ItalVega Gran Turismo - Frame-up build
#26
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Mine came with tubular Fiame rims and HF Nuovo Tipo hubs. I set them aside and put the Rigida 27" with HF Record. I am running Pasela 1" wide tires and could easily go to 1 1/8". It came with universal center pull brakes which I changed to Campy NR. Everything works fine.
I have 700c wheels and no 27" in the stable, so that was a motivation to go to that size.
Thanks.
#27
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I have not had it measured. The crimped top made me think it wouldn't be accurate. My vernier calipers wouldn't reach past that area, but maybe the bike shop has the right tool for that.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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Mine has the triangle Columbus sticker tretubi . It is 27 seat post. The seat post is Zeus Competition which is almost identical to Campagnolo Super Record(fluted). My bike came with tubular wheels that were the same as 700c . I did not want sew ups and decided to use the 27” Rigida wheels I had that are laced to Campagnolo Record High Flange hubs.
#29
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Seatpost is 27.0
After the suggestion to take the bike to an LBS, in the hope that it could be measured, I took it in yesterday. I missed the tech/mechanic who does all the real repairs, but the owner suggested I leave the bike to have the seat tube measured.
Today I went in, and the mechanic had swung by his house, brought the seatpost from *his* ItalVega to check, and was able to confirm that a 27.0 was indeed what I needed.
Sadly, the supplier they use had no 27.0 posts in stock, so I wasn't able to buy through them. And the tech declined my offer to charge me for 15 minutes of shop time. He enjoys owning and working on classic bikes!
I need to find a way to pay the store and mechanic. They mostly do mountain bikes, lots of full suspension, with some cruisers and e-bikes. So the parts they have that align with my ItalVega build are likely to be zero.
Anyway, I now have a 27.0 post on order from eBay.
I think the next step is probably to clean the fork, make sure the headset races are in good condition, and try metal polish and/or aluminum foil on the chrome.
Today I went in, and the mechanic had swung by his house, brought the seatpost from *his* ItalVega to check, and was able to confirm that a 27.0 was indeed what I needed.
Sadly, the supplier they use had no 27.0 posts in stock, so I wasn't able to buy through them. And the tech declined my offer to charge me for 15 minutes of shop time. He enjoys owning and working on classic bikes!
I need to find a way to pay the store and mechanic. They mostly do mountain bikes, lots of full suspension, with some cruisers and e-bikes. So the parts they have that align with my ItalVega build are likely to be zero.
Anyway, I now have a 27.0 post on order from eBay.
I think the next step is probably to clean the fork, make sure the headset races are in good condition, and try metal polish and/or aluminum foil on the chrome.
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Seat tubes are single butted, thick end toward the bottom.
if the tube had been inverted, then beyond the butt would be sloppy.
if was mine, I would attack the base of the lug ear slot with a small Dremel tip and subdue that stress riser, nail polish it after.
the lug ears look a bit askew- kind of normal actually from the lug maker.
as they have been filled with brass, check the bore alignment. Prob ok.
the hitting resistance beyond 75mm of insertion... take a very straight edge and place it against the outside of the tube below the lug at a number of radians. These were series production- stresses get built in and tubes were not always straight.
I have rolled out of the box tubes over a surface plate and some are warped.
the Japanese tube makers are the most consistently round.
depending on what you find maybe a reamer, brake hones smooth things but are not the tool to align a bore.
if the tube had been inverted, then beyond the butt would be sloppy.
if was mine, I would attack the base of the lug ear slot with a small Dremel tip and subdue that stress riser, nail polish it after.
the lug ears look a bit askew- kind of normal actually from the lug maker.
as they have been filled with brass, check the bore alignment. Prob ok.
the hitting resistance beyond 75mm of insertion... take a very straight edge and place it against the outside of the tube below the lug at a number of radians. These were series production- stresses get built in and tubes were not always straight.
