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Loose head set cups

Old 10-21-18, 11:16 AM
  #1  
capnjonny 
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Loose head set cups

I am currently working on a 1976 Raleigh Grand Sport. When I stripped the frame down for cleaning I removed the top and bottom Headset bearing cups from the steer tube. I did it by lightly tapping them out with a large punch. Both came out easily but did require a few taps before they came out.

Having cleaned everything I went to replace the cups in the steer tube only to find that they were now loose in the tube, The bottom one was snug enough that it stayed in place after insertion but could easily be pulled out by hand. The upper cup is loose enough that you can wiggle it around slightly in the tube and if the bike frame were turned upside down it would fall out.

A friend that works at a bike shop suggested that I get some green locktite and coat the outside of the cup and then insert it into the tube.
I would like to know if anyone else has had similar issues and how best to deal with them. Also, how important is a tight fit for the cups? would having the top cup slightly loose in the tube be a problem?

I do have access to lots of used bearing cups at the Bike Exchange .
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Old 10-21-18, 11:33 AM
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I also have heard that green loctite can be a solution.

By the way, I think you mean to say head tube, not steer tube. The steerer is on the fork.
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Old 10-21-18, 11:58 AM
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Loctite® Green Threadlocker is recommended for locking preassembled fasteners, e.g. electrical connectors and set screws. The product is categorized as medium-to-high-strength for wicking. It is also available in a liquid form, cures in 24 hours and can be removed with heat and hand tools.
...if you really want to use a product that you can just apply, the bedding compounds would be a better choice. Green Loctite is high strength, but my impression is that it would not be as good as a bearing bedding compound in terms of compression strength, which I think would be important in headset to head tube fitting.

I have used aluminum cans to shim such an installation with reasonable results. I've also heard dimpling (with a punch) the exterior mating surface of the insertion portion of the cup works, but have not tried it myself. So I am unable to comment on longevity. If you go with a bedding compound, they can be quite difficult to remove if the headset cups need replacement.
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Old 10-21-18, 12:52 PM
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I've used Loctite retaining compounds a number of times to better secure cups in place. Last time was a few years ago and at that time there was a goopier and a thinner version. I chose the thicker type as I has a rather loose fitting situation. I did use Loctite cleaner too. I let the compound cure before I reassembled and adjusted the headset. I've seen the bike back in the shop this summer for annual tuning and the headset was fine and still solid. Andy
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Old 10-21-18, 01:29 PM
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What I would do is to try installing the bottom cup into the top of the head tube. If it is not equally loose, buy a new headset. If it is equally loose look at other solutions already suggested
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Old 10-21-18, 01:38 PM
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Regular green loctite is just a thread locker and wouldn't be of much use here. Loctite 680 or 609 are retainer compounds that are made for this type of application and they happen to be green. I have used 680 to install a bearing cup in a lower head tube was was reamed oversize. It has been in use for over 2 years with no issues.
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Old 10-21-18, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dsaul
Regular green loctite is just a thread locker and wouldn't be of much use here. Loctite 680 or 609 are retainer compounds that are made for this type of application and they happen to be green. I have used 680 to install a bearing cup in a lower head tube was was reamed oversize. It has been in use for over 2 years with no issues.
680 is green, and it's the stuff for the job.
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Old 10-21-18, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
680 is green, and it's the stuff for the job.
True, 680 is the correct stuff and it is indeed green. But just specifying "green" (or "red") Locktite isn't enough as there are several grades of both green and red intended for various applications. AFAIK, for only "Blue" (Grade 243) and "Purple" (Grade 222) does the color uniquely specify the grade.

Note to the OP: If you use Loctite 680, or it's equivalent from other makers, those cups will be installed almost permanently and it will take high heat to remove them. If you go that route, I'd buy a brand new headset with cartridge bearings so the cups never have to be removed again.
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Old 10-21-18, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
True, 680 is the correct stuff and it is indeed green. But just specifying "green" (or "red") Locktite isn't enough as there are several grades of both green and red intended for various applications. AFAIK, for only "Blue" (Grade 243) and "Purple" (Grade 222) does the color uniquely specify the grade.

Note to the OP: If you use Loctite 680, or it's equivalent from other makers, those cups will be installed almost permanently and it will take high heat to remove them. If you go that route, I'd buy a brand new headset with cartridge bearings so the cups never have to be removed again.
Which is why I go by the product number, and not the colour, but point taken. Yeah, it's almost as good as welding the parts in there.
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Old 10-22-18, 11:51 AM
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I used some flavor of green Loctite (forget the number, but it was super thin) to keep a dipstick tube in the block of a motor I was building some years back. A couple of days later I had to remove the tube to bend it slightly for clearance. When I tried to do so, the tube broke, literally tearing the metal above the Loctite bond. I ended up having to use a screw extractor to get the remaining piece of tube out of the engine block, and it wasn't easy. I realize dipstick tube isn't particularly strong, but I was shocked that the Loctite held so well.

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Old 10-23-18, 01:54 AM
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I dimpled my headset cup with a big pair of pliers and the head of a nail and a nut. It was alloy though. You might be able to do it with a heavy duty chain tool or something, if its strong enough and can get enough torque. That way it's still removable if you ever need to get it out.
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Old 10-23-18, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil
What I would do is to try installing the bottom cup into the top of the head tube. If it is not equally loose, buy a new headset. If it is equally loose look at other solutions already suggested
This was my first thought also.
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Old 10-23-18, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormy Archer
I dimpled my headset cup with a big pair of pliers and the head of a nail and a nut. It was alloy though. You might be able to do it with a heavy duty chain tool or something, if its strong enough and can get enough torque. That way it's still removable if you ever need to get it out.
An automatic center punch will work good also, poor man's knurling.
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Old 10-24-18, 06:42 AM
  #14  
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I've done both the center punch technique and the beer can. Depends on how loose the cups are. Slightly loose = center punch. Really loose = beer can.
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