Training for Racing All Disciplines
08-15-17, 09:35 AM
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@Hermes, the video of MEA's pursuit practice was great. Those women are so impressive. The experience of all of the riders really comes out. As well as the strength, it's such a hard effort, even on a wheel.
I'll get essentially one day of practice for the TP, and I seriously doubt the three of us can come any where near the grace on the exchanges the women in your video did. The woman who was originally going to ride with BJ and I in the pursuit at Worlds backed out because she felt we wouldn't have the time to perfect the exchanges, saying they take a lot of practice to get right. I understand that. I also know that the three of us won't be pretty, but we'll give it our best.
I'll get essentially one day of practice for the TP, and I seriously doubt the three of us can come any where near the grace on the exchanges the women in your video did. The woman who was originally going to ride with BJ and I in the pursuit at Worlds backed out because she felt we wouldn't have the time to perfect the exchanges, saying they take a lot of practice to get right. I understand that. I also know that the three of us won't be pretty, but we'll give it our best.
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Last edited by sarals; 08-15-17 at 10:55 AM.
08-15-17, 10:11 AM
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@Heathpack No. One learned in the accelerated class and accreditation process about the slipping rules and to keep ones speed up and the rules were on the website. When we would arrive for training, we were acutely aware that if we slipped our day was over. So we did not slip.
@sarals Did Lee check the track for damage on the stayer line and repair if required?
And if one thinks that this does not hit home...think again. I was waiting to go on the track after an instruction session being run by a different instructor i.e. not the regular one. A junior goes up the banking above the stayers line in turn three too slow. He slips and slides all the way down. The instructor was looking the other way at the time. The instructor did not check the track.
I got on the track and had a rear tire blowout at the same spot as the fall. I rode successfully off the track and fortunately had a spare rear wheel. My race day could have ended terribly or just because I did not have spare equipment.
This is serious stuff and affects everyone.
@sarals Did Lee check the track for damage on the stayer line and repair if required?
And if one thinks that this does not hit home...think again. I was waiting to go on the track after an instruction session being run by a different instructor i.e. not the regular one. A junior goes up the banking above the stayers line in turn three too slow. He slips and slides all the way down. The instructor was looking the other way at the time. The instructor did not check the track.
I got on the track and had a rear tire blowout at the same spot as the fall. I rode successfully off the track and fortunately had a spare rear wheel. My race day could have ended terribly or just because I did not have spare equipment.
This is serious stuff and affects everyone.
Interesting. When I was doing my certification, little girl who was in my session slipped off the track and fell in a heap. No one checked the track afterwards and she finished the session (although we were almost done). I do vaguely remember being told if you slipped off the track you were done for the day (now that you mention it), but in practice that was not what I experienced when it actually happened.
So are you saying that in your example, the Junior fell and this damaged the track, which then caused your tire to fail? Or that there was something wrong with that spot in the track which affected both of you?
08-15-17, 11:06 AM
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Interesting. When I was doing my certification, little girl who was in my session slipped off the track and fell in a heap. No one checked the track afterwards and she finished the session (although we were almost done). I do vaguely remember being told if you slipped off the track you were done for the day (now that you mention it), but in practice that was not what I experienced when it actually happened.
So are you saying that in your example, the Junior fell and this damaged the track, which then caused your tire to fail? Or that there was something wrong with that spot in the track which affected both of you?
So are you saying that in your example, the Junior fell and this damaged the track, which then caused your tire to fail? Or that there was something wrong with that spot in the track which affected both of you?
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Last edited by sarals; 08-15-17 at 11:12 AM.
08-15-17, 06:46 PM
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The junior fell above the stayers line and slide down the track. I flatted in the general area that the junior fell. There is no direct proof that one of the splinters flatted my tire but one could argue that it is a high probability. I rode off the track without a problem and put on a new rear wheel.
08-16-17, 09:58 AM
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@sarals A racing friend, who is the same age as you, was racing at Manchester. He is a national / world champion track racer. He crashed in the scratch race. A substantial splinter stabbed him in his side. He was taken to the ER to remove the splinter. Luckily, it did not hit an artery.
