tgot 

Is yours a tretubi with the triangular Columbus sticker? If so, could you tell me the seatpost diameter? It may be that I'm trying to put a 27.2 into a 27.0 tube.

I have 700c wheels and no 27" in the stable, so that was a motivation to go to that size.

Thanks.

tgot 

Good looking ItalVega!

I have not had it measured. The crimped top made me think it wouldn't be accurate. My vernier calipers wouldn't reach past that area, but maybe the bike shop has the right tool for that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Kabuki12

Mine has the triangle Columbus sticker tretubi . It is 27 seat post. The seat post is Zeus Competition which is almost identical to Campagnolo Super Record(fluted). My bike came with tubular wheels that were the same as 700c . I did not want sew ups and decided to use the 27” Rigida wheels I had that are laced to Campagnolo Record High Flange hubs.

tgot 

After the suggestion to take the bike to an LBS, in the hope that it could be measured, I took it in yesterday. I missed the tech/mechanic who does all the real repairs, but the owner suggested I leave the bike to have the seat tube measured.

Today I went in, and the mechanic had swung by his house, brought the seatpost from *his* ItalVega to check, and was able to confirm that a 27.0 was indeed what I needed.

Sadly, the supplier they use had no 27.0 posts in stock, so I wasn't able to buy through them. And the tech declined my offer to charge me for 15 minutes of shop time. He enjoys owning and working on classic bikes!

I need to find a way to pay the store and mechanic. They mostly do mountain bikes, lots of full suspension, with some cruisers and e-bikes. So the parts they have that align with my ItalVega build are likely to be zero.

Anyway, I now have a 27.0 post on order from eBay.

I think the next step is probably to clean the fork, make sure the headset races are in good condition, and try metal polish and/or aluminum foil on the chrome.

repechage

Seat tubes are single butted, thick end toward the bottom.
if the tube had been inverted, then beyond the butt would be sloppy.

if was mine, I would attack the base of the lug ear slot with a small Dremel tip and subdue that stress riser, nail polish it after.

the lug ears look a bit askew- kind of normal actually from the lug maker.
as they have been filled with brass, check the bore alignment. Prob ok.

the hitting resistance beyond 75mm of insertion... take a very straight edge and place it against the outside of the tube below the lug at a number of radians. These were series production- stresses get built in and tubes were not always straight.
I have rolled out of the box tubes over a surface plate and some are warped.
the Japanese tube makers are the most consistently round.

depending on what you find maybe a reamer, brake hones smooth things but are not the tool to align a bore.

mech986 

You are correct. The flat headbadge represents 70-71 production years, 72's started coming with 3D badges with raised borders colored gold around and between the Italian colors. Correctly, the BB's had either no serial numbers (I have one frame like that) or a 4 digit number, no stars. In 1972-73 depending on models, the *6 digits* serial number format came in, possibly signifying a change in Torpado's numbering for Italvega / Lawee. However, all Italvega serial numbers were placed on the edge of the BB drive side. In another thread, its suggested that some locales or states put serial numbers onto bikes that had none so there would be something that could help ID the bike, and that is plausible here since it doesn't fit any otherwise known Italvega numbering. However, if one wanted to speculate or extrapolate, the number 102371 "could" represent 1971, February, 371st frame (using the *6 digit* code of *YMM frame#* or as mentioned above, 4 digit serial number 1023, 1971 year SN stamped in by somebody. It will remain a mystery till we can find other Gran Turismo's serial numbers or lack thereof to compare with.

Sad to see the seat tube got bulged under the clamps. The tubing is likely SP frame tubing only and Faulck stay and fork tubing, and that uses a 27.0 diameter seatpost as you found out. All of my Italvega frames use 27.0 and I have not yet found any credible evidence that any of the early 1st generation Italvega frames used any other size, even the lower Viva Sport or Nuovo Sport although I have little experience with them directly.

If you look closely, the font that Lawee chose for the model decal Gran Rally, also mimics the Raleigh International, Competition, and Professional model decal fonts.

If it did have a 27.2 post, it was somehow forced in. The correct post for a Nuovo Record tretubi should be 27.0 mm.

mech986 

Tgot, what type of Italvega does the mechanic own? Any chance we see a pic of it too?

Here's another way an Italvega can look set up for Eroica, my 1972 Super Speciale:

72 Super Speciale as prepped for Eroica California 2019

Ex Pres 

I'm going to have to inspect it, not only its mark but check with a caliper. I just don't recall having a 27.0 Record seatpost in the parts bin to build [bought as frame] mine up.
EDIT: too many dead brain cells. It is a 27.0 post. I just have no memory of having had one of these in Record laying around.

francophile 

Hey tgot just popped in here to say: Got your twin!

