Banzai

I know that the late Sheldon Brown advised that one should NEVER touch the tension bolt on a Brooks saddle. Nonetheless...

I have 2 B-17s, on 2 different bikes. We'll call them Black and Honey, per their color.

Black is the older one. 4 years of 20 mile round trip commutes, multiple adventure races and cross races, RAGBRAI, etc...had it since 2005, I think. Couldn't even begin to say how many miles and how much abuse. Let's just say that despite the use of leather protectant, it's showing its age around the frame and rivets.

Honey is newer. No serious commuting duty. Bought it for a restoration I was working on, then it sat for a while, only seeing light mileage, and is now on my travel bike. I don't think that the saddle has broken the 2k mile mark. Got it in 2009. Miles are picking up on it lately with the travel bike duty though.

Honey has always seemed...stretchy. From the beginning the leather seemed thin. To keep it as firm as its older mate, I've run a good cm+ out on the tension bolt. The saddle actually measures a full cm longer now. Black required just under a turn on the bolt once, and it's still going strong.

Weird.

I wonder if this kind of variance is common? That's a pretty significant difference between two ostensibly identical saddles...

krome

I'd say that leather is highly variable. I see it in other leather goods, I don't see a Brooks saddle as being much different. It is possible the tanning process has changed, I know that environmental regulations have impacted the industry. I have adjusted mine as needed. On my oldest Brooks, I've had to punch holes and lace it up. That corrected some sag and brought it back up to par. Mine oldest also dates to '05, but I can't claim as many miles. Still prefer it to other saddles, I purchased it for the durability, seems non-leather saddles only last a couple of years. I've had a pair of leather boots for 20 years, I expect as much from my saddle, with care.

FBinNY 

I've been using Brooks saddles going back almost 5 decades. I no longer do because I got out of the habit years ago, and have come to prefer the easy care that leather plastic saddles offer.

But original Brooks Pro, lasted well over 50,000 miles, and has never needed retensioning. I chalk this up to using enough oil to keep water out (It saw lots of rain), but not enough to soften the leather. Also, the fastest way to kill a leather saddle is to ride it when it's soggy.

rekmeyata

Whatever you do follow the care instructions that Brooks provides, not some internet cycling dead guru, or some friend, etc. Brooks has been making saddles for over 100 years and they know how to treat the saddle to make it last a long time.

Adjusting the saddle according to Brooks should be about a 1/4 a turn every 6 months, which I do think is a bit much but it also depends on rider weight. I found that the first year of either of my B17 or the Swift that I needed to make a 1/8th turn adjustment, after that the b17 required only one other adjustment about 6 or 7 years later, the Swift about 3 or 4 years later. You can tell how much to adjust it by, simply check the bolt's snugness before installing it when it was new to get a feel for it, then check it after the first 6 months then again at a year, then simply check it once a year and snug it like it was when new. If you never adjust it like Sheldon said the saddle will slowly turn into a hammock, you don't want that.

Brooks will survive rain but I try never to expose a leather saddle to rain. If it does get wet never adjust the spanner when the saddle is even remotely damp. I do use the Proofide once a year and apply it like you would with shoe wax and polish it in. Then afterwards I apply KIWI neutral colored (don't get colored wax or it will stain your shorts) paste wax (liquid or cream will not work as well), and rub it in and polish. but on my touring bike with the b17 I carry a saddle cover just in case, on my road bike with the Swift I don't and it has gotten wet with no ill effects.

Firetngguy

FWIW your experience mirrors my own, Banzai. I've come to realize that Brooks saddles are like children. They might look similar and come from the same parents but often require different guidance to keep them in line. Some need a strong hand and others just a light touch.

onbike 1939

No, it's not guidance they need but better quality control at Brooks.

The problem with the original Brooks firm before it was sold, was that they used Butt hides of different thickness's. They could vary in thickness up to 100%. This has become better now but there are still differences in thickness according to the model sold.

If no conditioning is applied to the leather then expect complaints such as those above about cracking and splitting mainly at the rivets . This because the forming process of the saddle means leaching out the natural oils in the leather. Keep them long enough and the leather will crumble into dust. Treating the underside of the saddle with a leather conditioner such as used by saddler's will prevent this but one has to be careful not to use too much as this will over-soften the leather. "Hydrophane" will preserve an waterproof the leather ensuring a long life.

Those that believe that Brooks knows better than anyone else how to treat their saddles should be aware that until relatively recently the company advised that Proofide should never be applied to the underside of the saddle. Now they advise exactly that...why the change? Because these saddles are sold as a niche product in the USA and they are aware that most riders there do not use mudguards. Using Proofide on the underside will prevent road spray to an extent but too many applications and you soften the saddle. Leather continues to be leather, whatever the mystique created by people who should know better and there are leather saddles on the market of equal and better quality than Brooks. Check out Berthoud saddles or the brand sold by Spa cycles which is cheaper than Brooks but of superior quality in my view.

rekmeyata

What I would like to know is how you took care of the saddles. You mentioned leather protectant, what kind and or brand did you use?

