Helix Update?
#1901
Senior Member
No,...I'm the "get off my lawn" guy,...
Forums are for discussion. If people don't like a person's comments, ignore them. I don't understand what the issue is. Especially since some here harp on things (the "wondrous, amazing, unbeatable brompton), and then argue when others disagree. Now when the other person/s have an opinion, those same individuals pounce. Ridiculous!
Forums are for discussion. If people don't like a person's comments, ignore them. I don't understand what the issue is. Especially since some here harp on things (the "wondrous, amazing, unbeatable brompton), and then argue when others disagree. Now when the other person/s have an opinion, those same individuals pounce. Ridiculous!
Regarding the Brompton: I own one and I like it. It has it's downsides along with it's upsides but overall for me it is a pretty solid package for my needs. That's why I own one. If something pops up that fits my needs better I might switch. This is why I am interested in the Helix in the first place. Time will tell but until now I does not seem a fully blown Brompton-replacement for my needs. Others may prefer other folders over the Brompton and there's nothing wrong with that. However: When someone makes false claims about i.e. the Brompton I might correct him in case I now better. Pretty simple.
The astonishing thing is that with all it's quirkyness over the course of the last 40 years nobody has managed to build a better compromise bike for those where the folding has relevance. Which is really strange but leads to the conclusion that Andrew Richie probably did something right. Still it is obviously not everybody's favorite bike and there's nothing wrong about that.
So if you manage to distinguish between opinions, false claims/alternative facts and the generic topic of netiquette/forum culture (like i.e. not to play the broken record game) you might be able to judge more reasonably as it seems you targeted into the wrong direction. Which you are still free to do - it's your opinion and it's said to be a free country after all.
#1902
Senior Member
As I assume that you are pointing at me (though I surely never wrote the Brompton would be "wondrous, amazing, unbeatable"): You obviously got something wrong. Mr. Remi wrote his opinion here in this thread that - paraphrased - Peter Boutakis would be a clueless idiot who would never achieve building a single bike and furthermore he would probably not even intend to do so but fooled his backers to get the money. Tough I do not agree with this opinion Joe Remi obviously has every right to have it as well as to publish it (within what is legal where he posts it). i do however see no value in repeating the very same argument over and over w/o adding any additional argument. And - judging from the history of this thread - I was not the only person with this opinion. Now, that the Helix has materialised Joe has proven to be wrong and seemed to be in kind of a reality shock for a couple of days. Until he discovered his new opinion: Peter has lied to the backers about the weight and a ti-bike that weights 11,x kg is nothing but a bad joke. Again I would not agree and again Joe has every right to have and publish his opinion. But as he again starts to repeat this opinion in the very same way every couple of posts over the last pages like a broken record I am again of the opinion that this repetitions do not add any value to this thread and it would be more interesting if he would tell something that he did not tell numerous times before in the very same way. That's all.
#1903
Senior Member
What you argue is valid, but I think the real problem most people have is that Brompton charges 2019 prices for 1980s technology which you admit has not changed much. If someone wanted to charge you $2500 for a bike made in the 1980s (even if it was brand new, never used), I think you’d think that person was crazy. Well, I think brompton is crazy.
Brompton has a perfectly good and fascinating steel frame which doesn't need updating. In the last 5 years the cranks, brakes, bars, levers, shifters and grips have all been improved, and you can get the whole schlamozzle in a 6-speed for around $1500. I think that's a raging deal in 2019.
#1904
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You guys have been rubbing elbows together too long. I have no intention of digging through this stuff to determine what’s what. You guys need to find something better to discuss or the source of the conflict - this thread - will get closed.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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#1905
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Hi Billy D -- I've been a lurker on this forum for about a year and didn't feel any need to dive in. While I agree that some of the arguments and antipathy in this discussion are a little overblown, as far as I know this is the only place on the internet to get updates on the Helix folding bike. True the discussion is full of rumor and speculation, but it is providing a public service and I would ask, on behalf of folding bike fans and those that are interested in the Helix, that you keep the forum open.