I can't ride this comfortably due to size (I tried soooo hard) so I listed it for sale just before the pandemic exploded. I pulled the listing when I went to Switzerland in March so I still have the bike. If you need pics of anything on mine, ping me. Meanwhile, I'm posting some inspiration pics for you below.

GLHF with the rebuild! It's a really, really nice bike and the paint color is - in my opinion - the best, with the root beer color 3speedslow has coming in a close 2nd.

mech986 

Very nice francophile! Can you get a shot of the underside of the bottom bracket and see if there is a serial number and frame size stamped there? Can you also verify that it takes a 27.0 mm seatpost? I believe your bike is likely a 4 digit serial number version, around 1972 or 73 due to the 3D headbadge outlined in gold.

I remember seeing your bike up for sale on ATL Craigslist, I wondered what happened to it, now we know. Did you do a repaint and new decals? The bike is in great shape and the paint literally shines! My Super Speciale pictured above has the original paint but all new decals since the originals had flaked off over the years which is quite common with the original water slide decals. I need to replace the replacement Columbus tubing decal though due to losing a little bit when I cleaned up with some cleaner that took part of it off. I used the Cyclomondo decals / stickers from Australia but that was a couple of years ago, currently I've heard it takes 4-6 weeks to get them due to Covid related slowdowns in mail services internationally.

francophile 

Paint is original, I believe the decals are too based on the little missing bits here and there especially on the non-drive side. The lustre and quality of the restore is sloar 's skills at play, not mine. I got the bike as you see it, it's just too small for me (56).

It was on display in a collection for a stint, I'd hoped that would lead to a sale, but no dice. It'll need to go sooner than later, space is at a premium with the pandemic ... work from home + school from home has resulted in having to re-org things and I've lost a significant portion of my workspace to desks and tables.

As for the bb shell. 6-digit serial with a star stamped on either side as shown here. No size stamped into the shell. This is the 4th Italvega I've had my hands on and I haven't seen one of those w/a size stamp on the BB shell. Digital caliper is on the fritz, eating batteries but caliper on the seat post just above the seat collar came in at 27.19 - 27.17 - 27.20 across three measures (measure, lock the caliper, slide it off the post), take it or leave it.

Don't have time to pull the seat post and check for measurements at the moment but if you really, really need a sanity check I can pull it just to confirm whether it's 27.0 or 27.2.


Back side of shell

Front side of shell

mech986 

Francophile, thanks for the additional information. Your *305198* (EDIT: *305196*, I misread the last numeral)) serial number confirms a clear 1973, May, 196th frame if my interpretation of the numbering scheme is correct. Its been hard to get serial numbers on the Gran Turismo, Gran Rally, and Nuovo Record's that I've seen primarily because the owners don't tend to photograph or show the numbers. It is not clear if each model had its own numbers or shared them across the production with the Super Speciale, later Superlight, and the base Nuovo or Viva Sport. Usually I've found the early Italvega's have the frame size stamped on BB socket for down tube or between the chain stay sockets, but apparently some got out without them!

Ex Pres 

Hate to muddy your water, but my July 1974 delivered NR's serial number is four digits beginning with a 5. I don't recall any frame size stamp, but I guess I'm going to have to go back and check.

.

mech986 

francophile , could you elaborate on the other 3 Italvega bikes you've come across or point to any threads about them? I'd love to add them to my serial number database if you have any documentation or photos of them, that would also help.

Ex Pres , That's not a issue for me, there will be and have been apparent exceptions to the numbering schemes and apparent delivery dates. Since you have a Nuovo Record, do you have pics or threads about it? Would love to see if you have any pics of the Patent date on the Campagnolo rear derailleur mounting knuckle, or if it has the original Campagnolo hubs, whether there are the date stamps on the cones or nuts. I don't recall if the Stronglight cranks on the Nuovo Record model had build dates on them?

