tablatom

Hi there,
i have been wanting to let go some of my bikes and now after some testing i am selling my CX bike.

I have just done 2 different rides with data,
1. along a rough cycle track with some muddy parts, tarmac, and some smooth hard pack canal path. 12 miles.
Both bikes had WTB Nano's 700 x 40c

2. All on road, including a 3 mile climb with some very steep parts.
Both bikes with Vittoria Voyager Hyper's 700 x 35c (37mm wide)

Both rides were done February in the UK, so very wet and cold.
I rode at about 70% - 80% of my maximum power, on average, a fast cruise.

THE BIKES:
2013 Voodoo Bizango MTB hard tail. 14kg. With the tyres used in the test, the bike weight would be getting close to 13.2kg. Flat pedals. BAR ENDS, Tioga power stud 6.

2014 Boardman CX Team. 9.6kg. With Shimano MT35 wheel set which is 400g's lighter than the stock Mavic xm319's.
SPD pedals.


THE DATA:
CANAL PATH muddy in places, HARD PACK, KNARLY BUMPY CYCLE TRACK.
I had the WTB NANO's at 39psi R and 37 psi F.
A little hard for the conditions, not as much float as i'd like normally, but this gave good speed on the smoother parts.

CX bike
1:01:06sec
12 miles
ave speed 11.85
max speed 20.5

29er
57:32sec
12 miles
ave speed 12.6
max speed 24
6% faster



ROAD RIDE
The Vittoria Voyager Hypers were at 80psi R/F, as they are 37mm wide, it would be roughly the same as 32mm tyres at 95psi.

CX bike
1:31:20sec
21.7miles
ave speed 14.25
max speed 40

MTB bike
1:33:40
21.7 miles
ave speed13:86
max speed 38
2% slower




WHAT IT FELT LIKE

CANAL/KNARLY CYCLE TRACK
Going from the CX to the 29er with its much wider bars and excellent Tioga bar ends, i felt so much more secure, so much more leverage.
The Suntour SR fork soaked up most of the bumps. And as most of the conditions were (typical British winter conditions) wet, muddy, mossy tarmac surfaces having the extra control inspired confidence to push harder with the 29er.
I had more fun on the 29er for sure.
On the CX bike, it was fun too, but with the front end jumping around a bit more, i had to choose my lines more.
Not surprised at all that the 29er was a lot faster.

ROAD RIDE
Over all the CX was a little more comfortable with its various hand positions. But the 29er with bar ends was ok, no problem. Maybe a really long road ride i'd want the CX bike, but i don't like being on roads with cars that much. I did 6 years as a cycle courier, done my time with traffic.
At 2% slower the 29er is close enough to the CX for me to sell the CX.
And the CX has lighter wheels, is 3.5kg lighter and has SPD's.
I think if the 29er had these, the times would be almost identical.


CONCLUSION:
I am 50 years old. When i was in my prime as a courier riding all day long 25 years ago i may have got more out of the CX bike at the higher speeds, thats a guess.

The test has proven to me, what i thought, that with the same tyres and with bar ends to get more aero, a MTB or hybrid can keep up with road style bikes.

But a CX just can't keep up with a hardtail on rough surfaces.

And of course the CX would get blown away on proper single track.

I am now going to sell the CX bike.

I'm going to have 4 sets of tyres for the Voodoo Bizango.

3.0 front (rigid fork) and 2.4 rear (the most clearance allows)mtb tyres for mud and mountains.
Thunder Burts or Panaracer 42mm Gravel kings or 40mm Nano's for gravel.
2.35 Schwalbe G-one speeds front and rear for hard pack and road. These tyres have the same rolling resistance as fast 25mm road tyres.
and
40mm Voyager hypers for tarmac touring.

I am quite amazed at the Voodoo Bizango. I bought it for £280 on Ebay. Highly recommended.

DrIsotope

While it sounds a whole lot like confirmation bias to me, if you enjoy the MTB more and plan to ride it more, no reason not to sell the CX.

