept me alive and riding in traffic for decades."[
[u]One thing I note----the more successful heavy-traffic commuters all seem to stress Communicating with drivers, even if the rider is blocking traffic…
If I waited for all the cars to pass I would still be there, 25 or 30 years later.
The only thing to do would be (and was) to take the lane and then when there was a safe place where I could pull off the road---AND get back on again safely----stop and let some cars by, and then do it all again--and again, leap-frogging my way down the road. And I lived in the cycling-fatality capital of the country at the time. I know about road rage.
In fact, I am pretty sure a Bunch of people have already mentioned that it is necessary to let cars by before they build up too much. I never worried for the guy right behind me---I worried about the guy six cars back who couldn't see what the hold-up was and would weave in and out of oncoming traffic because he was sure he could go faster than whoever was making him sit on his padded leather easy chair in his climate-controlled room on wheels…
Also, most of the responses are from people with a few decades of road-riding experience, who have Learned the techniques they share, and put them into regular practice. These are things that Work. When i suggest what I suggest, I am not saying "I imagine this will be the outcome," as you do (imagining incidents of violent road-rage) ... I am saying "This is what has kept me alive and riding in traffic for decades."[
[u]One thing I note----the more successful heavy-traffic commuters all seem to stress Communicating with drivers, even if the rider is blocking traffic…
What Jim from north of Brockton says is something … who knows what with all those nested quotes …. About cooperating.
I think anyone who has survived a while in traffic should have learned this----we All have to get somewhere, and we all can cooperate and get there. Or, we can all impede one another and get pissed and have accidents and never get anywhere we would want to be …
I think anyone who has survived a while in traffic should have learned this----we All have to get somewhere, and we all can cooperate and get there. Or, we can all impede one another and get pissed and have accidents and never get anywhere we would want to be …
...Last week I visited the family in Macomb County, MI. IMO, that is some of the nastiest road riding I have ever encountered.
The main roads, to get anywhere, are six lane concrete slabs with bumps about every 20 feet, and many cracks and potholes especially on the right, with no shoulders, and heavy, zooming traffic with little patience for (slow) cyclists. Sidewalks alongside are frequently discontinuous, and often non-existent.
Even as an experienced urban commuter,I will often flee to the sidewalks, little used by pedestrians out in suburbia.
Some major [better-paved] roads though, like Schoenherr and Gratiot do have continuous sidewalks for long distances. I have developed a technique for riding under such circumstances I call ”bolus riding.” (Bolus = “a small rounded mass of a substance, especially of chewed food at the moment of swallowing”; think of swallowed food as it passes down the esophagus.)
Since the flow of traffic is coordinated by traffic signals, traffic usually flows as a bolus. So using my rearview mirror, when I see a bolus of cars behind me, I go onto a driveway or intersecting street (all with sidewalk curb cuts) and on to the sidewalk.
After the bolus passes as seen in the mirror I go back onto the street where I can ride much faster, until the next bolus of cars arrives. I estimate that more than one-half of the distance can be ridden comfortably on these otherwise hazardous roads…
I used to feel resentful that I was self-relegated off to the sidewalks, but now I accept it as the way it is. I’m a visitor, and must accommodate….
The main roads, to get anywhere, are six lane concrete slabs with bumps about every 20 feet, and many cracks and potholes especially on the right, with no shoulders, and heavy, zooming traffic with little patience for (slow) cyclists. Sidewalks alongside are frequently discontinuous, and often non-existent.
Even as an experienced urban commuter,I will often flee to the sidewalks, little used by pedestrians out in suburbia.
Some major [better-paved] roads though, like Schoenherr and Gratiot do have continuous sidewalks for long distances. I have developed a technique for riding under such circumstances I call ”bolus riding.” (Bolus = “a small rounded mass of a substance, especially of chewed food at the moment of swallowing”; think of swallowed food as it passes down the esophagus.)
Since the flow of traffic is coordinated by traffic signals, traffic usually flows as a bolus. So using my rearview mirror, when I see a bolus of cars behind me, I go onto a driveway or intersecting street (all with sidewalk curb cuts) and on to the sidewalk.
After the bolus passes as seen in the mirror I go back onto the street where I can ride much faster, until the next bolus of cars arrives. I estimate that more than one-half of the distance can be ridden comfortably on these otherwise hazardous roads…
I used to feel resentful that I was self-relegated off to the sidewalks, but now I accept it as the way it is. I’m a visitor, and must accommodate….
interesting, Jim. I don't use the term "bolus" but do exactly that when heading south on Washington St. in Roslindale on my way home.
There are tons of cars parked to the right, and everyone's traveling fairly quickly, so it's treacherous unless you take to the sidewalks until the "bolus" as you call it passes. then I duck back out on the road and haul.
I also do FRAP even though my VC friends would say I should take the lane more often…
There are tons of cars parked to the right, and everyone's traveling fairly quickly, so it's treacherous unless you take to the sidewalks until the "bolus" as you call it passes. then I duck back out on the road and haul.
I also do FRAP even though my VC friends would say I should take the lane more often…
My experience is that people drive differently in every city and treat cyclists very differently. The best advice often comes from cyclists that live the closest to you …
The exception here would also be Jim from Boston--anyone that can successfully commute around Boston has my full respect and probably knows how to deal with about every intersection imaginable!
The exception here would also be Jim from Boston--anyone that can successfully commute around Boston has my full respect and probably knows how to deal with about every intersection imaginable!
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 09-11-18 at 07:07 AM. Reason: added quotes by mtalinm and sherbornpeddler from Metro Boston
