mstateglfr 

Ha, that means you use the bikes!

Thank you for the pics. Are the bottom of your bags just not attached to anything then? Ortliebs have that movable bottom arm thing for locking the bottom of the bags into place...where do you hook that if not on the lowest horizontal bar?

edthesped

I just threw the bag on for reference, it's my daughter's bag and is set up for the Tara rack on her bike. My bag is buried in a bin and I didn't feel like digging for it but yes it hooks nicely to the rack. The bottom horizontal bar is too high for the hook to clamp on so I clip it horizontally. The front rack that gives me grief is the Salsa Lowrider rack on the Vaya, I can't keep the lower hook on for anything, but that's another story.

edit: I spread the upper mounts on the bag so they fit tight on the rack and would reverse the lower clip on the bag so it hooks onto the rack. See pictures....

AdvXtrm

So it more of a "mid-mount" then. That's still good IMO.

MichaelW

Cost of metal to create the Tubus Tara front rack: $5.
Consultancy fees to know which bits of metal to remove from traditional racks $125.00

edthesped

My guess,

Material: $1.50 (carbon steel tube is around $0.70/lb for heavy wall seamed tubing)

Labor, (handling, fixturing, welding, paint, packaging etc...): 1/2 to 3/4 hr (I'm assuming these are run assembly style with bending done on a CNC type bender) No idea how automated the rest of process is though. Looking at the poor alignment and welds on the lower mounting tabs on my Logo Evo rack I'd guess it's done rather quickly by hand as the welds aren't that nice and the tab alignment wouldn't pass QC in our shop.

Assuming a $70/hr rate would put tubus' selling price at around $35 to $50. Add to that shipping and retail markup. I'm sure Asian hourly selling rates are much much lower and $70 may be a little low for EU???

cyccommute 

The inexpensive racks work but the more expensive racks off a lot in terms of load stability. Tubus racks do cost a lot...although you can get them from Rose Bikes for relatively cheap...but they are much stiffer than aluminum rod racks like the Nashbar, Performance or Blackburn racks. This reduces load sway a lot and results in a more stable ride for the bike.

They are also easier to install as their mounting hardware is a much better design than the flat metal stays used by most rack makers.

DropBarFan

Tara & Logo Evo are made from CroMo which is not carbon steel, right? OTOH it's a bit worrying to hear about sloppy welds & tab alignment though I suppose if tab alignment was bad they'd exchange it.

edthesped

Not sure whether it's CrMo or not... If so chemistry will dictate price/lb, 1 1/4 Cr 1/2Mo runs around $2.30/lb in mill quantity heavy wall tubing, different weight brackets affect price a bit. I think Tubus advertises the weight at 1.1lb including hardware. I think material cost is still negligible but pushing material to $4.00 should cover it.

The Logo Evo came on a used bike that I purchased or I would have sent it back straight away. I used concave and convex brake washers to keep it flush to the frame before I pulled it and tossed it on the shelf. I'll try to snap some pictures over the weekend.

cyccommute 

The racks are made in Germany. So $70/hour rate is low and you have to include finishing and profit. A Tubus Logo Evo sells for about $150 in the US so the wholesale price is around $75 which isn't all that exorbitant given the quality I've found in the many Tubus racks I own. Given how rugged they are and how much better they carry the load than round aluminum racks do, they are worth the price.

If you look around and don't mind waiting, you can even find them for close to that $75 from Germany.

irwin7638

I can't help with a definitive answer about the pricing, but I have used the fairly inexpensive Blackburn lowriders for years before switching to the Surly. I like the Surly for the extra room with the platform, the lowriders are lighter and keep the weight lower. I don't think it is good to skimp on price, the questions of stability and durability are more important to enjoying a a trouble free trip.

Marc

edthesped

We build profit into our hourly selling rate... But I agree that $70 sounds low for Eu but is about right for the industry I'm in. Like material hourly rate fluctuates with market demand. I don't know the retail side at all but I'd guess a 15 to 30% markup on their end.

fishboat

OP here..My only thought when I first posed the question was front rack cost in comparison to rear racks. Same materials, same labor**, same technology, and yet front racks are 4-7 times the price of rear racks.

**It seems one confounding issue may be that "good" front racks are made in EU (where the labor-skill may be the same as rear racks) and acceptably "good" rear racks come from Asia...with the difference being the labor rate..which is reflected in the retail price. The order from Germany option looks like the path to go.

(Of course there are still acceptable Asian-sourced front racks that are priced..high..compared to rear racks, but that may, in the end, be an "is what it is" thing.)

cyccommute 

Just about all retail mark up for bicycle components and accessories is double the wholesale price. Bicycles have a much lower profit margin which is why bike shops sell other stuff.

cyccommute 

Front racks are less common than rear racks which adds to their cost. Fewer units are made so they don't experience the economies of scale that rear racks do. Many makers of rear racks don't even attempt to sell front racks because there is so little call for them.

mstateglfr 

I looked at this pick and my immediate thought was- 'why on earth does he carry a mini fire extinguisher?'

cyccommute 

Damn you! Now I have coffee all over my keyboard and burns in my sinuses!

fishboat

After looking at all my options, and considering that I'll be using a medium-sized handlebar bag to carry camera equipment, I think I'll be going with the Jandd Low Rider



I still like the idea of a top/above tire rack, but I'll need to see if I have room, or really need it(I suspect not..). If so..one of the Sunlite brake-boss racks may be fine.

Thanks to all for a good discussion..it helped quite a bit.

irwin7638

I get that from non-tourists, I wasn't expecting it here!

Marc

alan s 

I'll take my chances on a lower spec rear rack, because if it fails, probably nothing catastrophic will happen. The front is a whole nother story. That could send you to the hospital or morgue. I went with Old Man Mountain for the front and Topeak for the rear. The OMM rack costs easily double (maybe even triple) of the cost of the rear rack, but it's worth it for the design and durability.

DropBarFan

Never thought about that aspect but makes sense to me.

BTW I note that even int'l specialist Tubus doesn't AFAIK make a front-rack w/platform. Other companies' platform front-racks tend to be heavy. Low-riders work fine for most tourists but one would think Tubus would accommodate heavy-loaded expedition types that could use the extra space.

AdvXtrm

I couldn't imagine riding around with the horn of the seat up in my "stuff" like that; ouch!

irwin7638

You're probably not accustomed to the more upright position from the handlebars.

Marc

AdvXtrm

Well, I suppose if I were in a leaned back position, but that wouldn't make sense. Any position other than leaned back and that horn would be in a place I would not want it that's for sure!

DropBarFan

I'm amazed at some of the Brooks photos with saddles pointed up and/or heavily swayed saddles. OTOH some well-used Brooks get sit-bone indentations but don't seem to develop much sway. I can't argue with what folks find comfortable but IMHO the saddle shape shouldn't change drastically, otherwise why don't they make 'em swayed to begin with?

mstateglfr 

Brooks saddles, when level, push you off the front. The nose is tilted to provide a hammock effect.
My leather brooks is set with the nose up...though not nearly as up as the one in the pic in this thread.
My brooks cambium which isnt leather is just a smidge pointed up. Its still a hammock style, but the material doesnt let you slide.

The saddles on my other bikes are all synthetic and they are all flat even because they arent desiged to be sat on like a hammock.


All my bikes except 1 mtb are drop bar. The brooks are both on drop bars and they are extremely comfortable saddles.