Team pursuit exchanges are easy to master. I do not know where you get your information. However, one does have to practice them as a team at race pace on the track where the race is going to be held.
In the Hellyer women's team pursuit program, the women, who had not done team pursuit before, were doing good exchanges almost immediately. Of course, there are always exceptions where someone needs more practice than others.
Team pursuit exchanges are easy to master. I do not know where you get your information. However, one does have to practice them as a team at race pace on the track where the race is going to be held.
In the Hellyer women's team pursuit program, the women, who had not done team pursuit before, were doing good exchanges almost immediately. Of course, there are always exceptions where someone needs more practice than others.
Last edited by Hermes; 08-16-17 at 10:02 AM.
08-16-17, 10:20 AM
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@Hermes, BJ approached her team sprint partner, BW, about doing the TP. She declined and gave the reasons I wrote about.
For me, I've watched the experienced TP women a little bit in the masters women clinics at VSC while waiting to start my sessions, and OMG, they are so smooth, so strong, have such great exchanges. While I have no doubt that BJ, JS, and I can ride a TP, I do doubt we'll be efficient with only one practice session behind us.
For me, I've watched the experienced TP women a little bit in the masters women clinics at VSC while waiting to start my sessions, and OMG, they are so smooth, so strong, have such great exchanges. While I have no doubt that BJ, JS, and I can ride a TP, I do doubt we'll be efficient with only one practice session behind us.
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Last edited by sarals; 08-16-17 at 12:11 PM.
08-17-17, 08:47 AM
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Light week for me so far...
Monday was a rest day
Tuesday recovery ride
Yesterday another one of those TT workouts with the 5 min 114% intervals, went well but when I got home the first interval was 3-4 watts below target. WTF, I swear I hit that when I was on the bike! Maybe I misread my Garmin or it glitched somehow.
Off again today. Took the opportunity to get a nice long stretching session in. Happy to report that I've managed to get at least a little stretching in every day for the past couple of weeks now...
Tomorrow is mtb, hopefully I can twist someone's arm to drive up to Mt Pinos with me to ride. I could of course do it solo, might be ok. But I really at this stage am better off having someone else around. You know, to call 911, should the need arise.
Monday was a rest day
Tuesday recovery ride
Yesterday another one of those TT workouts with the 5 min 114% intervals, went well but when I got home the first interval was 3-4 watts below target. WTF, I swear I hit that when I was on the bike! Maybe I misread my Garmin or it glitched somehow.
Off again today. Took the opportunity to get a nice long stretching session in. Happy to report that I've managed to get at least a little stretching in every day for the past couple of weeks now...
Tomorrow is mtb, hopefully I can twist someone's arm to drive up to Mt Pinos with me to ride. I could of course do it solo, might be ok. But I really at this stage am better off having someone else around. You know, to call 911, should the need arise.
08-17-17, 09:47 AM
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I got my next two months of workouts. I burst out laughing reading the stuff. What could be funny in a workout? Seated starts in a big gear and uphill high power, high cadence road efforts.
Tuesday, warmup, two jumps and 3 seated starts in progressively larger gears. The seated starts felt like single leg, leg press.
Tuesday, warmup, two jumps and 3 seated starts in progressively larger gears. The seated starts felt like single leg, leg press.
08-17-17, 11:03 AM
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I got my next two months of workouts. I burst out laughing reading the stuff. What could be funny in a workout? Seated starts in a big gear and uphill high power, high cadence road efforts.
Tuesday, warmup, two jumps and 3 seated starts in progressively larger gears. The seated starts felt like single leg, leg press.
Tuesday, warmup, two jumps and 3 seated starts in progressively larger gears. The seated starts felt like single leg, leg press.