I have rolled out of the box tubes over a surface plate and some are warped.
the Japanese tube makers are the most consistently round.
depending on what you find maybe a reamer, brake hones smooth things but are not the tool to align a bore.
#31
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One mystery is the year that the frame was made.
In the Univega appreciation thread, I thought I learned that the riveted headbadge would put this as '72 or earlier. As such, I expected a 4-digit serial number.
Instead:
Oddly, the 6-digit serial numbers are described at having a star, six-digits, and a star, with the star representing Vega. This bike seems to have slipped through before the * were added. Maybe one of the first after the 4->6 digit change? Number 2371 after the change?
In the Univega appreciation thread, I thought I learned that the riveted headbadge would put this as '72 or earlier. As such, I expected a 4-digit serial number.
Instead:
Oddly, the 6-digit serial numbers are described at having a star, six-digits, and a star, with the star representing Vega. This bike seems to have slipped through before the * were added. Maybe one of the first after the 4->6 digit change? Number 2371 after the change?
The good news is that there's no seatpost to be stuck!
The bad news is that the seat-tube top and binder-post area is a little crimped. I think probably tightened down onto a too-small seatpost.
I love the centerpull brake hanger things. I hope it cleans up OK, the rust seems mostly to be just surface.
The bolt is pretty bent. I may cut it off with a dremel cutting wheel to be able to remove.
I don't think opening the seattube back up will be too difficult. I'd like to ask for BF help if anyone knows the right diameter, so that I can get the correct size and know when I should quit spreading!
The bad news is that the seat-tube top and binder-post area is a little crimped. I think probably tightened down onto a too-small seatpost.
I love the centerpull brake hanger things. I hope it cleans up OK, the rust seems mostly to be just surface.
The bolt is pretty bent. I may cut it off with a dremel cutting wheel to be able to remove.
I don't think opening the seattube back up will be too difficult. I'd like to ask for BF help if anyone knows the right diameter, so that I can get the correct size and know when I should quit spreading!
Leave it to Lawee to channel a Raleigh International, association by color, chrome....
Smart marketing guy.
That seat lug really appears crimped closed as observed. As the lug ears appear to be filled with braze a bit, open this one up and check the seat tube size below the heat effected zone.
Could be anywhere between 26.8 and 27.2
Smart marketing guy.
That seat lug really appears crimped closed as observed. As the lug ears appear to be filled with braze a bit, open this one up and check the seat tube size below the heat effected zone.
Could be anywhere between 26.8 and 27.2
I have what I think is the next model up, the tretubi Nuovo Record model (forged drops w/hanger), from 1974 (4 digit s/n)
I'm 99% sure mine uses a 27.2 post.
My headbadge is different, more 3D than flat like yours. I'm guessing that makes yours a later year, but solely a guess (cost savings rather than model difference)
I love the ride - have taken it on centuries.
I'm 99% sure mine uses a 27.2 post.
My headbadge is different, more 3D than flat like yours. I'm guessing that makes yours a later year, but solely a guess (cost savings rather than model difference)
I love the ride - have taken it on centuries.
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Tgot, what type of Italvega does the mechanic own? Any chance we see a pic of it too?
Here's another way an Italvega can look set up for Eroica, my 1972 Super Speciale:
72 Super Speciale as prepped for Eroica California 2019
Here's another way an Italvega can look set up for Eroica, my 1972 Super Speciale:
72 Super Speciale as prepped for Eroica California 2019
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#33
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EDIT: too many dead brain cells. It is a 27.0 post. I just have no memory of having had one of these in Record laying around.
Last edited by Ex Pres; 07-28-20 at 07:15 PM.
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#34
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Hey tgot just popped in here to say: Got your twin!
I can't ride this comfortably due to size (I tried soooo hard) so I listed it for sale just before the pandemic exploded. I pulled the listing when I went to Switzerland in March so I still have the bike. If you need pics of anything on mine, ping me. Meanwhile, I'm posting some inspiration pics for you below.