I do like seeing the MTB guys on pave out here, moving from one dirt section to the next. They are the slowest things on two wheels, their legs whirling away while spinning those tiny front rings. I can't consider an MTB for mixed use, as there are too many occasions I like to exceed 15mph.

shelbyfv

JMO, but those are pretty short distances to draw any conclusions. If that's what you generally ride, then AOK. For more than those short rides, those flat bars are going to pretty tiresome. Also, you may get pretty tired of changing tires unless you get multiple wheelsets. Better to keep both so you have the right tool for the job.

Spoonrobot 

How much do you weigh? I think your tire pressures are 20-40% too high.

4 sets of tires sounds exhausting.

mack_turtle

Way too much time and energy just to confirm your own bias, but not nearly enough to challenge it. If this was a school science project, it would get a D+ at best. Just ride the bike that puts the biggest smile on your face and don't pretend there's a scientific reason for that.

tablatom

Yer, shouldn't have put "data" in the title as i dont have a power meter.

Not pretending any thing.
There is enough data for me. Plus all the rides i do without data. Done those 2 rides many times without data, and the experience is the same.
MTB's are more versatile, no question.


I don't need 4 bikes, selling 2 and going to be plenty happy with that.

tablatom

I weigh 95kg.
As i said in the first post, i'd normally have the psi on the Nano's a little lower.

But for the V Hypers, thats a good psi for road riding.

tablatom

Sometimes ride longer.
I use bar ends with 2 angles on them, so multiple hand positions there, and much more control off road with wider bars.

I don't mind changing tyres, but i do have 2 wheel sets.

athrowawaynic

Sure. Just do what feels better for you. It's all good.

Because honestly, I don't think you'll see the benefits of a gravel/CX bike if you hang below certain speeds/distances.

chas58

Good point

chas58

Thanks for the post. Yeah, for many MTB is more versatile – especially at your speed ranges. Like you said, it is more secure and easier.

GCN - GMBN did a great comparison I just watched.

My conclusion (not necessarily theirs):
MTB is faster, climbs better and descends better on anything that doesn’t resemble flat pavement.
CX bike is fun (i.e. challenging) on technical sections if you’re not going for KOM. MTB is boring as heck on flat straight rides. I laughed at the MTB on the straight section, and the CX doing the hill climb. ;-)

My conclusion – MTB is faster, easier, CX is more fun in its element (pavement, gravel, light single track).
IN a separate and related video, the CX bike trounced the MTB on a long distance (70 mile) race.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/juNU7yKOc4k" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


To me it depends on speed.
MTB rules at below 15mph, Cross above 20mph. In between there is some overlap, depending on how rough the ride is.

Personally, I’m having fun riding single tracks that have gotten a little too boring on a mountain bike. I like being more careful choosing my line. But, if there are jumps and rock gardens (or similar) – yeah I need a suspension for speed. My mountain bike isn’t getting a lot of use these days as the CX does it for me. Vive la difference…

chas58

I had the same question you did.

Obviously, my MTB can get better times on shorter sprints on mild single track than with my cross bike (although the light wheels/tires/chassis of the CX bike climbs amazingly well). Your numbers show that.

I did my own little experiment with those famous 60mm G-one speed tires with ultra low Rolling resistance. And yes, they are amazing at <15 mph (if its dry).

Low rolling resistance 60mm G-one speed on MTB vs my CX bike (40mm Maxxis Rambler) on a 38 mile gravel grind (mild single track, rolling hills dirt road, some rail/trail).

• MTB time/speed: 3Hr 12 minutes @ 11.8mph
• CX time/speed: 2HR 35 minutes @ 14.5mph

That is a pretty big gap for me. More testing needed…

katsup

Out of curiosity, what is the other bike that you are keeping? Could it be argued that your hard tail could also replace it?

unterhausen

my mtb feels a lot more comfortable descending, and not too much different climbing. I always felt like the issue with descending was with the tires, interesting to see that you had the same on both bikes. If I had to go down to one bike, the gravel bike is probably the one I would keep. Maybe get one that will take bigger tires though.

tablatom

The other bike is a 2016 Boardman Hybrid team.
Boardman Hybrid Team Bike 2016 - 45...

Its my everyday child seat/shopping bike, excellent bike. Only allows 700c x 35c with mudguards at the rear.
Can't let it go as its such a lovely ride and does chores around town and family rides on the local hard pack track so well.

tablatom

I love those videos. Watched them many times.
In this one the MTB comes out on top.