Haha, sometimes I look at a workout on my schedule and think to myself "Total pipedream, @Racer Ex". Sometimes I struggle, sometimes it comes together despite my doubts. Its funny to me now that it used to stress me out, the thought that I might be assigned to do something and then "fail" to get it done. Now there really isn't a sense of "fail" vs "success," the individual workouts are each just little steps in the process and one imperfect step affects very little in the long run. Hard ones are interesting to experience, doable ones are just satisfying, the whole arc of it is engaging...
08-17-17, 01:34 PM
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I'm struggling, a little, with back pain. It's been moving around. Sometimes the injury area is sore, other times (and more often) my lower back is stiff AND sore. I shelved the WNTL race last night because my lower back was stiff, and in consult with coach, I decided to rest - let my back heal. It's getting close to the A races, I CAN NOT afford to injure myself and be unable to compete. I can't stand the thought of that, after all I've done.
Behave, back.....
Behave, back.....
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08-17-17, 07:04 PM
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I went out yesterday morning to ride at about 0530. 15 minutes into the ride I get the feeling that I have a flat...yup, sure did. 
With tubeless tires, in the dark. (Yes, Virginia, one does need to put in fresh Stan's every so often.) Luckily my headlight is detachable and about the same size as a Surefire, so I stuck it in my mouth and took care of business. I wasted my first CO2 in the vain hope that there was enough Stan's left to seal the hole if I rotated the tire so the hole was at the bottom. Nope. The Ultegra/IRC combination was a lot easier to break loose than the HED/Specialized combination, though the tightness of the fit took two tire levers to deal with and I had to rotate the valve to the bottom and stand on it to get it to break loose. I finally installed the tube and inflated it with my second and last CO2 and rode home, not willing to ride without a means to repair another flat. Out for an hour, got in 30 minutes of riding. Bleep.
Decided not to ride this morning, went to PT and then to the shop and finished putting together the Allez Sprint. While I was finishing, the bottom dropped out of the sky. Then the sun came out and it was 90+ out with the rain evaporating off the road...decided to wait until tomorrow to ride. At least I can wait for sunrise to start, gotta get pictures of the new bike in the wild.
With tubeless tires, in the dark. (Yes, Virginia, one does need to put in fresh Stan's every so often.) Luckily my headlight is detachable and about the same size as a Surefire, so I stuck it in my mouth and took care of business. I wasted my first CO2 in the vain hope that there was enough Stan's left to seal the hole if I rotated the tire so the hole was at the bottom. Nope. The Ultegra/IRC combination was a lot easier to break loose than the HED/Specialized combination, though the tightness of the fit took two tire levers to deal with and I had to rotate the valve to the bottom and stand on it to get it to break loose. I finally installed the tube and inflated it with my second and last CO2 and rode home, not willing to ride without a means to repair another flat. Out for an hour, got in 30 minutes of riding. Bleep.Decided not to ride this morning, went to PT and then to the shop and finished putting together the Allez Sprint. While I was finishing, the bottom dropped out of the sky. Then the sun came out and it was 90+ out with the rain evaporating off the road...decided to wait until tomorrow to ride. At least I can wait for sunrise to start, gotta get pictures of the new bike in the wild.
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Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
08-17-17, 08:42 PM
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Warmup plus 2 jumps...3xf500 meters motor paced efforts with progression gearing each effort at SDV.
08-19-17, 06:37 PM
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I finally got out on the new bike yesterday. It was more a shakedown run than a training ride. I found that I had forgotten to completely tighten down the saddle when I hit the first small bump and my saddle went nose-up. Fixed that, had to stop a couple of times to adjust cable tension, and just basically took it easy and tried to feel stuff that needed tweaking. TSS was 57 for the ride, which gave me 150 for the week with a target of 210-225.
This morning I went on our shop ride with the idea that if the pace got too stupid, I'd drop off and do my own thing. I told everyone that I was going to be "Wheelsuck Chuck" today. The pace remained sane, about 21-23 mph in the paceline. I was trying to pace myself to remain in the 60-75 TSS range for the ride, but when I dropped off to return to the shop to open, my legs got stuck in Z3 for about 45 minutes. I ended up with 91 for a 1h:39 ride. Oops. 