GLHF with the rebuild! It's a really, really nice bike and the paint color is - in my opinion - the best, with the root beer color 3speedslow has coming in a close 2nd.
I can't ride this comfortably due to size (I tried soooo hard) so I listed it for sale just before the pandemic exploded. I pulled the listing when I went to Switzerland in March so I still have the bike. If you need pics of anything on mine, ping me. Meanwhile, I'm posting some inspiration pics for you below.
GLHF with the rebuild! It's a really, really nice bike and the paint color is - in my opinion - the best, with the root beer color 3speedslow has coming in a close 2nd.
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#35
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Very nice francophile! Can you get a shot of the underside of the bottom bracket and see if there is a serial number and frame size stamped there? Can you also verify that it takes a 27.0 mm seatpost? I believe your bike is likely a 4 digit serial number version, around 1972 or 73 due to the 3D headbadge outlined in gold.
I remember seeing your bike up for sale on ATL Craigslist, I wondered what happened to it, now we know. Did you do a repaint and new decals? The bike is in great shape and the paint literally shines! My Super Speciale pictured above has the original paint but all new decals since the originals had flaked off over the years which is quite common with the original water slide decals. I need to replace the replacement Columbus tubing decal though due to losing a little bit when I cleaned up with some cleaner that took part of it off. I used the Cyclomondo decals / stickers from Australia but that was a couple of years ago, currently I've heard it takes 4-6 weeks to get them due to Covid related slowdowns in mail services internationally.
I remember seeing your bike up for sale on ATL Craigslist, I wondered what happened to it, now we know. Did you do a repaint and new decals? The bike is in great shape and the paint literally shines! My Super Speciale pictured above has the original paint but all new decals since the originals had flaked off over the years which is quite common with the original water slide decals. I need to replace the replacement Columbus tubing decal though due to losing a little bit when I cleaned up with some cleaner that took part of it off. I used the Cyclomondo decals / stickers from Australia but that was a couple of years ago, currently I've heard it takes 4-6 weeks to get them due to Covid related slowdowns in mail services internationally.
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It was on display in a collection for a stint, I'd hoped that would lead to a sale, but no dice. It'll need to go sooner than later, space is at a premium with the pandemic ... work from home + school from home has resulted in having to re-org things and I've lost a significant portion of my workspace to desks and tables.
As for the bb shell. 6-digit serial with a star stamped on either side as shown here. No size stamped into the shell. This is the 4th Italvega I've had my hands on and I haven't seen one of those w/a size stamp on the BB shell. Digital caliper is on the fritz, eating batteries but caliper on the seat post just above the seat collar came in at 27.19 - 27.17 - 27.20 across three measures (measure, lock the caliper, slide it off the post), take it or leave it.
Don't have time to pull the seat post and check for measurements at the moment but if you really, really need a sanity check I can pull it just to confirm whether it's 27.0 or 27.2.
Back side of shell
Front side of shell
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#37
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Francophile, thanks for the additional information. Your *305198* (EDIT: *305196*, I misread the last numeral)) serial number confirms a clear 1973, May, 196th frame if my interpretation of the numbering scheme is correct. Its been hard to get serial numbers on the Gran Turismo, Gran Rally, and Nuovo Record's that I've seen primarily because the owners don't tend to photograph or show the numbers. It is not clear if each model had its own numbers or shared them across the production with the Super Speciale, later Superlight, and the base Nuovo or Viva Sport. Usually I've found the early Italvega's have the frame size stamped on BB socket for down tube or between the chain stay sockets, but apparently some got out without them!
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#38
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Francophile, thanks for the additional information. Your *305198* serial number confirms a clear 1973, May, 198th frame if my interpretation of the numbering scheme is correct. Its been hard to get serial numbers on the Gran Turismo, Gran Rally, and Nuovo Record's that I've seen primarily because the owners don't tend to photograph or show the numbers. It is not clear if each model had its own numbers or shared them across the production with the Super Speciale, later Superlight, and the base Nuovo or Viva Sport. Usually I've found the early Italvega's have the frame size stamped on BB socket for down tube or between the chain stay sockets, but apparently some got out without them!
