Ironman Information Thread
#101
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This.
There are 13-28 freewheels out there. I have a couple. They'll index.
There are 13-28 freewheels out there. I have a couple. They'll index.
If you have 105 or 600 on your Ironman, it should index shift a 28 cog without any trouble. Just screw in the B screw and pull the rear wheel as far back in the dropout as you can.
You can buy a 38 tooth inner ring, eBay's the place. That's as small as you can go without replacing the crankset with one that has a 110 BCD.
You can buy a 38 tooth inner ring, eBay's the place. That's as small as you can go without replacing the crankset with one that has a 110 BCD.
#102
Death fork? Naaaah!!
FWIW, I ran GPX with a 13-28 AND a 52/42/28 triple.
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(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
#103
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Can't you do both run a 28T and 39 up front? I have a 39 on one of mine and they're still available.
But Jeez man, I think a 64 mile ride is exhausting for me just thinking about it. Ride on.
BTW https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-fc-a550.html
But Jeez man, I think a 64 mile ride is exhausting for me just thinking about it. Ride on.
BTW https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-fc-a550.html
Last edited by texaspandj; 08-27-17 at 10:41 AM.
#104
Somewhat slow older guy
39T inner is the place to start
I've taken to starting with a 38-39 inner ring on most all my bikes, and then adjusting with rear gearing. My Litespeed, Ironman, and now the Marinoni are setup that way. Heck, I just bought a Campy crank just because it had a 39 inner ring- took the chainring, and passed the rest along.
Has anyone replaced the inner chain ring from the usual 42T to something smaller? I'm not sure whether it's feasible or cost effective compared with a compact crankset.
I've been trying for almost three months, with lots of HIIT and hill climbs in training, but just can't get along with the stock 42T front and 24 rear cog. Saturday's hilly ride was pretty close to the last straw. I was exhausted by the end of a 64 mile ride with about 2,600 feet of climbing and could barely mash my way up -- walking would have been faster. Not a huge climb for some folks but it's my limit.
I get along much better with the 30/40/50 triple and 13-28 on my Univega, even though the bike is heavier than the Ironman. I feel energized rather than wiped out after a long ride on the same route.
I did get a 13-25 SunRace freewheel, but I doubt there will be a huge difference for climbing. I could try a 28T maximum freewheel, but I'd need to give up indexed shifting.
Seems like changing the smaller chain ring would be the best solution.
I've been trying for almost three months, with lots of HIIT and hill climbs in training, but just can't get along with the stock 42T front and 24 rear cog. Saturday's hilly ride was pretty close to the last straw. I was exhausted by the end of a 64 mile ride with about 2,600 feet of climbing and could barely mash my way up -- walking would have been faster. Not a huge climb for some folks but it's my limit.
I get along much better with the 30/40/50 triple and 13-28 on my Univega, even though the bike is heavier than the Ironman. I feel energized rather than wiped out after a long ride on the same route.
I did get a 13-25 SunRace freewheel, but I doubt there will be a huge difference for climbing. I could try a 28T maximum freewheel, but I'd need to give up indexed shifting.
Seems like changing the smaller chain ring would be the best solution.
#105
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Index or friction on the 13-28?
Did the original GPX front derailer/shifter work with that triple?
Can't you do both run a 28T and 39 up front? I have a 39 on one of mine and they're still available.
But Jeez man, I think a 64 mile ride is exhausting for me just thinking about it. Ride on.
BTW https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-fc-a550.html
But Jeez man, I think a 64 mile ride is exhausting for me just thinking about it. Ride on.
BTW https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-fc-a550.html
BTW, a friend rode 345 miles this weekend, to and from the Hotter'N Hell Hundred, in 32 hours. Averaged 17-18 mph throughout. Yeah, he's a little younger, in his early 40s. But, still... beast mode activated. I can hardly even move today after my 64 mile ride Saturday.
I've taken to starting with a 38-39 inner ring on most all my bikes, and then adjusting with rear gearing. My Litespeed, Ironman, and now the Marinoni are setup that way. Heck, I just bought a Campy crank just because it had a 39 inner ring- took the chainring, and passed the rest along.
#106
Somewhat slow older guy
39T inner ring
I believe I grabbed mine from EvilBay.
#107
Death fork? Naaaah!!
I had swapped out a Deore FD for the ride.
Full post about the ride, with insights I may have forgotten, here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-ironman.html
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You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.
(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
#108
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Index, with a SunTour Alpha 13-28, which I believe is Shimano 7 spaced.
I had swapped out a Deore FD for the ride.
Full post about the ride, with insights I may have forgotten, here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-ironman.html
Top
I had swapped out a Deore FD for the ride.
