cooper411

Looking at getting a titanium bike real soon. Will basically be my dream bike and I will probably spec it with the new SRAM Force group and use my existing Mavic Kysrium wheelset. Wanted to get everyone's thoughts on the three builders above. I don't have any special needs, so I don't necessarily need a customer frame. Would probably be looking at a Moots Compact or a level 3 Lynskey. Having a hard time paying $1800 more ($3800) for a IF Ti Crown Jewel. Bike will be used for a lot of recreational riding (including long rides/brevets) and some crits and road races. Thoughts?

SpongeDad

I have a Merlin Agilis (Ti, compact frame designed by Tom Kellogg who now makes custom rides at Spectrum Cycles) that I like a lot. If you look around, you can find some 2004-2005 Merlin frames that have been discontinued for less than you might pay otherwise. Excel Sports is closing out it's line of newer Merlin frames (www.excelsports.com).

onkey

all good choices. check out the serotta fierte Ti. the frame costs $2,200 and is a stock size. the crown jewel ti is more because its custom.

good luck!

blandin

Clearly they are all great bikes, and it would be hard to make a mistake with any of these three brands, so I will make an arbitrary choice based solely on a quote on the Lynskey website:

"A Lynskey Performance custom bike will fit you better, perform better for you, and look so freakin' hot, your friends will explode."

I like the attitude in that statement.

BikeWNC

It would seem a bike made for crits would be much different than one designed for brevets. I have an IF Ti CJ which I like very much. Never have tried a Moots though my friend has one and loves it. Don't know anything about Lynskey bikes but his name was on my Litespeed Classic. The IF is way better than the Classic was but they were at different price levels too.

iansir

I dont have one (YET!), but Moots sure do have some incredible looking welds. Thats what I would snag if I had the cash.

Dubbayoo

Tom has been making frames at Spectrum for 24 years now. It's not as if he left Merline to form Spectrum.

SpongeDad

Correct. I believe he still has a design relationship with Merlin [and certainly did at the time the Agilis was designed].

slide13

I think I would probably go with Moots. I've never seen better welds in my life and I just like they clean, simple look of their bikes. A Vamoots has been my dream bike for years and hopefully one day I'll have one.

terry b

I have two Moots, a Vamoots and a Psychlo. Really fine bikes that do everything I expect of them. Beautiful fit and finish and a blast to ride.

While the IF is a fantastic bike, if you're not interested in doing custom, you may as well save yourself the $1325. I've flirted with them but have backed away because I honestly think they're priced a bit on the high side compared to many equally as talented small builders (ditto Serotta.)

Lynskey might also be an interesting option now that they're back in the business. The L3 will save you another $500+ over the Vamoots. 5 sizes instead of 8, not sure if that's an issue for you. In my case, I'd fall between sizes (much the same as I would on a Giant.) Another consideration might be your like or dislike of shaped tubing.

You'll be fine on any of them, may just boil down to the ease of getting one and how much you want to spend.

Ramjm_2000

I've have had /will have all three plus a few Deans and an Omega (British Ti). I currently have a Level 3 Lynskey custom on order. Like Terry b said you'd be hard pressed to go wrong with either. The Lynskey is my third full custom bike and I'd just tell you be carefull what you ask for. Unless you HAVE to have custom geo, I'd probably go with standard and save the cash. Also, I ended up leaving much of he ride characteristics (gave general performance requirments) up to the builder as the last time I spec'd a "custom" ride, my IF ended up being a much stiffer than what I had hoped for. I used the same process fro my last Dean and it's spot on in terms of ride. I recently had a new fitting and it looks like my Dean and new Omega are a tad large. So I'll likey be selling them. IMO the Lynskeys and Deans are the best deals out there. Good luck!

FYI Add 10% to all new orders on the Lynskeys, their prices will be going up as of the new year.

patentcad

Went to the Lynskey website. Those bicycles have the most gorgeous finishes I've ever seen. Very interested in learning more about them.

Da Tinker

Don't sell the IF bikes short. I have a IF Crown Jewel, and it has some of the best welds I have ever seen. Even up close, it looks more like fillet brazed or carbon fiber than welded tubes.