.
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#39
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francophile , could you elaborate on the other 3 Italvega bikes you've come across or point to any threads about them? I'd love to add them to my serial number database if you have any documentation or photos of them, that would also help.
Ex Pres , That's not a issue for me, there will be and have been apparent exceptions to the numbering schemes and apparent delivery dates. Since you have a Nuovo Record, do you have pics or threads about it? Would love to see if you have any pics of the Patent date on the Campagnolo rear derailleur mounting knuckle, or if it has the original Campagnolo hubs, whether there are the date stamps on the cones or nuts. I don't recall if the Stronglight cranks on the Nuovo Record model had build dates on them?
Did you buy this bike personally back in 1974 and where? I've been told its very possible that bikes were NOS (new old stock) and could have sat 6 months to a couple of years before being shipped or sold depending on the region and their distributor. From what I understand, there was an East Coast distributor / warehouse run by Ben Olken who had a working relationship with Ben Lawee who was the primary importer and distributed on the West Coast. I don't know if there was a specific midwest or southern US distributor or warehouse. Also, it was not uncommon for some Italvega models to be stripped for parts to put on other bikes or frames which then left partially built frames to be built by the shop or owner at a later time.
Ex Pres , That's not a issue for me, there will be and have been apparent exceptions to the numbering schemes and apparent delivery dates. Since you have a Nuovo Record, do you have pics or threads about it? Would love to see if you have any pics of the Patent date on the Campagnolo rear derailleur mounting knuckle, or if it has the original Campagnolo hubs, whether there are the date stamps on the cones or nuts. I don't recall if the Stronglight cranks on the Nuovo Record model had build dates on them?
Did you buy this bike personally back in 1974 and where? I've been told its very possible that bikes were NOS (new old stock) and could have sat 6 months to a couple of years before being shipped or sold depending on the region and their distributor. From what I understand, there was an East Coast distributor / warehouse run by Ben Olken who had a working relationship with Ben Lawee who was the primary importer and distributed on the West Coast. I don't know if there was a specific midwest or southern US distributor or warehouse. Also, it was not uncommon for some Italvega models to be stripped for parts to put on other bikes or frames which then left partially built frames to be built by the shop or owner at a later time.
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#40
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the fine fellow at my LBS told me today that he thought Italvega also made frames for Torpado at some point... at least the lesser level bikes. I have a Torpado frame that has many similarities to the Italvega, and I can't decide whether to sell off or try to build up. It takes a 25mm seatpost, no frame material decals so I'm assuming Falk.
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francophile , could you elaborate on the other 3 Italvega bikes you've come across or point to any threads about them? I'd love to add them to my serial number database if you have any documentation or photos of them, that would also help.
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#42
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the fine fellow at my LBS told me today that he thought Italvega also made frames for Torpado at some point... at least the lesser level bikes. I have a Torpado frame that has many similarities to the Italvega, and I can't decide whether to sell off or try to build up. It takes a 25mm seatpost, no frame material decals so I'm assuming Falk.
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#43
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the fine fellow at my LBS told me today that he thought Italvega also made frames for Torpado at some point... at least the lesser level bikes. I have a Torpado frame that has many similarities to the Italvega, and I can't decide whether to sell off or try to build up. It takes a 25mm seatpost, no frame material decals so I'm assuming Falk.
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#44
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As mentioned above, the other way round. Torresini established Torpado (TORressini based in PADOva) and built Torpado bikes and frames as well as Italvega for US distribution under contract from Ben Lawee. Torpado's primarily appeared in Canada and Europe, a few have shown up in the US from time to time. Your model appears to be a nice frame with stamped dropouts and agree, probably Falck tubing straight gauge. Frame and fork probably weighs 6 pounds or so?
#45
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I'm not clear on what you mean. Do you mean that you would extend the existing slot, vertically, down through the area in which the tube is bulged?
