Doge

Worded differently...
Why take something you love and make it a job?

Then there is this whole thread topic. Riders being abused. Dangerous conditions riding - road and weather and IMO races are just too long. Riders that are super fast and exciting to watch in a 60 mile race, just can't do it in 110+ mile races - day in and day out without serious training time.

I would much rather watch a 2-3 hour road race than a 5 hour one. There is more energy, more attacking and less conserving.

A rider can have a life and train for the former, while the later requires it be a full time job.
I think lots of talent is lost there too.

Doge

Lance? I think so.
I listen to him. He is pretty in touch with everything and speaks his mind. He has nothing to lose from his views, only from court cases.

Maelochs

Plus, he has such a reputation for honesty and loyalty ....

Doge

He is quite similar to all the others he raced with, but trust has little to do with it.

He has a view on how pro cycling, esp the TdF stuff is. At the time there was not Sagan. Sagan changes things a bit, but his views are insightful.

Authorities still take inputs from convicted criminals.
Choosing not to listen to Lance is giving up information you might not get elsewhere.

Remember - the only reason we know he cheated is because he said. To date, there are only accusers and he still has never been sanctioned for not passing a drug test.
So if you are going to believe his confessions, might as well believe his input on the tour.

Maelochs

What I mean is, he lied about all of it and he completely went out to ruin everyone who tried to tell the truth. Think Frankie Andrieu and Greg Lemond got screwed? And everyone else who Lance crossed paths with? I do.

It isn't that he doped ... as far as i can tell, the whole peloton did for decades. it is that he went way out of his way to hurt everyone ... not just to defend himself but to attack everyone---who even hinted that he might ever have doped.

By the way .. if you still harbor any doubts about his cheating you are not sane.

Also, the fact that he passed every test is a Tremendous indictment of the UCI, and has nothing to do with whether he ever doped.

Doge

Well my comment is he has good perspective on the World Tour industry. And no reason to not tell it like it is.

Kevindale

Yeah, I had the idea that things were a little different in cycling, where the most hard-core fans (at least in the US) tend to be fairly serious enthusiast riders, and so know at some level what the pros are going through. Some of the comments about Taylor Phinney really crossed a line, and all because some people are annoyed by his way of speaking.

I agree about the shorter races being more exciting. It would be nice if the one-day races got more coverage, and if there were some big prize money US races in the US that were organized that way. Maybe there are and I don't know about them, but it seems like a lot of the pro-level races in the US are trying to emulate the big tours of Europe.

I also agree about Lance having some useful insights. I just did a long drive a couple of days ago, and I passed the time by listening to his last 5-6 TdF podcasts, the ones that also included Hincapie as well as a few others. His ordeal seems to have finally changed him for the better, and he definitely has some important insights. And as you mention, the pro ranks are still full of people who were a big part of the culture that LA became the poster child for.

Maelochs

can't argue this ... (well i certainly Could, but ...)

I hope he has finally grown up. I was hoping after he got thoroughly busted that he would change his attitude ... I guess maybe it will just take a while.

I was a big fan ... and I knew he doped, because he beat other guys everyone knew doped ... he still beat them.

The problem I had was that afterwards, he decided not to man up and instead to beat up all the people who had put up with him and supported him all those years. Even when he admitted he doped, I felt like he was saying "EFFew" to everyone. Maybe being out of combat for a few years has helped him.

I hope so.

Kevindale

Aside from listening to those podcasts, I recently watched a BBC interview he did last year. He was dramatically different compared to the way he sounded and interacted even just a couple of years earlier (say, 2014, about a year after the Oprah interview). I think he had to be denied his drug of choice (competition) for a few years to really go through some recovery.

I'm not suggesting he's ready to be given role-model status again, but I think perhaps it's time for his role as the scapegoat to come to an end, if only so that some of those still in pro cycling (with very dirty hands) can be called out on their hypocrisy.

roadwarrior

Correct. For example,. as Lance points out, they have no say in the safety of the course. There is a difference between a good show and a safe racecourse.

Cycling is like football was back in the 60's or baseball was pre-Curt Flood.

roadwarrior

Having been there (but had alternatives) I rode with guys that didn't have a lot of alternatives. This was in Europe...guys who had maybe sixth or seventh grade educations who were going to either work in a mine or a really bad factory, or race a bike. It's why they are so good...they have incentive.

Frankly, making a little cash helped pay for college. But you sure learn how steep the talent pyramid is. over there. It's nothing like that over here. In the industrial part of Belgium, Flanders (where the good riders come from) racing a bike is the way out. That's why they take something they love and turn it into a job.

BlazingPedals

My position for years has been that many of these long tours are too long and grueling to be finished by non-enhanced humans. Is the UCI forcing them to dope, then catching and punishing a certain % of them to 'prove' they're on the job keeping the sport clean?

roadwarrior

lol...I raced in stage races five/six days in a row. I seriously am not sure how, after a week and a half some of these guys can get out of bed in the morning. Not they have masseurs and the like, but I was one sore guy after a five day race. That third week facing a major mountain chain...

Was it Anquetil who said we don't do this on mineral water and soda crackers?

fietsbob

Profit sharing?