Bottom line: look at the 'vibe' of the design ideas behind each brand and compare them to how you ride. All are top end custom bike builders, but each has a differing lineage.

karesz3

I just got my house blend Level 3 Lynskey. I rode just about every high end frame before, adn I can tell you that the Lynskey is by far the best bike I've had. It's smooth but stiff at the same time. Their geo seems perfectly dialed in, and the fork choice is great (Uzo Pro). You can't beat their price and serverice.

karesz

https://postthatpic.com/files/1179/Ly...right_side.jpg

https://postthatpic.com/files/1179/Ly...ight_side3.jpg

https://postthatpic.com/files/1179/Ly...m_bracket1.jpg

Squint

Is yours custom or "houseblend?" What size is it and do you know how much the frame weighs?

karesz3

Medium/Large house blend frame (you can see the geometry on their site). It would be a 55/56 cm in traditional sizing.
The frame was surprisingly light. The level 3 is actually lighter than the level 4 due to the tube manipulation process. It was about 2.6 lb. The weight though is not that improtant unless you wanna use a bike for pure climbing. Anything bellow 3 lb is light, so handling, stiffness, durablity are way more important.

Squint

Yeah, your frame is exactly the same as the one I ordered except mine should have straight seatstays. That might actually make it slightly lighter. 2.6 lbs is good and I'd be quite satisfied if mine was the same weight. My current frame has a claimed weight of 3.3 lbs. What bothers me the most is the 1" steerer, short headtube (11 cm!), and aesthetics (I don't like the bladed downtube or curved seatstays).

Kuma

Those are all great bikes, but if you're considering these, you should also at least consider a Spectrum. Nobody designs titanium frames like Tom Kellogg -- he has been one of the giants in this industry for 20 years. As SpongeDad pointed out, he does still have a close relationship with Merlin - in addition to his doing a lot of testing for them, they do the actual welding of the tubes on Spectrum Ti bikes to his specifications. (He does the fitting, chooses the tubes and components with the customer's input and does all the finishing work himself.) His prices for framesets, including frame, fork, headset and bottle are $3600 for butted Ti and $3200 for straight gauge. On top of all that, he's a helluva nice guy. If this is going to be your dream bike, you ought to check him out too...

Shill? Damn right. Mine arrives in 2 weeks, and I can hardly wait!

brianallan

Also consider Seven and Dean (as mentioned above). I like Moots simplicity as well : )

don't get a litespeed!

arsw1

Please educate me, what is the difference between straight gauge and butted? Will this result in different ride characteristics? How important is it to go with butted (since it is more expensive)? Thanks!

marqueemoon

I just love the clean, simple look of the Moots frames. The welds look very nice too. That would be my first choice for ti.

karesz3

You'll be happy with the Lynskey. I think the curved seat-stays are actually funtional in this case, and the head-tube height is perfect (15cm). I can basically eliminate all spacers since I'm using a Chris King headset, so the front end looks and feels great.

Have fun riding

Kuma

For butted tubes, the tube walls are slightly thicker at the ends, where the welds are, than in the middle. The straight gauge tubes have the same thickness in the walls throughout. What this means is in practice is that the butted tubes can be somewhat lighter -- they save weight by making the tube walls thinner where there is less stress and less thickness is needed. The amount of weight savings differs depending on the size of the frame, but Spectrum says that it can range from a few ounces to over a pound. The other difference, as you pointed out, is price.

As far as ride characteristics, Tom says that he can design either type of tubeset for any ride characteristic, so there is not really a difference there.

DocRay

Lynskey is the family that originally owned Litespeed.

I've been looking at ti frames, many manufacturers with similar geometry, and all have very nice welds. the choice is either compact or standard geometry. My issue is I need a larger frame size (60cm) and I weigh 190, at this point, many Ti frames are too whippy and handling is iffy. I'd like to see some comparison data on frame stiffness at the head and at the BB, but it is almost non-existent except for Tour tests on the Ghisallo.
Litespeed says the new Ardennes is the stiffest frame they make ($2100), but no figures to compare with.

Another option is Everti:




frame is $1675. CUSTOM, Weighing in total at 13lbs.

https://www.evertibikes.com/Project%2013.htm

Pez review:

https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=2905

they also have all combinations: integrated headset, standard, compact geo, standard geo, custom or off-the-shelf frames.





Best part: made in Russia, by real commies!

bmike

I went with an IF Ti ClubRacer. Nicest Ti I've seen, and a great group of folks doing their thing with bikes.
I liked the Ti CrownJewel, but the ClubRacer is a Jeckyll Hyde machine - capable of light touring, brevets, and fair weather road rides with the club.

Fits like a glove. Feels great on the road. Good blend of stiff for climbing and supple for LD rides.

Pics are here, including some details of the welds and tubing. (including it being dressed for winter and brevets, with fenders, lights, and bags)
Post on my blog about my build are here.