Did you buy this bike personally back in 1974 and where? I've been told its very possible that bikes were NOS (new old stock) and could have sat 6 months to a couple of years before being shipped or sold depending on the region and their distributor. From what I understand, there was an East Coast distributor / warehouse run by Ben Olken who had a working relationship with Ben Lawee who was the primary importer and distributed on the West Coast. I don't know if there was a specific midwest or southern US distributor or warehouse. Also, it was not uncommon for some Italvega models to be stripped for parts to put on other bikes or frames which then left partially built frames to be built by the shop or owner at a later time.

cocoabeachcrab 

the fine fellow at my LBS told me today that he thought Italvega also made frames for Torpado at some point... at least the lesser level bikes. I have a Torpado frame that has many similarities to the Italvega, and I can't decide whether to sell off or try to build up. It takes a 25mm seatpost, no frame material decals so I'm assuming Falk.

francophile 

Long gone, and long before I was so OCD about taking pictures. Sorry

francophile 

Almost, but not quite. Italvega was contract-built by Torressini, who also happened to make Torpado and several others which I believe I've heard T-Mar share.

mech986 

As mentioned above, the other way round. Torresini established Torpado (TORressini based in PADOva) and built Torpado bikes and frames as well as Italvega for US distribution under contract from Ben Lawee. Torpado's primarily appeared in Canada and Europe, a few have shown up in the US from time to time. Your model appears to be a nice frame with stamped dropouts and agree, probably Falck tubing straight gauge. Frame and fork probably weighs 6 pounds or so?

cocoabeachcrab 

that was very enlightening, thank you! it's certainly noticeably heavy, but not really molto pesante. always enjoy the education to be had from members here, and much appreciated. the seller of my frame had listed it as a Tornado.

tgot 

I'm not clear on what you mean. Do you mean that you would extend the existing slot, vertically, down through the area in which the tube is bulged?

tgot 

It seems unlikely; he wasn't even sure what model ItalVega he had. I got the impression that his enthusiasm and stable/backlog exceeded his time to work on vintage bikes. I really wanted to spend more time talking with the guy, but the shop was packed, folks were checking in on when their bikes would be ready, etc. I felt guilty!

That's pretty! The shining touches like water bottle bands and cable holders on the top-tube are really nice, matched with the fork socks chrome lugs, and chromed bands on the downtube. I confess I'm keeping this build L'Eroica compatible, with dreams of 2021. I've not got a Sugino triple crankset now, modern but not too jarring hopefully in a classic looking build. Doesn't reach the level of drillium, of course!

tgot 

That's beautiful. No way mine will ever match the paint and decals on there. Or chrome. Or.... I'm going to envision my frame having gone through "Too much hard living".

Two things, that maybe you could help with:
1) What spindle length is the bottom bracket? And, is the crankset a 46.5 chainline? I'm not sure what length I need for a 48/36/26 triple to clear the chainstays. They are pretty well crimped back to make clearance for the crankset.

2) Do you have an identification for paint that matches well with the existing green?

Thanks!

tgot 

So, @francophile....

Mine is a 58, if the seller measured correctly. I think the sizes were 55 and 58, so mine might just be 3cm larger than yours. I'm a little concerned that this is too large for me, but the short TT has me optimistic.

Why don't you hold onto yours until I get mine rideable and get a feel for how it fits me?

You may just get a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to trade a beautifully maintained and/or restored frame for a much uglier one that fits you!

mech986 

Spindle length will depend on how you achieve doing the triple. My Campagnolo double was custom drilled for a 74 BCD inner cog but with spacers really required a >119mm standard Campy 70-SS -120-X3 triple, so I used the later CPSC 70-SS-X3 124mm triple spindle which gave sufficient clearance. If you use a Triplizer type set of chainrings it may not require as much since there are no inner bolt heads to clear. All depends on which crankset you use, then correct fitting spindles and trial and error. More than once did a dry fit turn out to be too tight when spindle bolts tightented. However, the Rally may have additional clearances not available on the Super Speciale.

francophile 

There's another BF'er interested in mine, but not sure how that'll pan out. I assure you anyway: Yours isn't a 58 It's possibly the same size as mine or one size smaller - notice the length of the head tube, or picture the gap between the top tube and downtube - both of our bikes could fit approximately two top tubes in that gap. Your bike is probably a 56 (C-T) also. You can easily measure this on your own, measure from the middle of the bottom bracket to the center of the top tube. Obviously this is easier if you have a metric tape or ruler, but converting inches to cm is easy enough using Google search's built in conversion tool, just search ## inches in centimeters and it will tell you the answer.

On your questions above: For (1) I'm running a double, so my spindle length doesn't matter for you. You'll need to run a spindle 4-6mm longer to run a triple anyway. Most triple-equipped non-cottered bikes I've ridden were running 120-123 spindles. For (2) I didn't need any touch-up. There's probably a couple of spots I could find which could use something, but I haven't gone there yet.