Banzai

Once a year Proofhide in the beginning. I moved to Obenauf's based on numerous recommendations (including uber-curmudgeon and retro-grouch Grant Peterson.) Just a dab on top and bottom, let it soak in, polish off the top. Nothing crazy.

Great thing about having the Obenauf's around is that my nice leather boots got some badly needed water-proofing/conditioning out of the deal too.

Banzai

This is kind of what I was thinking.

rekmeyata

Are you using Obenauf's Heavy Duty LP? I'm not familiar with that product, but a lot of people over the years will get on a band wagon and promote some odd thing or another to use on Brooks and all the stuff did was ruin the saddle for the long haul. The problem is with a lot of that stuff is the amount of oil found in the products, this stuff will work good for all kinds of leathers such as baseball gloves, shoes etc and they will mention saddles, but what people don't realize is that the meaning of saddles is horse saddles which are not the same as bicycle saddles. Bicycle saddles are suspended and must support weight on that suspension, horse saddles are not suspended neither is any other leather product, and too much oil will make the leather pull away from the rivets and rails, which is what it sounds like your's is doing. I would use nothing but Proofide once a year and neutral colored KIWI paste shoe wax. But it's your saddle if you feel Obenauf's is working good enough for you then continue, but I would be questioning it because my B17 has a lot more years and miles then yours and I'm not having those issues. Just a suggestion/opinion.

JohnDThompson 

"Obenauf's remarkable leather care products use natural oils, beeswax, and propolis..."

Doesn't seem remarkably different from Proofide:



How does the price compare?

Banzai

I think it's a little bit nicer than Proofide...and WAY cheaper. The same price you'd pay for a little tiny tin of Proofide will get you a pretty decent volume of Obenauf's. Sorry I'm too lazy to get the exact volumes, but it's significantly more product.

Banzai

All my Brookses use Obenauf's. The B17 that's all stretchy is NOT the one showing wear around the rivets; in fact, it looks pretty healthy around the rivets. The older B17 that is holding firm has wear/cracking around the rivets, but I was just pointing that out by way of illustrating the abuse and element exposure it's endured and that despite the abuse the shape/tension is holding perfectly well.

It's the newer stretchy saddle that hasn't been abused nearly as much that I was mainly commenting on.

Total inventory; 3 B17s, 1 B17N. One of those B17s is requiring some rather significant application of the tension bolt. Also have a Team Pro that I purchased 3 months ago that I desperately want to like, but so far it sucks.

rekmeyata

The issue I have with Obenauf's is the unknown factor. The unknown factor is what percentage of oil is being used vs Proofide, and does vegetable oil react to leather differently then "natural oils" whatever natural oil means, dinosaur oil is natural oil, as is any oil. So to look at the ingredients of one and compare it to another is a lacking quite of bit knowledge on the the kind of oils used and the percentages used and how those react to suspended leathers found in bicycle saddles. I do know that Neatsoil or Minkoil will destroy a Brooks saddle in short order, I 've know people who have done this due to a bike guru's advice and the saddles lasted about 5 to 8 years before they pulled away from the rivets and frame and could no longer be tensioned.

Also some people I know use Sno-Seal in the beeswax form and had have no problems.

Sorry, guys, but I would use nothing but Proofide and or KIWI paste shoe polish, I've in fact since I've run out of Proofide about 3 years ago have been using nothing but the Kiwi paste and like the results a lot and always have. I actually know a person who has been using the Kiwi wax for many years, more years then I have had my oldest Brooks, and his saddle looks great...though I'm not sure if that's because the older saddles may have been made better then today's saddles or not.

I am thinking about trying the Selle Anatomica Titanico X saddle for my new bike and use nothing but Kiwi paste wax on it.

TallRider

Has anyone heard any horror stories about Obenhauf's, or (more likely) experienced shorter saddle lifespans with Obenhauf's compared to Proofide?
My default expectation (null hypothesis) in this case would be no difference.
Do Kiwi paste or Sno-Seal pass your "unknown factor" test? (they may, I'm just not sure how they differ from the unknown factor of Obenhauf's in your analysis)

As for me, I've been riding a Brooks Team Pro for 750 miles and it's still very hard (and I realize it has thicker leather and thus takes longer break-in than the B17) but I loosened the tension bolt slightly which allows for just a bit more flex in the leather, which has improved my riding comfort.

Banzai

I think Obenauf's gets universally good reviews.

Also, we're getting sidetracked. All my Brookses use Obenauf's. My elementary school studies on the scientific method tells me that I can reasonably eliminate the Obenauf's as the causal factor in the stretchiness of one of those saddles.

Re; the Team Pro. I would loosen the tension bolt...but it came to me already bottomed out. No give there...