invisiblehand

Now that I think about it, the Helix is 24" ... right? I assume ERTO 507.

snafu22

Just so. Out here in the sticks it's a rare day to see any kind of bicycle at all. Even the Post Office stopped using them about four years ago: 'too dangerous.'

Also the range of available folders is decreasing rapidly, it's hard here in the UK to find even the Mezzo D9 or the fast Dahons in the shops.

The Dahon Hammerhead was probably the fastest on the flat for the least effort, but for me, skinny tyres don't go with London potholes. It's now the folding Dash P18, somewhat de-tuned and made more sensible, sans front suspension.

I think that it would give most folders a good sprint.

mlau

I'm probably a bit biased, but I think that the Xootr Swift should be on your short list.
It's much less expensive than most of your other options ($599 on sale,hopefully not getting discontinued), and it is designed to be extremely simple, use non-proprietary parts, and robust.

I don't doubt that the Dahon Dash or the Moulton lookalike would feel just as fast (at much more money).
However, the Swift will likely be all you'll ever need.

The weakness-- big fold, fits behind a door much better than inside a trunk (no Brompton), luggage options not as well thought out as Tern.

tds101 

The Xootr Swift is being discontinued, so I recommend getting one while it's still an option.

Models - Swift Folding Bicycle | Xootr Urban Transport

Diode100

Ah, could this be an opportunity for one of our budding folding bicycle armchair entrepreneurs to buy up the rights and tooling and show the world how to do it properly ?

Rick Imby

I would guess the tooling was all built and owned by the Chinese manufacturer that built the bike for Xootr. I doubt the rights would cost anything as Xootr has quit and Peter did not seem to interested in the business model of building a bike model and selling it to dealers and through Amazon.

I don't know. The build has been well aged and is an excellent bike. Xootr sold a lot of them at first but obviously sales have slowed way down.

I love mine but it is more of a packing bike rather than a folder. It would be a great platform to build out in a Basic mode--like the current model---and a more deluxe model with lighter wheels and equipment.

Dahon does this with all their frame models. There are probably 15 different models they have built on the Mu frame alone.

The difference with the Xootr Swift is they built it, modified it a little bit and then did not reinvest and evolve. I would bet they had really good profits from the design when they were selling well. But Xootr is a scooter company that sold a pack bike---a really cool design---but still a Scooter company.

The companies in the folding world that seem to have done well long term--Dahon, Bike Friday, Brompton have all committed their companies to building different options and upgrading their bikes. Each has done it differently but seemingly successfully. And it takes a lot of money and persistence...


But to Quote Jur I think he said it is "a niche bike in a small niche".


I think Xootr had a royalty deal with Peter but I have no idea how that worked. The design has been around long enough I would guess there is no longer a patent on it.

Warranty claims in the future? I would guess you are going to be out of luck.

Paul Braithwait

My Xootr Swift has been featured (by me) on the Swift forum page many times. I find it to be the best folder for my needs. Over the ten years I have owned it I have changed; wheels, gears, 'bars etc and had great fun in the process. The beauty of the Swift is that it is built with normal 'off the shelf' parts so can be customised very easily. It rides pretty much like a "normal" bike with the advantage of the fold. As has been mentioned, it is not he smallest fold but enough to be useful in my world.

Xootr offered a 'Lifetime' warranty on the frame so I'm doubtful that will still be in place.

I can't think of another folder I would buy if the Swift meets a sticky end. Bike Fridays look good but are pricey and not readily available in the UK. Importing one from the USA would make the price eye watering! The Birdy looks interesting but again very rare in the UK. That leaves the Brompton - great fold but not the best choice for long hilly rides and many of the parts are bespoke. They are not cheap either. Which basically leaves the Dahon/Tern models.

Dahon seem to bring out a new model every month and Tern had the issue of frames snapping in half. I really liked the look of a couple of the Tern sports models - check out Peter of NYCe Wheels videos on YouTube - but when reports of frame failures began to surface I lost enthusiasm! I'll just have to look after my Swift and hope that it outlasts me!

jur

Remember in the Ti Swift thread, I was wondering that exact thing? About what to replace my Swift with in case it broke? I already tried a Birdy, replaced it with a Brompton, already have a Moulton, a Bike Friday was looking like a worthy choice but the upfront cost...! Well it was a casual acquaintance, a guy I sometimes see on my commute going the other way, whom I occasionally chat with, who suggested that I get the same bike built in titanium. Well that seed bore fruit all right. Not a nanosecond of regret. I would make certain mods in hindsight but that's it.

kidshibuya

But this "lightest folding bike" is only 100 grams lighter than a Dahon Mu SLX that hasnt a scrap of carbon anywhere.