Full post about the ride, with insights I may have forgotten, here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...t-ironman.html
Top
To be realistic I'll have to go with both a 39T chain ring and a 13-28 freewheel on the Ironman. I'm definitely not a masher but can spin up those hills on the heavier Univega without feeling like I'm beating myself up. Should be even better on the Ironman.
#109
Senior Member
Just a note that on my 86 classic and 87 MV there's an indention/flute on chainstay where chainrings pass but not present on my 88 master, or 89 expert or 89 master. It really doesn't mean anything in the scheme of things but it's another identifying marker.
#111
Senior Member
This sticky is a great source of info. I have been offered an 86 for a ridiculous price and found out all I needed to know about the bike here.
Good work!
Good work!
#112
Senior Member
#113
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Has anyone measured the original chain length/link number on an Ironman with 52/42 chain ring and 13-24 freewheel? Have you found a longer than usual chain length to work better?
I just realized this week I may have cut my new KMC Z72 chains incorrectly. I used the Suntour chain that came with the bike as a guide, assuming it was the original and therefore the correct length. But this week I noticed what felt like unusual resistance, almost like binding, with the new chain in the 42T chain ring and 24 freewheel cog.
Over the summer it seemed like I was struggling more on hills, despite being faster overall. It was unusually hard to climb with the Ironman in the 42 chain ring and 21 or 24 tooth freewheel cogs. It was less strain climbing with the heavier Univega hybrid in the same gear ratio.
The crank spins freely. Ditto the hubs and freewheel. No brake rubbing, etc. But when I spun the crank backward I could feel unusual resistance in the 42/24 combo.
One thing I'd changed which affected chain tension was moving the rear wheel as far back as it would go in the adjustable dropouts. But that amounted to only 1/4" from the original setting.
I disassembled and cleaned the jockey wheels again (I did this back in July). They were already a bit sluggish, so the Park CL-1 lube wasn't a good choice. For now I'm leaving them dry until I decide on a more suitable lube. But even with the dry, free-spinning jockey wheels there was still unusual resistance in the 42/24 gear combo.
The rear derailer cage seemed to be at an unusual angle, and since I was swapping to a 13-25 SunRace freewheel I didn't want to risk damage. Especially since I might go to a 13-28 freewheel later, depending on how it goes with the 39T chain ring next week.
I added two links to the KMC Z72 chain. Now there's much less resistance when spinning the crank backward in the 42/24 combo with the original Suntour freewheel, and 42/25 combo in the new SunRace freewheel. Apparently the chain tension was much too tight. It still doesn't spin as freely as it should, or as freely as my other two bikes.
Subjectively, the bike felt a bit quicker on Saturday's ride, but that didn't include any serious hills where I'd normally need the 42/24 combo. I'll tackle that Sunday or Monday on some pesky climbs that have defied any improvement in speed.
So I'm guessing the Suntour chain that came with the bike was way off and I should have measured from scratch via the usual methods.
Anyway, just curious whether anyone else has measured their chains or has specs on the original chain length.
(Additional note: I measured the new KMC Z72 chains at 53", which should be appropriate according to various chain length calculators, accounting for the largest chain ring and freewheel cog, chain stay length, etc. But adding an inch seemed to result in less binding.)
I just realized this week I may have cut my new KMC Z72 chains incorrectly. I used the Suntour chain that came with the bike as a guide, assuming it was the original and therefore the correct length. But this week I noticed what felt like unusual resistance, almost like binding, with the new chain in the 42T chain ring and 24 freewheel cog.
Over the summer it seemed like I was struggling more on hills, despite being faster overall. It was unusually hard to climb with the Ironman in the 42 chain ring and 21 or 24 tooth freewheel cogs. It was less strain climbing with the heavier Univega hybrid in the same gear ratio.
The crank spins freely. Ditto the hubs and freewheel. No brake rubbing, etc. But when I spun the crank backward I could feel unusual resistance in the 42/24 combo.
One thing I'd changed which affected chain tension was moving the rear wheel as far back as it would go in the adjustable dropouts. But that amounted to only 1/4" from the original setting.
I disassembled and cleaned the jockey wheels again (I did this back in July). They were already a bit sluggish, so the Park CL-1 lube wasn't a good choice. For now I'm leaving them dry until I decide on a more suitable lube. But even with the dry, free-spinning jockey wheels there was still unusual resistance in the 42/24 gear combo.
The rear derailer cage seemed to be at an unusual angle, and since I was swapping to a 13-25 SunRace freewheel I didn't want to risk damage. Especially since I might go to a 13-28 freewheel later, depending on how it goes with the 39T chain ring next week.