#46
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Here's another way an Italvega can look set up for Eroica, my 1972 Super Speciale:
72 Super Speciale as prepped for Eroica California 2019
72 Super Speciale as prepped for Eroica California 2019
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#47
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Hey tgot just popped in here to say: Got your twin!
I can't ride this comfortably due to size (I tried soooo hard) so I listed it for sale just before the pandemic exploded. I pulled the listing when I went to Switzerland in March so I still have the bike. If you need pics of anything on mine, ping me. Meanwhile, I'm posting some inspiration pics for you below.
GLHF with the rebuild! It's a really, really nice bike and the paint color is - in my opinion - the best, with the root beer color 3speedslow has coming in a close 2nd.
I can't ride this comfortably due to size (I tried soooo hard) so I listed it for sale just before the pandemic exploded. I pulled the listing when I went to Switzerland in March so I still have the bike. If you need pics of anything on mine, ping me. Meanwhile, I'm posting some inspiration pics for you below.
GLHF with the rebuild! It's a really, really nice bike and the paint color is - in my opinion - the best, with the root beer color 3speedslow has coming in a close 2nd.
Two things, that maybe you could help with:
1) What spindle length is the bottom bracket? And, is the crankset a 46.5 chainline? I'm not sure what length I need for a 48/36/26 triple to clear the chainstays. They are pretty well crimped back to make clearance for the crankset.
2) Do you have an identification for paint that matches well with the existing green?
Thanks!
#48
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So, @francophile....
Mine is a 58, if the seller measured correctly. I think the sizes were 55 and 58, so mine might just be 3cm larger than yours. I'm a little concerned that this is too large for me, but the short TT has me optimistic.
Why don't you hold onto yours until I get mine rideable and get a feel for how it fits me?
You may just get a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to trade a beautifully maintained and/or restored frame for a much uglier one that fits you!
Mine is a 58, if the seller measured correctly. I think the sizes were 55 and 58, so mine might just be 3cm larger than yours. I'm a little concerned that this is too large for me, but the short TT has me optimistic.
Why don't you hold onto yours until I get mine rideable and get a feel for how it fits me?
You may just get a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to trade a beautifully maintained and/or restored frame for a much uglier one that fits you!
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That's beautiful. No way mine will ever match the paint and decals on there. Or chrome. Or.... I'm going to envision my frame having gone through "Too much hard living".
Two things, that maybe you could help with:
1) What spindle length is the bottom bracket? And, is the crankset a 46.5 chainline? I'm not sure what length I need for a 48/36/26 triple to clear the chainstays. They are pretty well crimped back to make clearance for the crankset.
2) Do you have an identification for paint that matches well with the existing green?
Thanks!
Two things, that maybe you could help with:
1) What spindle length is the bottom bracket? And, is the crankset a 46.5 chainline? I'm not sure what length I need for a 48/36/26 triple to clear the chainstays. They are pretty well crimped back to make clearance for the crankset.
2) Do you have an identification for paint that matches well with the existing green?
Thanks!
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So, @francophile....
Mine is a 58, if the seller measured correctly. I think the sizes were 55 and 58, so mine might just be 3cm larger than yours. I'm a little concerned that this is too large for me, but the short TT has me optimistic.
Why don't you hold onto yours until I get mine rideable and get a feel for how it fits me?
Mine is a 58, if the seller measured correctly. I think the sizes were 55 and 58, so mine might just be 3cm larger than yours. I'm a little concerned that this is too large for me, but the short TT has me optimistic.
Why don't you hold onto yours until I get mine rideable and get a feel for how it fits me?
On your questions above: For (1) I'm running a double, so my spindle length doesn't matter for you. You'll need to run a spindle 4-6mm longer to run a triple anyway. Most triple-equipped non-cottered bikes I've ridden were running 120-123 spindles. For (2) I didn't need any touch-up. There's probably a couple of spots I could find which could use something, but I haven't gone there yet.
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