With bar ends i am ok with flat bars.
Quite a few hand positions.

tablatom

Yer a CX or Gravel that could take up to 2+ inch tyres would be better off road.

tablatom

Haha, i have just put those CRAZY 60mm G one speed tyres on the hard tail yesterday!. Did a short ride. SO comfortable on gravel and hard pac.
Going to do the same rides on them today and tomorrow.

Wow that is a big time gap. Maybe try bar ends on the MTB? Can you lock out the suspension on the MTB? that would make it more efficient.

tablatom

Yes, i haven't done a 40+ mile gravel ride, not that much in England where i live.

And under 15 mph there is almost no wind resistance and for shortish rides, i prefer flat bars with bar ends.

tablatom

Just did the same road ride on the hardtail,
but with Schwalbe 60mm G-one speeds @ 45 psi. According to bicycle https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...e-big-one-2016
45psi gives 12.5 watts resistance. Thats lower than a Continental Grand prix tyre. But aero wise its a massive sail, and it was very windy today.

Same time as the CX bike,
1:31:28sec ( take into consideration a couple of slow downs for traffic lights, + or - 15 seconds. ) Still just about the same time.
21.7miles
ave speed 14.25
top speed 43mph.

These tyres are quite amazing. Going around corners on the road in the wet feels like nothing else. So secure. Very comfortable too.
I slammed the stem so i was a little more aero and angled the Tioga power stud bar ends down so i was pretty much tucked as if riding in the hoods on a drop bar.

In the next couple of days
I'll do the CX bike with a lower stem height and 32mm Voyager hyper tyres, instead of the 37mm Voyager hypers.

The hardtail time probably would go down if i used spd's, maybe not though.

Considering the hardtail is also heavier, and there is a 3 mile climb with really steep parts where i am doing 5 to 7 miles per hour you'd expect some advantage to the CX there.

The Schwalbe 60mm G-one speeds are fabulous.
In dry conditions, you could be going almost road bike speeds on the road, then on the same ride go single track and gravel and be flying on those surfaces too.
Yesterday i took them for a short spin at 18psi on the rough cycle track.
They fly along with mega comfort.
The bizarre thing is when i was out of the saddle and gave maximum power, the front tyre gave the normal MTB tyre 2.35inch 19psi sag and squelch, but when sat back in the saddle they fly along as if a typical MTB tyre was pumped at 40psi.
Going to take some time to get used too. Can't wait for the summer. The roads and cycle paths here are wet 95% of the time all winter.
Cool stuff.

Banzai

My "proudest" cycling moment last fall was getting dropped like a bad habit out on the road by a guy on a 29er.

No, I wasn't on a MTB.

chas58

Good info.

Part of my time discrepancy is just the bike itself. Although I minimized the hills, its just a bit heavy to drag up the hills (wheel and tire included) while the CX bike flies in comparison.

I have a '90s race mtb that Ill try it with in the spring. Although it is 30 years old, its pretty similar to a high end gravel bike these days - just rides on 26" tires.

I use G-one "all around" in the winter. the tiny knobs grip well in the wet and on rough and I can really lean hard on them in nasty conditions. They are surprisingly good in the snow too (they hold the snow in, and snow sticks to itself better than it sticks to rubber).

Lazyass

I bought a new 26" (I don't do 29ers) alu hardtail with SLX and a 100mm fork w/ remote lockout a few months ago. I have to drive 45 minutes to the nearest trails so I hardly ever ride it. I'm thinking about getting some tanwall 2.00 Schwalbe City Jet tires and see how it does on the road.

tablatom

Like to hear your results with the 90's MTB. I was couriering in London and Melbourne in the early 90's, had a muddy fox 26" Can't remember the width but maybe 1.75? Yes very much like a modern gravel bike. I think i remember 1.9 tyres coming out then and that was the new Big size tyre LOL.

I think i should have gone with the G - one all round's, great all round tyre for a hard tail. Mind you, i think the G one speeds will be great when Winter is past and things dry up here in the UK.

tablatom

The City Jet tires are real cheap, but on Schwalbe's website under TOUR, if you select the "rolling" filter they only score 3 out of 6, where as the Marathon Supreme scores 5 out of 6.
There are some 26" sizes.