Thank you for your consideration and for providing the folding bike community a forum.
Thank you for your consideration and for providing the folding bike community a forum.
#1906
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I find it interesting that Brompton comments are often of such intensity on both sides, and now the Helix comments demonstrate the same intensity. That's ONE way the two bikes are equal, lol. Bike Friday, Dahon, and other folding brand people are just so chill...... ;-)
#1907
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As I assume that you are pointing at me (though I surely never wrote the Brompton would be "wondrous, amazing, unbeatable"): You obviously got something wrong. Mr. Remi wrote his opinion here in this thread that - paraphrased - Peter Boutakis would be a clueless idiot who would never achieve building a single bike and furthermore he would probably not even intend to do so but fooled his backers to get the money. Tough I do not agree with this opinion Joe Remi obviously has every right to have it as well as to publish it (within what is legal where he posts it). i do however see no value in repeating the very same argument over and over w/o adding any additional argument. And - judging from the history of this thread - I was not the only person with this opinion. Now, that the Helix has materialised Joe has proven to be wrong and seemed to be in kind of a reality shock for a couple of days. Until he discovered his new opinion: Peter has lied to the backers about the weight and a ti-bike that weights 11,x kg is nothing but a bad joke. Again I would not agree and again Joe has every right to have and publish his opinion. But as he again starts to repeat this opinion in the very same way every couple of posts over the last pages like a broken record I am again of the opinion that this repetitions do not add any value to this thread and it would be more interesting if he would tell something that he did not tell numerous times before in the very same way. That's all.
Regarding the Brompton: I own one and I like it. It has it's downsides along with it's upsides but overall for me it is a pretty solid package for my needs. That's why I own one. If something pops up that fits my needs better I might switch. This is why I am interested in the Helix in the first place. Time will tell but until now I does not seem a fully blown Brompton-replacement for my needs. Others may prefer other folders over the Brompton and there's nothing wrong with that. However: When someone makes false claims about i.e. the Brompton I might correct him in case I now better. Pretty simple.
The astonishing thing is that with all it's quirkyness over the course of the last 40 years nobody has managed to build a better compromise bike for those where the folding has relevance. Which is really strange but leads to the conclusion that Andrew Richie probably did something right. Still it is obviously not everybody's favorite bike and there's nothing wrong about that.
So if you manage to distinguish between opinions, false claims/alternative facts and the generic topic of netiquette/forum culture (like i.e. not to play the broken record game) you might be able to judge more reasonably as it seems you targeted into the wrong direction. Which you are still free to do - it's your opinion and it's said to be a free country after all.
Regarding the Brompton: I own one and I like it. It has it's downsides along with it's upsides but overall for me it is a pretty solid package for my needs. That's why I own one. If something pops up that fits my needs better I might switch. This is why I am interested in the Helix in the first place. Time will tell but until now I does not seem a fully blown Brompton-replacement for my needs. Others may prefer other folders over the Brompton and there's nothing wrong with that. However: When someone makes false claims about i.e. the Brompton I might correct him in case I now better. Pretty simple.
The astonishing thing is that with all it's quirkyness over the course of the last 40 years nobody has managed to build a better compromise bike for those where the folding has relevance. Which is really strange but leads to the conclusion that Andrew Richie probably did something right. Still it is obviously not everybody's favorite bike and there's nothing wrong about that.
So if you manage to distinguish between opinions, false claims/alternative facts and the generic topic of netiquette/forum culture (like i.e. not to play the broken record game) you might be able to judge more reasonably as it seems you targeted into the wrong direction. Which you are still free to do - it's your opinion and it's said to be a free country after all.