No pain or soreness on the ride, just the feeling a dog must have when he's locked in the house and sees the kids outside playing. I feel that I could've gone on a good bit longer. Restraining myself is hard, even though I know it's the smart thing to do. I wanna ride tomorrow, but I've used up my fun ration for the week!
The bike is nice. I feel the stiffness on bad pavement, but in general, it's pretty comfortable. Maybe I'll get some photos tomorrow.
This morning I went on our shop ride with the idea that if the pace got too stupid, I'd drop off and do my own thing. I told everyone that I was going to be "Wheelsuck Chuck" today.
The pace remained sane, about 21-23 mph in the paceline. I was trying to pace myself to remain in the 60-75 TSS range for the ride, but when I dropped off to return to the shop to open, my legs got stuck in Z3 for about 45 minutes. I ended up with 91 for a 1h:39 ride. Oops. No pain or soreness on the ride, just the feeling a dog must have when he's locked in the house and sees the kids outside playing. I feel that I could've gone on a good bit longer. Restraining myself is hard, even though I know it's the smart thing to do. I wanna ride tomorrow, but I've used up my fun ration for the week!The bike is nice. I feel the stiffness on bad pavement, but in general, it's pretty comfortable. Maybe I'll get some photos tomorrow.
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Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
08-19-17, 09:08 PM
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Yesterday SDV workout...you guessed it...warmup and 2 jumps. 4x100 meter efforts with motor windup. 96/96/100/100. I do all the flying efforts as a 3 lap race. So there is a two lap windup and then the effort. I used the motor for the two lap windup. We kept increasing the drop off speed each time.
The motor would lead me at the rail for the last lap and increase speed in turns one and two. The motor would stay at the rail and I would drop off at the flying 200 meter start line.
At SDV there is always wind and it is usually a cross wind. It was stronger than usual however, this motor operator is really good. The wind did not seem to make a lot of difference.
The beauty of the motor windup is that I save a lot of energy winding up but still generate max power and speed in the efforts.
If I get too good at these efforts someone will flag me in the ride clean thread. You know doing too much specific hard training is a masking agent.
The motor would lead me at the rail for the last lap and increase speed in turns one and two. The motor would stay at the rail and I would drop off at the flying 200 meter start line.
At SDV there is always wind and it is usually a cross wind. It was stronger than usual however, this motor operator is really good. The wind did not seem to make a lot of difference.
The beauty of the motor windup is that I save a lot of energy winding up but still generate max power and speed in the efforts.
If I get too good at these efforts someone will flag me in the ride clean thread. You know doing too much specific hard training is a masking agent.
08-20-17, 05:01 PM
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Well, I pushed Friday's mtb ride to Sat, I really am best riding with someone else at this stage in the game and I couldn't find someone to ride.
So I did Saturday's JRA on Friday- on the TT bike with the Friday Coffee ride. Pretty easy group ride, I stayed OTF mostly on account of the aero bars. We did 30ish miles with coffee after. Fine morning.
Super-enthusiastic walker insisted on taking our pic.
Yesterday I went out to some local trails which everyone else around here seems to like. But they are steep with not shade and loose dirt/rock. It was ok but not totally fun. I think 15ish miles with 1600ish ft climbing.
Booked a week in Park City for July 2018, though: mountain biking. Better get some skillz and top off my fitness by then.
@revchuck, discretion is the better part of valor. Sounds like you're doing great.
@Hermes jumping like a rabbit these days
@sarals, hope your back feels better... dust off your cross bike though because Im coming to Carmel in March and I want to ride this:
Pedal! Damn it!: Old Coast Road Ride
So I did Saturday's JRA on Friday- on the TT bike with the Friday Coffee ride. Pretty easy group ride, I stayed OTF mostly on account of the aero bars. We did 30ish miles with coffee after. Fine morning.
Super-enthusiastic walker insisted on taking our pic.
Yesterday I went out to some local trails which everyone else around here seems to like. But they are steep with not shade and loose dirt/rock. It was ok but not totally fun. I think 15ish miles with 1600ish ft climbing.