I added two links to the KMC Z72 chain. Now there's much less resistance when spinning the crank backward in the 42/24 combo with the original Suntour freewheel, and 42/25 combo in the new SunRace freewheel. Apparently the chain tension was much too tight. It still doesn't spin as freely as it should, or as freely as my other two bikes.
Subjectively, the bike felt a bit quicker on Saturday's ride, but that didn't include any serious hills where I'd normally need the 42/24 combo. I'll tackle that Sunday or Monday on some pesky climbs that have defied any improvement in speed.
So I'm guessing the Suntour chain that came with the bike was way off and I should have measured from scratch via the usual methods.
Anyway, just curious whether anyone else has measured their chains or has specs on the original chain length.
(Additional note: I measured the new KMC Z72 chains at 53", which should be appropriate according to various chain length calculators, accounting for the largest chain ring and freewheel cog, chain stay length, etc. But adding an inch seemed to result in less binding.)
Last edited by canklecat; 09-24-17 at 12:07 AM.
#114
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I disassembled and cleaned the jockey wheels again (I did this back in July). They were already a bit sluggish, so the Park CL-1 lube wasn't a good choice. For now I'm leaving them dry until I decide on a more suitable lube. But even with the dry, free-spinning jockey wheels there was still unusual resistance in the 42/24 gear combo.
Try graphite powder, it lets you keep the jockey wheels very dry so as to not attract gunk yet still remain well lubricated. I buy mine from my local hardware store, 'Pressol'.
As far as chain tension, personally I like to use the B Screw for the final tweaking.
Last edited by sroller; 09-24-17 at 02:11 AM. Reason: correction
#115
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resistance... hmm.
Has anyone measured the original chain length/link number on an Ironman with 52/42 chain ring and 13-24 freewheel? I think it depends on the frame size. I pretty much start from scratch, almost never use the original chain.
Have you found a longer than usual chain length to work better? Some of those older chains really, really don't like being tight. Or perhaps the drivetrain doesn't because those chains were overstrong. Then again, I can't remember not swapping the chain out on any build.
. But this week I noticed what felt like unusual resistance, almost like binding, with the new chain in the 42T chain ring and 24 freewheel cog.
Over the summer it seemed like I was struggling more on hills, despite being faster overall. It was unusually hard to climb with the Ironman in the 42 chain ring and 21 or 24 tooth freewheel cogs. It really shouldn't be; that's a fairly straight chain line. I'd look to a bent axle or slipping QR first.
The crank spins freely. Ditto the hubs and freewheel. No brake rubbing, etc. But when I spun the crank backward I could feel unusual resistance in the 42/24 combo. Check for a bent chain ring, see if you've got a bind in the BB spindle (visually easy to see). Then, like you, I'd move rearward. First thing I'd check is the rear wheel alignment. Resistance can come from gears/pulleys/chain path, but generally is overcome by the power of our massive thighs..... Resistance at the wheel is much more noticeable, and a crooked rear wheel is scrubbing against the pavement (and sometimes the frame), so check that.
One thing I'd changed which affected chain tension was moving the rear wheel as far back as it would go in the adjustable dropouts. But that amounted to only 1/4" from the original setting. Are you using the dropout adjusters? Highly recommended, and I've found that about mid-way in the dropout seems to work well.
I disassembled and cleaned the jockey wheels again (I did this back in July). They were already a bit sluggish, so the Park CL-1 lube wasn't a good choice. For now I'm leaving them dry until I decide on a more suitable lube. But even with the dry, free-spinning jockey wheels there was still unusual resistance in the 42/24 gear combo. Even a crudded-up jockey wheel shouldn't cause that much noticeable resistance, more like chain slap or chain issues when back-pedaling. It's hard to find, but Slick 50 1-Lube is my absolute favorite for jockey wheels. I disassemble them completely, clean and put back with Slick 50 1-Lube.
The rear derailer cage seemed to be at an unusual angle, and since I was swapping to a 13-25 SunRace freewheel I didn't want to risk damage. Especially since I might go to a 13-28 freewheel later, depending on how it goes with the 39T chain ring next week. Beat me to it, but it should be betraying itself with noise if that's causing resistance. Often, the RD cage angle is a sign the wheel is in crooked. Seriously, I'm a decent wrench and I've found this on my bikes and those of others (usually 25 miles in, and 15 miles from home.)
I added two links to the KMC Z72 chain. Now there's much less resistance when spinning the crank backward in the 42/24 combo with the original Suntour freewheel, and 42/25 combo in the new SunRace freewheel. Apparently the chain tension was much too tight. It still doesn't spin as freely as it should, or as freely as my other two bikes. It sounds like that was part of it. I still think there's something else amiss. I'd really like to be looking down at that BB spindle when it's under load and not under load. Your resistance there would be noticeable. If that spindle is moving in there, the torque under misalignment is significant.