No, I made a general statement, and reguardless of what you're saying, unless rules have been broken, all of us are entitled to an opinion. If someone has an issue with it, it's something that a moderator would need to make a judgement call on. As for the slander accusations, that's ANOTHER moderator issue. But, bullying a forum member? Nope,...unacceptable. And if you, or anyone else has an issue with another forum member, attacking them isn't the way to display "netiquette". I personally got in trouble for overreacting in the past, but I should have known better, due to the fact that I used to be a forum moderator. So, if you have an issue with someone, stop trying to tear them apart, and contact a moderator. Otherwiset some have no basis for complaints against that individual. Some need to take appropriate action, and not insult others.
As to being a "broken record", and "alternative facts",...this is the internet,...EVERYONE is allowed to be as repetitive, redundant, off base as they choose to be. But, Joe has had his "opinions", and has backed them up in the past. He's apologized, and been an adult about it when he's made mistakes.
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If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
Last edited by tds101; 02-28-19 at 10:26 PM.
#1908
Senior Member
What about Tern?? 😂
#1909
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EXACTLY!!! LOL!!! Instead of discussion, it's all defensive, and full of fanboi'ism. Unacceptable,... People need to talk, not preach.
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If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
#1912
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First YouTube video of Helix in the wild
#1913
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#1914
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And most Bike Fridays are full custom BTO bikes unlike Brompton, and much lighter ln general.
Tyrell bikes are EXCEPTIONALLY well made (in Japan, no less), with hydroformed tubes, invisible welding lines and very expensive Kadowaki powder coat painting (which alone costs like $500, if done separately. I know a number of Brompton owners who let their frame powdercoated at Kadowaki). And they are still cheaper than Brompton.
He did NOT prove he can keep making Helix bikes and make profit (which I still don't believe).
#1915
Senior Member
Raxel, your premise is that all tech has to be "new" or it's "old". I think it's a flawed way to look at bicycles, as I expressed when I told you about the (expensive) lugged steel bikes I buy. I have a "modern" titanium Seven with STI shifters, but IMO it's just different, not an improvement over the steel stuff with quill stems and bar-end shifters. Which is how I feel about Bromptons, I like the way they work. The fold is unimprovable and I don't need a 10-speed cassette and derailleur mucking about back there. The 6-speed IGH with pusher is great.
#1916
Senior Member
For the record - as anyone who has read this thread knows - I obviously doubted Helix would happen, while stating I hoped I was wrong. Pointing out to someone who was happy to be wrong that they were wrong is STUPID.
#1918
Senior Member
#1919
Senior Member
That real world fold/unfold video does make the bike look fiddly and a little troublesome to fold... but that could just be the owner's unfamiliarity with this particular folding mechanism. I've never seen anything quite like it (not good or bad... just different) on a folding bike.
Looking forward to the next video and/or review.
Looking forward to the next video and/or review.
#1920
Senior Member
That real world fold/unfold video does make the bike look fiddly and a little troublesome to fold... but that could just be the owner's unfamiliarity with this particular folding mechanism. I've never seen anything quite like it (not good or bad... just different) on a folding bike.
Looking forward to the next video and/or review.
Looking forward to the next video and/or review.
#1921
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The video is very interesting !
It show the folding with plastic, slow and hard to operate locking mechanism (fork, stem/handlebar, locking of the folded front wheel). The rear triangle locking seems much better and better than the one of the Brompton.
I show that Helix rolls on its front wheel only, not both wheels.
It show the weight of 11.38kg without any accessory.
And the folded size of about 80x60x30cm without saddle and seatpost , maybe 90x70 with the saddle+seatpost, much bigger than a Brompton, similar to a Birdy.
The pentaclip offer a lot of saddle position adjustments, more than what the strange ugly potentially dangerous Helix seatpost offer, it is not a standard quill (changed recently), Brompton hinge are faster to operate than Helix locking mechanism and have proven to be reliable even with several daily fold/unfold which isn't case for Dahon hinge system for instance.
Now, who cares of old or new technology, what is important is the bike performances in any aspect (ride, fold, size, weight, utility, comfort...) and Brompton is the best in fold, size and utility, has very good riding and the superlight version weight less than Helix. The main weak points of the Brompton are its transmission (limited total range of 302%, too big spacing of about 25% between gears) but it is possible to mount an Alfine 11 or Rohloff Speedhub) and comfort due to high pressure, relatively narrow tires and poor rear suspension (but Helix has no suspension at all and also uses high pressure, relatively narrow tires).