Booked a week in Park City for July 2018, though: mountain biking. Better get some skillz and top off my fitness by then.
@revchuck, discretion is the better part of valor. Sounds like you're doing great.
@Hermes jumping like a rabbit these days
@sarals, hope your back feels better... dust off your cross bike though because Im coming to Carmel in March and I want to ride this:
Pedal! Damn it!: Old Coast Road Ride
08-20-17, 07:07 PM
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@Heathpack #mountainwoman
2 hour road ride with some 3 minute high cadence, high power intervals. I was on the way back after the efforts with the Torrey Pines climb coming up. I said the sprinters prayer. Oh Lord, give me the strength to climb this in tempo power. My prayer was answered and I did a death march up in tempo power.
The Russians loved this type of workout. Destroy oneself and then do a final effort any way one can for endurance.
I slept for an hour when I got home.
2 hour road ride with some 3 minute high cadence, high power intervals. I was on the way back after the efforts with the Torrey Pines climb coming up. I said the sprinters prayer. Oh Lord, give me the strength to climb this in tempo power. My prayer was answered and I did a death march up in tempo power.
The Russians loved this type of workout. Destroy oneself and then do a final effort any way one can for endurance.
I slept for an hour when I got home.
08-21-17, 12:18 PM
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Eclipse: cool when looking through eclipse glasses, meh otherwise.
Today I did a TT workout, just one 105% interval for 25 min. It felt eminently doable, no problemo. That's my best power yet on a long interval since the position change two months ago. Including the two races I've done.
Comin' along...
Today I did a TT workout, just one 105% interval for 25 min. It felt eminently doable, no problemo. That's my best power yet on a long interval since the position change two months ago. Including the two races I've done.
Comin' along...
08-21-17, 06:34 PM
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Ended up with an unplanned rest day today. See thread about CA taxes. Looking at how to swap things around.
Got two solid days in at VSC Friday and Saturday. I am feeling strong and think I have the bike dialed in for the team pursuit event. 6 weeks to continue to build on that. Registered today for the TP, TS, 2k and points race.
Will be racing a TT up here with Heathpack on Thursday.
Got two solid days in at VSC Friday and Saturday. I am feeling strong and think I have the bike dialed in for the team pursuit event. 6 weeks to continue to build on that. Registered today for the TP, TS, 2k and points race.
Will be racing a TT up here with Heathpack on Thursday.
08-21-17, 06:57 PM
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I did my strongest ride so far in my comeback - 1:29 with an IF of .77 and TSS of 88. Felt pretty good, had some short-lived soreness. Took a shower after the ride and headed straight to PT. My first set of exercises there involved that bleepin' blood pressure cuff around my thigh and, combined with the fatigue from the ride, required me to have to bear down to get through them. Ouch. I'll probably go longer tomorrow and plan on not pushing quite as hard. No PT tomorrow, and Wednesday is my last PT day.
It looks like @Heathpack and I are riding together, just about 3,000 miles apart. I need to be done by about 0715 to avoid the school zone traffic jams, so I'll be on the road about 0515 tomorrow. I have to recharge my lights every other ride.
CTL is 34.6, ATL is 40. Finally, my TSB is negative!
It looks like @Heathpack and I are riding together, just about 3,000 miles apart.
I need to be done by about 0715 to avoid the school zone traffic jams, so I'll be on the road about 0515 tomorrow. I have to recharge my lights every other ride.CTL is 34.6, ATL is 40. Finally, my TSB is negative!
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Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
08-22-17, 08:18 AM
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I did an "eclipse ride" yesterday, under our persistent cloud cover ("The Marine Layer"). It got dark and a little eerie, which somehow motivated me to ride well. So I did.
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08-22-17, 07:50 PM
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Easy workout on the TT bike this morning. Hey it was kind of nice riding that bike at a leisurely effort.
Vacation starts today! Heading up to the northern Sierras. There will be three bikes & all kinds of riding.