Subjectively, the bike felt a bit quicker on Saturday's ride, but that didn't include any serious hills where I'd normally need the 42/24 combo. I'll tackle that Sunday or Monday on some pesky climbs that have defied any improvement in speed.
So I'm guessing the Suntour chain that came with the bike was way off and I should have measured from scratch via the usual methods.
Anyway, just curious whether anyone else has measured their chains or has specs on the original chain length.
(Additional note: I measured the new KMC Z72 chains at 53", which should be appropriate according to various chain length calculators, accounting for the largest chain ring and freewheel cog, chain stay length, etc. But adding an inch seemed to result in less binding.)
Have you found a longer than usual chain length to work better? Some of those older chains really, really don't like being tight. Or perhaps the drivetrain doesn't because those chains were overstrong. Then again, I can't remember not swapping the chain out on any build.
. But this week I noticed what felt like unusual resistance, almost like binding, with the new chain in the 42T chain ring and 24 freewheel cog.
Over the summer it seemed like I was struggling more on hills, despite being faster overall. It was unusually hard to climb with the Ironman in the 42 chain ring and 21 or 24 tooth freewheel cogs. It really shouldn't be; that's a fairly straight chain line. I'd look to a bent axle or slipping QR first.
The crank spins freely. Ditto the hubs and freewheel. No brake rubbing, etc. But when I spun the crank backward I could feel unusual resistance in the 42/24 combo. Check for a bent chain ring, see if you've got a bind in the BB spindle (visually easy to see). Then, like you, I'd move rearward. First thing I'd check is the rear wheel alignment. Resistance can come from gears/pulleys/chain path, but generally is overcome by the power of our massive thighs..... Resistance at the wheel is much more noticeable, and a crooked rear wheel is scrubbing against the pavement (and sometimes the frame), so check that.
One thing I'd changed which affected chain tension was moving the rear wheel as far back as it would go in the adjustable dropouts. But that amounted to only 1/4" from the original setting. Are you using the dropout adjusters? Highly recommended, and I've found that about mid-way in the dropout seems to work well.
I disassembled and cleaned the jockey wheels again (I did this back in July). They were already a bit sluggish, so the Park CL-1 lube wasn't a good choice. For now I'm leaving them dry until I decide on a more suitable lube. But even with the dry, free-spinning jockey wheels there was still unusual resistance in the 42/24 gear combo. Even a crudded-up jockey wheel shouldn't cause that much noticeable resistance, more like chain slap or chain issues when back-pedaling. It's hard to find, but Slick 50 1-Lube is my absolute favorite for jockey wheels. I disassemble them completely, clean and put back with Slick 50 1-Lube.
The rear derailer cage seemed to be at an unusual angle, and since I was swapping to a 13-25 SunRace freewheel I didn't want to risk damage. Especially since I might go to a 13-28 freewheel later, depending on how it goes with the 39T chain ring next week. Beat me to it, but it should be betraying itself with noise if that's causing resistance. Often, the RD cage angle is a sign the wheel is in crooked. Seriously, I'm a decent wrench and I've found this on my bikes and those of others (usually 25 miles in, and 15 miles from home.)
I added two links to the KMC Z72 chain. Now there's much less resistance when spinning the crank backward in the 42/24 combo with the original Suntour freewheel, and 42/25 combo in the new SunRace freewheel. Apparently the chain tension was much too tight. It still doesn't spin as freely as it should, or as freely as my other two bikes. It sounds like that was part of it. I still think there's something else amiss. I'd really like to be looking down at that BB spindle when it's under load and not under load. Your resistance there would be noticeable. If that spindle is moving in there, the torque under misalignment is significant.
Subjectively, the bike felt a bit quicker on Saturday's ride, but that didn't include any serious hills where I'd normally need the 42/24 combo. I'll tackle that Sunday or Monday on some pesky climbs that have defied any improvement in speed.
So I'm guessing the Suntour chain that came with the bike was way off and I should have measured from scratch via the usual methods.
Anyway, just curious whether anyone else has measured their chains or has specs on the original chain length.
(Additional note: I measured the new KMC Z72 chains at 53", which should be appropriate according to various chain length calculators, accounting for the largest chain ring and freewheel cog, chain stay length, etc. But adding an inch seemed to result in less binding.)
This is very interesting. I know I owe some folks here the steps to easy and long-term alignment of single pivot GPX and 105 calipers, but I'll get to it. Hint: cone wrenches, and you shouldn't see much movement when the caliper is bolted up, correct housing length or not.