I never thought it would be so difficult to buy a Dahon. I am in Tokyo and while I see a few Dahons around, finding them for sale is tough. Even so called authorised dealers only stock a few of the most basic models and have never heard of the model I want to buy. Why I just can't buy directly from the Dahon website is beyond me. Why protect distributors and shops that only stock their bikes on paper?



As for the OT and speed, well the rider has nothing to do with it. It's not the engine that determines speed, the engine is you so all bikes have the same identical engine. If the engine determined speed then this means all bikes are exactly the same speed which clearly isn't the case.

It all comes down to inertia vs force applied through gearing - drag and friction.

Now here is my take:

Gearing can be discounted because unless we are talking about a very specific road then I postulate that whatever ever folder you mention has the correct gear for whatever magic road we are on, which is always correct sometimes. Also "correct" gearing is subjective, a measure of speed is not. Any gear can achieve any speed, it is only a matter of how fast you need to pedal, there is no such thing as a faster gear.

So we are left with weight and friction/drag. The fastest folder will have narrow low resistance tyres and high grade hubs (to reduce friction). I can't think of any folders with other aero optimisations so we don't have to worry about bike aero beyond tyre width. I discount things like rider position and aero bars because a faster bike should by definition be faster than another bike in an identical situation. If the rider is in a different position then the comparison is not like for like and is invalid. Plus I could hang my head over the bars of any bike, it just would not be comfortable. So to include things like rider position is to include comfort in a measurement of speed.

Now given that most top of the line folders generally share the same level of quality in running gear giving them equal drag/friction then the only true variable in the speed equation is weight. Lightest top spec bike wins. That is my take on it.

12boy

Ergonomics are a factor. Short wheelbases and upright position,for example, can affect speed a lot. and, of course, where the weight is is significant.

Rick Imby

I'm a kinda a newbie to folders and started with a Swift last summer. I took a REI branded Dahon Mu internal hub 7 speed on trade several years ago that I have used just a little but has been a loaner bike for friends. I had Montague a long time ago and thought about building it up with quality components but instead it went away.

I also got a Dahon Mu D10 inexpensively and am in the process of trying to make it light. I have some really light tires and wheels I'm setting up tubeless. I think I will do a Diabetes ride or two next year on it.

Right now my Swift is setup with a studded tire on the front and it is being used as my winter bike.

I have become a 20" wheel nut.

12boy

Are you using a Schwalbe studded tire? Is n't it better to have studs front and rear? What sort of tire is on the back now? I have had to put my Swift up for a while due to ice and snow but next winter I would like to ride it instead of my Surly with studded tires.

fietsbob

I Know the Winners of the Brompton World Championships , each year are, The fastest on the Day.

bromptoneer

Fastest folding bike is in my opinion the Dahon EEZZ D3. But it isn't the best in my opinion. But i know people can fold the Brompton under 5 seconds. Not me though

marxmini

Dahon Vector X10, Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, Ti Swift. These are my fastest folding bikes.

Abu Mahendra

FnHon Monsoon

fietsbob

a restatement [see #13 ]

The design of the Bike Friday Tikit, Hyperfold was around having the folding action be very fast. (ready to multimode transition , quickly.

Rider effort expended, in quest of achieving a maximum velocity
remains the unknown ..variable..


but they have been discontinued in favor of a lighter, simpler design ,
the PakIt, which folds some, & comes apart some ..




...

50PlusCycling

Birdies are also quite fast; the Classic, or straight frame models can be tricked out to get them under 8kg.

Delia Hogue

The fastest folding bike is. Which are use by me.

1.Tern Eclipse X22 — The Blackbird.
2.Kinetix Pro X 26er Disc Wheels.
3.Tern Verge S8i — The Super-Commuter.
4.Brompton M6L folding bike.
5.Tern Verge X11.

kayakindude

Fastest folder that I have been on is my Airnimal Chameleon. Faster than my road bike and I can fly it all over for free on Southwest.

1nterceptor

linberl

The only way to get an real answer to this question is to put the same "engine" on each bike riding in the exact same circumstances. Or perhaps do some kind of aerdynamic computerized modeling analysis. couple that with the fact that some posters think the thread is about which bike folds the fastest versus which rides the fastest, and this thread is pretty funny.

Abu Mahendra

The idea is of bikes that best combine 1. low weight, 2. bigger wheel size, and 3. most aerodynamic profile. The idea is of "if the 'engine' is held equal". Obviously.

That Airnimal Chameleon looks pretty sick.

fietsbob

Motor pacing is the key to speed,

air resistance is dealt with by the guy in front, you are following closely behind..

bhkyte

Dual drive mezzo and downtube real flyers.