Vacation starts today! Heading up to the northern Sierras. There will be three bikes & all kinds of riding.
08-22-17, 08:19 PM
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08-22-17, 10:43 PM
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I wish I could come!!! I start NINE STRAIGHT DAYS of work tomorrow. Can you tell I'm thrilled?
I proved (again) why Coach schedules rest days (or tries to) the day before a Hellyer workout. My legs were junk today at Hellyer, I sat up on lap 29 of the 30 lap warmup. My HR never got above 154 and my legs were sooooooo stiff and unresponsive. After a warm down and recovery, BJ and I did two team sprints. We're going to partner for those in the upcoming District Track Masters. We're faster (by three seconds) with me being the leadoff rider. By the way, the team sprint is two laps no matter the track length, and at Hellyer the #2 rider gets to do 670 meters. Flat. Out. Cool!
I proved (again) why Coach schedules rest days (or tries to) the day before a Hellyer workout. My legs were junk today at Hellyer, I sat up on lap 29 of the 30 lap warmup. My HR never got above 154 and my legs were sooooooo stiff and unresponsive. After a warm down and recovery, BJ and I did two team sprints. We're going to partner for those in the upcoming District Track Masters. We're faster (by three seconds) with me being the leadoff rider. By the way, the team sprint is two laps no matter the track length, and at Hellyer the #2 rider gets to do 670 meters. Flat. Out. Cool!
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"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
08-23-17, 03:09 PM
OMC
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race
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My streak of improving power continues. Yesterday's ride was 1h:40 with a .79 IF, 104 TSS. No hip soreness, though I felt it in my quads since they're not used to this lately. Coach came back from the last family vacation before school starts and checked my files and changed the weekly TSS goal from 240-265 to 300-400 - I'm already at 192, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Rest day today. Tomorrow's ride will be my first long-ish one, just under three hours. I'm curious as to how my hip will react, don't foresee any problems though.
This weekend should be interesting, weather-wise. Intellicast is calling for about an inch and a half of rain each day, while the Weather Channel forecasts 8-12" over the weekend. I'm hoping the former is the more accurate since I have to ride at least one of those days...but NOT on the new bike!
Coach came back from the last family vacation before school starts and checked my files and changed the weekly TSS goal from 240-265 to 300-400 - I'm already at 192, so that shouldn't be a problem.Rest day today. Tomorrow's ride will be my first long-ish one, just under three hours. I'm curious as to how my hip will react, don't foresee any problems though.
This weekend should be interesting, weather-wise. Intellicast is calling for about an inch and a half of rain each day, while the Weather Channel forecasts 8-12" over the weekend. I'm hoping the former is the more accurate since I have to ride at least one of those days...but NOT on the new bike!
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
08-24-17, 07:26 AM
~>~
Yep, depending on Harvey's landfall 8-20" of rain forecast for the next two days in my area.
Drought or flooding: welcome to TX.
Going out after a cup of coffee for an hour or so to shake down the winter/wet bike, putting the FG back on the trainer this PM.
After the rain event is over the low water crossings will be too dangerous for a day or so but will still run w/ a toxic mix of herbicides, pesticides, animal waste and automotive fluids for quite a while. Good to have a bike w/ mudguards fitted to keep from slinging that muck on the machine, my kit and self.
We do know what the British euphemism "mudguard" was actually referring to, and it wasn't "mud".
PS: Keep at it (within reason) @revchuck, you are the Man!
-Bandera
Drought or flooding: welcome to TX.
Going out after a cup of coffee for an hour or so to shake down the winter/wet bike, putting the FG back on the trainer this PM.
After the rain event is over the low water crossings will be too dangerous for a day or so but will still run w/ a toxic mix of herbicides, pesticides, animal waste and automotive fluids for quite a while. Good to have a bike w/ mudguards fitted to keep from slinging that muck on the machine, my kit and self.
We do know what the British euphemism "mudguard" was actually referring to, and it wasn't "mud".
PS: Keep at it (within reason) @revchuck, you are the Man!
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 08-24-17 at 12:39 PM.