Note hat titanium is also an "old" technology that appeared about 30 years ago for bike frames, didn't evolve at all (same alloy as 25-30 years ago) and is replaced since about 20 years by carbon and recently by... new stainless steel like Columbus XCR and Reynolds 953.!
The video show that the release of the Brompton hinge is quicker than the mechanism used by Helix ! Internal gear hub is better for a utility bike than external derailleur system becaus they are cleaner, last longer and need less maintenance.
You forgot the titanium fork and rear triangle of the superlight !
Indeed, Burke is handmade but is 3 times more expensive.
No, several BF models (there are and were a lot of BF models !) are as heavy and much bigger folded. BF also uses old technology !
Tyrell bikes are EXCEPTIONALLY well made (in Japan, no less), with hydroformed tubes, invisible welding lines and very expensive Kadowaki powder coat painting (which alone costs like $500, if done separately. I know a number of Brompton owners who let their frame powdercoated at Kadowaki). And they are still cheaper than Brompton.[/QUOTE]
You wrote "Being made in UK is never an advantage, unless you are a British citizen want to support local industry" why is it then important for Tyrell to be mad ein Japan ? Only the Ive is comparble to the Brompton, the others are more expensive (some very expensive).
Actually, the only unique selling proposition of Helix is its price but as you say, the production of a few first samples doesn't prove that Helix at its current price is a viable business.
Now, last point: why do I/we speak so much of the Brompton ? It is just because there is no other equivalent folder on the market ! The only two I could consider is the Tyrell Ive but it is too small for people of 1.80m or more and the Burke which isn't available in Europe and that I never could test (I have some doubts about its comfort).
It show the folding with plastic, slow and hard to operate locking mechanism (fork, stem/handlebar, locking of the folded front wheel). The rear triangle locking seems much better and better than the one of the Brompton.
I show that Helix rolls on its front wheel only, not both wheels.
It show the weight of 11.38kg without any accessory.
And the folded size of about 80x60x30cm without saddle and seatpost , maybe 90x70 with the saddle+seatpost, much bigger than a Brompton, similar to a Birdy.
Now, who cares of old or new technology, what is important is the bike performances in any aspect (ride, fold, size, weight, utility, comfort...) and Brompton is the best in fold, size and utility, has very good riding and the superlight version weight less than Helix. The main weak points of the Brompton are its transmission (limited total range of 302%, too big spacing of about 25% between gears) but it is possible to mount an Alfine 11 or Rohloff Speedhub) and comfort due to high pressure, relatively narrow tires and poor rear suspension (but Helix has no suspension at all and also uses high pressure, relatively narrow tires).
Note hat titanium is also an "old" technology that appeared about 30 years ago for bike frames, didn't evolve at all (same alloy as 25-30 years ago) and is replaced since about 20 years by carbon and recently by... new stainless steel like Columbus XCR and Reynolds 953.!
You forgot the titanium fork and rear triangle of the superlight !
No, several BF models (there are and were a lot of BF models !) are as heavy and much bigger folded. BF also uses old technology !
Tyrell bikes are EXCEPTIONALLY well made (in Japan, no less), with hydroformed tubes, invisible welding lines and very expensive Kadowaki powder coat painting (which alone costs like $500, if done separately. I know a number of Brompton owners who let their frame powdercoated at Kadowaki). And they are still cheaper than Brompton.[/QUOTE]
You wrote "Being made in UK is never an advantage, unless you are a British citizen want to support local industry" why is it then important for Tyrell to be mad ein Japan ? Only the Ive is comparble to the Brompton, the others are more expensive (some very expensive).
Now, last point: why do I/we speak so much of the Brompton ? It is just because there is no other equivalent folder on the market ! The only two I could consider is the Tyrell Ive but it is too small for people of 1.80m or more and the Burke which isn't available in Europe and that I never could test (I have some doubts about its comfort).
