genec

I know a number of you have expressed doubts about whether self driving cars can see you, or how do you know if you've been seen.

Would "eye contact" be enough to assure you that the automated car has seen you?
https://www.techradar.com/news/jagua...trians-at-ease

GrainBrain

That would be nice, currently it's frustrating to have a human driver wait for me at a stop, since I can't tell if they're even looking at me.

This will also give me nightmares about a post apocalyptic world of Thomas the tank engine.

Maelochs

I am pretty sure that if the car hit me in the eye, whether it saw me or not would be moot.

genec

Why would it hit you, if it saw you?

Maelochs

I have made eye contact with human drivers who proceeded to pull right out in front of me ... why would human-designed AI be different?

if I gave you a free light bulb, would you lighten up?

genec

Hoopdriver

A bit creepy, that weird car ogling the woman. Is it an indication of awareness, a flirt, or an outright leer (notice how the lids are lowered). Could be a challenge like " Don't you dare step out in front of me!"

Instead of this whimsy, how 'bout just a simple message screen on the front with text that describes what the car is doing. Like "Ok, to cross, I'm waiting for you."

I-Like-To-Bike

What happens next, when the the person standing at the curb chooses not (or has no intention) to cross the street when commanded by the "messaging" AI vehicle, how long will the AI vehicle wait? What message will be directed to the drivers of the vehicles stuck behind the infinitely patient AI vehicle?

BobbyG

According to the article, "perception of safety" is a goal of autonomous vehicle manufacturers.

Like so many aspects of politics and civic projects, "perception" is more important than actuality. Like when the appearance of a bike makes it look better-suited to a task than it actually is.

Then there's that goofy uber-modern "emoticons over text" ethos with googly eyes rather than as @Hoopdriver puts it, "...just a simple message screen on the front with text that describes what the car is doing".

Now excuse me while this old curmudgeon goes to yell at a cloud.

wphamilton

No. The answer is no, the simulation of eye-contact is NOT enough. It doesn't work with human drivers and it would not reassure me that the autonomous bus isn't going to surge forward.

Colnago Mixte

There are college campuses with "anti-gawking rules" nowadays. That car would be totally busted if it were a human in a college town, and looking at a woman that way.

I was thinking maybe the car could wag his tail, an an indication he's a "friendly car". Would those blue eyes ever have a psychotic break and start running people over for no reason?

"I'm sorry Dave. The light has changed, and you're now jaywalking. I really can't allow you to do that, and my programming allows me to roll right over you like you don't exist. And no court in the land can ever convict me!!! See you in hell, human."

GrainBrain

There will be an LCD panel on the front that mouths "FU" before waiting 3 seconds to accelerate.

Maelochs

Seriously (as serious as I can get in this thread,) unless the AI car said "Cyclist wearing (whatever I was wearing) on my right preparing to cross, I recognize you" I wouldn't trust an AI signal. Otherwise I wouldn't know exactly what the AV thought it saw---me, a pedestrian somewhere else, a waving tree-branch .... maybe a squirrel in a tree beside me.

Also good would be signal lights across the front---if the light is red, the AV is electronically prohibited from moving, amber, free to move in ten seconds, green, free to move. That should give a person ten seconds ... just enough time to get halfway across the road.

Colnago Mixte

Car could growl when it feels threatened, and roll over for tummy rubs if it likes you, or to show submission.

genec

Actually, the "light display" idea has also been proposed.

All this in an effort to get that two way communication that supposedly happens when humans meet on the road...

Maelochs

I say ... if armed teachers make schools safer, armed cyclists would make traffic safer.

I-Like-To-Bike

Lots of "ideas" and schemes are proposed. Many, if not most, are tossed after any serious or rational thought is given.

genec

Time will tell my friend, time will tell.

Remember when the flivver was considered a "dangerous, noisy, contraption" not fit to share the rutted road with horses and humans? Even back then there were laws that required that the nasty thing be lead by a flag waving human, so as to alert the other humans. Yeah, that idea was finally tossed too.

I-Like-To-Bike

You forgot to mention smartphones, the often cited "proof" that every idea/proposal/scheme has the potential to take off.

Rootman

I'm not sure, I've made eye contact with humans, even seen evidence of them seeing me, even gotten 'the nod' and had them pull out on me anyway. Some just space out, others do it on purpose. I can't fathom that we would get anything better from a self driving car.

rgconner

Definitely need to bring that back...

My suspicion is that we will end up with either special frequency lights and/or transponders on our bikes to clue in self driving cars. If we were transmitting our speed/vector it would make it easier for the car to avoid us and not have to calculate where we are and where we are going.

genec

That calculation is done in microseconds. (the computing power is NOT the limitation) I'd rather not rely on some transponder battery for my place on the road. That issue is annoying enough when it comes to headlights and blinkies.

genec

Self driving cars are not emotional like humans... are not likely to "space out" on you on a whim, like a human can and will.

Thus far, self driving cars seem to be "failing" when either hit by a human driver, (most of the collisions between AVs and others) or when their software is "crippled" by human operators (death in AZ). The actual "seeing" aspect seems to be working.

BTW spectacular "Tesla" crashes do not count as AV failures... those vehicles were not designed nor intended to be self driving... yet.

Cyclist0108

It causes "confusion and delay."

rgconner

Or it does not happen at all, or the calculation is wrong. Just ask the bicyclist in Arizona... oh wait. You can't.

IFF exists for reason, it is to make sure the computers are less likely to make mistakes.

If you can't keep track of battery levels, that seems your problem, not a technical problem. Probably be built into your phone or your lights anyway.