#117
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I might fiddle with the B tension screw, especially if I go to a 13-28 freewheel -- probably necessary to get enough clearance for the big cog.
#118
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I still think the tightness of the chain amplified the underlying issue, and that it is some kind of bent part, axle or BB spindle, or a misaligned rear wheel, freewheel not seated properly, bent RD hangar (would cause resistance right before the RD catastrophically fails---don't ask me how I know this).
This is very interesting. I know I owe some folks here the steps to easy and long-term alignment of single pivot GPX and 105 calipers, but I'll get to it. Hint: cone wrenches, and you shouldn't see much movement when the caliper is bolted up, correct housing length or not.
This is very interesting. I know I owe some folks here the steps to easy and long-term alignment of single pivot GPX and 105 calipers, but I'll get to it. Hint: cone wrenches, and you shouldn't see much movement when the caliper is bolted up, correct housing length or not.
The SunRace freewheel is new, should be okay. I just installed it Friday. Only problem was shifting to the little cog. Coin finally dropped -- the dork disc was interfering. The rear of the SunRace body is just slightly thicker than the Suntour. After removing the dork disc everything was fine. Seems to shift well and I like the spacing a bit better.
I'm definitely interested in the alignment tips when you have time. You mentioned one for the GPX brakes too awhile back. Thanks. For now I'm just positioning the cable housings so the brakes don't rub. Works well enough.
#119
Senior Member
I've owned two Miami Vice Ironman that were original and one that wasn't. But of the the two that were neither had the white saddle (possibly a slip cover) as depicted in their ad. Instead it's a dark brown suede vetta turbo style saddle. Has anyone ever aquired an original Miami Vice with a white saddle like the one depicted in the 80s ad?
#120
Full Member
That ad threw me off too. I thought they came with black suede that just faded to brown? I know the white saddle looked so good, I ordered a white Vetta saddle before I even bought the bike just in case.
#121
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I've never seen a white Vetta saddle anywhere but in pictures, and never on a 'Vice ride. It looks good in the photo, though. I have seen a yellow one on a 'Vice, and with matching wrap, it looked great. I've never been one to run white on a 'Vice.
#122
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It's not a white saddle, it's a lycra cover. If you look closely at the picture, it says "Centurion" on the nose. Also, if you look at the catalog for 1987 it says it's a lycra seatcover.
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I actually already made a cover for mine (well, I drew the pattern and my wife did the sewing), since I commute with my Miami Vice and had to ride in the rain once and the suede saddle was soaked. A lycra saddle would probably be better for the wet than the fabric mine is made out of...
#125
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Lycra saddles can be very comfy. Two of my bikes, including the Ironman, have Lycra fabric over foam saddles -- not just Lycra/foam add-on covers. The Ironman came from the seller with an old Terry Georgena saddle, which resembles a Selle Turbo with a shorter nose.
It's so effective I don't really need padded shorts. In fact, I get more chafing wearing padded shorts with the Lycra/foam saddles. I may try some unpadded tri shorts for the Ironman bike. And I just wear wicking fabric boxer/briefs under my baggy shorts on the hybrid with Lycra/foam saddle.
But it's not a perfect solution. The Lycra/foam saddles get soggy with sweat -- exactly like padded shorts would. And unlike shorts you can't toss 'em in the washer. So I use fabric cleaner/freshener once in awhile on the saddles.
And if you get caught in the rain on a Lycra/foam saddle, it's like sitting in a puddle.
But for mostly dry climates, yup, the Lycra/foam saddles are very comfy. And most seem to be inexpensive enough to replace every year or so. Although Serfas is among the very few suppliers of Lycra/foam saddles, and most are of the heavily padded comfort variety.
It's so effective I don't really need padded shorts. In fact, I get more chafing wearing padded shorts with the Lycra/foam saddles. I may try some unpadded tri shorts for the Ironman bike. And I just wear wicking fabric boxer/briefs under my baggy shorts on the hybrid with Lycra/foam saddle.
But it's not a perfect solution. The Lycra/foam saddles get soggy with sweat -- exactly like padded shorts would. And unlike shorts you can't toss 'em in the washer. So I use fabric cleaner/freshener once in awhile on the saddles.
And if you get caught in the rain on a Lycra/foam saddle, it's like sitting in a puddle.
But for mostly dry climates, yup, the Lycra/foam saddles are very comfy. And most seem to be inexpensive enough to replace every year or so. Although Serfas is among the very few suppliers of Lycra/foam saddles, and most are of the heavily padded comfort variety.