Last edited by Jipe; 03-01-19 at 03:31 AM.
#1922
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Even though that video was in Korean, it somehow seemed to show the folding better than the 10 minute video Peter posted a while ago on the backer portal
I don't think it looked fiddly or slow to fold. It looked absolutely fine. The guy demonstrating the fold was showing how the locks work, not trying his hardest to unfold and fold the bike quickly, and with that in mind, I don't think it will take much more work than my existing bike. All the latches and things make it look safer and less creaky than my bike too, although I'll not know until I eventually get to ride one.
I don't think it looked fiddly or slow to fold. It looked absolutely fine. The guy demonstrating the fold was showing how the locks work, not trying his hardest to unfold and fold the bike quickly, and with that in mind, I don't think it will take much more work than my existing bike. All the latches and things make it look safer and less creaky than my bike too, although I'll not know until I eventually get to ride one.
#1923
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Well, my perspective is I'm not the one defending the guy that's three years behind and two pounds over what he promised because it's kickstarter. I'm comfortable with that.
#1924
Senior Member
Even though that video was in Korean, it somehow seemed to show the folding better than the 10 minute video Peter posted a while ago on the backer portal
I don't think it looked fiddly or slow to fold. It looked absolutely fine. The guy demonstrating the fold was showing how the locks work, not trying his hardest to unfold and fold the bike quickly, and with that in mind, I don't think it will take much more work than my existing bike. All the latches and things make it look safer and less creaky than my bike too, although I'll not know until I eventually get to ride one.
I don't think it looked fiddly or slow to fold. It looked absolutely fine. The guy demonstrating the fold was showing how the locks work, not trying his hardest to unfold and fold the bike quickly, and with that in mind, I don't think it will take much more work than my existing bike. All the latches and things make it look safer and less creaky than my bike too, although I'll not know until I eventually get to ride one.
#1925
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I don't know about anyone else, but I come here to read about and view videos on the Helix. I think the bike can be judged on its own merits rather than in comparison to other bikes that arent' the same size or technology. Maybe other bikes are reference points, but I'm getting bogged down in long passionate diatribes about why other bikes are superior -- maybe that should be left for threads about those bikes?
I am curious about the mechanisms on the Helix, as I mentioned, I am concerned about the "fiddly" locking caps which don't appear to provide much leverage. What actually happens when you are "pumping" up and down on the locking parts - and is it something that can wear out? Is it easily replaced then? How much maintenance on the Helix is more or less proprietary and will Helix be providing parts for those who choose to work on their own bikes? Yeah, I'm looking past the initial suprises and disappointments of what didn't happen and thinking about what it is. In some ways I think this could be a pretty cool bike for my adult son who lives in a studio apartment, rides hundreds of miles each week, and travels by train. He's 6 feet tall and I know there's no way I'd ever get him to ride a 16" wheeled bike (too young and self-conscious about looking clown-like) and he also likes doing some moderate off-road riding. A 24" folder could fit his needs nicely...and maybe be a gateway drug to folding bikes, lol.
I am curious about the mechanisms on the Helix, as I mentioned, I am concerned about the "fiddly" locking caps which don't appear to provide much leverage. What actually happens when you are "pumping" up and down on the locking parts - and is it something that can wear out? Is it easily replaced then? How much maintenance on the Helix is more or less proprietary and will Helix be providing parts for those who choose to work on their own bikes? Yeah, I'm looking past the initial suprises and disappointments of what didn't happen and thinking about what it is. In some ways I think this could be a pretty cool bike for my adult son who lives in a studio apartment, rides hundreds of miles each week, and travels by train. He's 6 feet tall and I know there's no way I'd ever get him to ride a 16" wheeled bike (too young and self-conscious about looking clown-like) and he also likes doing some moderate off-road riding. A 24" folder could fit his needs nicely...and maybe be a gateway drug to folding bikes, lol.