Vintage low-end der shoot-out...
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Vintage low-end der shoot-out...
Okay, as some of you know, I'm building a touring/rough roads bike from an old '67 Japanese frame. I know it's not valuable and that is fine, I enjoy the whole rebuilding/project aspect. Anyway, I'm going to be shooting for lower gearing while keeping the weight somewhat in control, but again, durability and rough-road capability trump weight for this build. I have a 1st gen Shimano Lark (black) and a 1st gen Suntour GT I'm considering. I've been to the disraeligears site and understand his take, but looking for opinions. I should note, I'm leaning toward using a low range 32t which I get might be asking too much of the Lark which is listed at 28T but I reckon I might get it to work anyway. I'm leaning toward the heavier GT just as I have experience with them but am interested in the collected wisdom/experience here. If it helps I plan on using a Sugino crank I had lying around from cyclocross days with a 34/50T. I know that is pretty low, but I'm thinking of possibly even pulling a trailer with this bike on fire roads.
#2
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,649
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,704 Times
in
937 Posts
Any Suntour over pre 1985 Shimano stuff.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Likes For The Golden Boy:
#3
Shifting is fun!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,014
Bikes: Yes, please.
Mentioned: 281 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2200 Post(s)
Liked 4,630 Times
in
1,773 Posts
While I like SunTour as much as the next guy - and the V-GT really is an excellent piece of kit - I also like the earlier Shimano derailleurs. I'm not familiar with the Lark, but have experience with quite a few that were introduced in the seventies: Crane, Titlist, Altus, and 600. They all work well to very well. Especially the Altus, with its Centeron mechanism, impressed me.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seattle WA
Posts: 2,841
Bikes: 2009 Handsome Devil, 1987 Trek 520 Cirrus, 1978 Motobecane Grand Touring, 1987 Nishiki Cresta GT, 1989 Specialized Allez Former bikes; 1986 Miyata Trail Runner, 1979 Miyata 912, 2011 VO Rando, 1999 Cannondale R800, 1986 Schwinn Passage
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 796 Post(s)
Liked 522 Times
in
367 Posts
+1 on the Suntour stuff and also I find Disraeli Gears site helpful in figuring out max cog for a particular Vintage derailleur, it helped me figure out that the Suntour cyclone MK-II GT RD could handle a Shimano Mega Range 6 speed FW on a recent build.
Last edited by ryansu; 05-29-19 at 10:37 PM.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bloomington/Normal IL
Posts: 1,062
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Liked 237 Times
in
139 Posts
+1 on the Suntour stuff.
Virtually bombproof
Inexpensive to find if you have a co-op near you.
If you don't have a Co-op near you PM me and I will hook you up for the cost of postage.
Virtually bombproof
Inexpensive to find if you have a co-op near you.
If you don't have a Co-op near you PM me and I will hook you up for the cost of postage.
Likes For OTS:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,701
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 650 Times
in
336 Posts
I'll be the one to go against the tide and say use the Lark. Yeah the later Suntour derailleurs are better designed, but the Lark fits better with a 60s bike and is a unique piece of kit, even if low end. Might be a little more fumbly shifting but worth a shot.
If you don't end up going with the Lark, I'd think about buying it from you as I have a 60s bike it might work on.
If you don't end up going with the Lark, I'd think about buying it from you as I have a 60s bike it might work on.
Last edited by TenGrainBread; 05-30-19 at 05:57 AM.
Likes For TenGrainBread:
#7
Mr. Anachronism
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Somewhere west of Tobie's
Posts: 2,087
Bikes: fillet-brazed Chicago Schwinns, and some other stuff
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times
in
165 Posts
Any Suntour over pre 1985 Shimano stuff.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
__________________
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,882
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1860 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times
in
506 Posts
While I like SunTour as much as the next guy - and the V-GT really is an excellent piece of kit - I also like the earlier Shimano derailleurs. I'm not familiar with the Lark, but have experience with quite a few that were introduced in the seventies: Crane, Titlist, Altus, and 600. They all work well to very well. Especially the Altus, with its Centeron mechanism, impressed me.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 767 Post(s)
Liked 1,898 Times
in
889 Posts
@Weresquatch, as long as the unit you choose is in good condition, and has the right tooth capacity, you should be fine.
Derailleur discussions are interesting from my perspective because I haven't had very many bad experiences with them, and I've used lots of them. Many units that have been maligned for one reason or another have proved functional in my experiences.
I run a Suntour Honor on my UO-8 and it moves the chain just fine. No complaints.
There was a Shimano Eagle II that I ran on a 1x5 Schwinn Varsity, and I liked it a lot. Move the lever = move the chain.
One thing I will say about durability, which may or may not be an issue for many, is that I have had failure of Shimano plastic pivot spring housings seen on Titlist, Altus, and many others. They can crack and crumble unexpectedly.
Derailleur discussions are interesting from my perspective because I haven't had very many bad experiences with them, and I've used lots of them. Many units that have been maligned for one reason or another have proved functional in my experiences.
I run a Suntour Honor on my UO-8 and it moves the chain just fine. No complaints.
There was a Shimano Eagle II that I ran on a 1x5 Schwinn Varsity, and I liked it a lot. Move the lever = move the chain.
One thing I will say about durability, which may or may not be an issue for many, is that I have had failure of Shimano plastic pivot spring housings seen on Titlist, Altus, and many others. They can crack and crumble unexpectedly.
#10
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,800
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3594 Post(s)
Liked 3,404 Times
in
1,937 Posts
The nice thing about SunTour derailleurs is that they all perform pretty much the same, and that performance is uniformly excellent. The fancier models will be lighter and better finished, but don't perform better than the lower models. If weight isn't an issue, the steel V-GT or Honor models are also widely available and likely cost less than the aluminum V-GT Luxe.
Likes For JohnDThompson:
#11
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,705 Times
in
2,524 Posts
back in the '80s when we replaced the Huret Allvits on Schwinn Varsitys, the derailleur of choice was always a Shimano Eagle. The low-end Suntour was enough more that people didn't want to spend that much. But I would definitely take a Suntour GT over those things. The pivots on the Suntours did get sloppy after a while, but it didn't seem to affect shifting that much.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,333
Bikes: '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '72 Gitane tandem, '72 Raleigh Super Course, '73 Raleigh Gran Sport, '73 Colnago Super, '76 Fiorelli Coppi, '78 Raleigh SBDU Team Pro, '78 Trek 930, '81 Holdsworth Special 650B, '86 Masi GC, ’94 Bridgestone RB-T
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 787 Post(s)
Liked 522 Times
in
282 Posts
Any Suntour over pre 1985 Shimano stuff.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
__________________
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
Likes For jeirvine:
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the input. I have to clean up the GT and Lark but they both seem to be in good working order. The frame I'm using DID come with the Lark but I think I'm going with the GT just for the better wrapping ability. TenGrain....send me a DM if you want the Lark (I might even make it all spiffy for you before I ship it).
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 251
Bikes: 2002 Trek 800 Singletrack, 1982 Bridgestone Spica
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times
in
32 Posts
Any Suntour over pre 1985 Shimano stuff.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
I'd go shopping for a V-GT Luxe. Really, one of the all time great derailleurs- and it was inexpensive enough to be considered "low end" even though it was a complete stud, not only for its time- but a completely all around good, high performance RD.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I can do that if there is some interest....there are some pictures in a thread of what we believe to be a '67 Kenko (pre '69 merger that produced Zebrakenko) that had some peculiar gearing (48/40) and a tall head tube for the time that makes me think it was maybe one of the "camping" or rando editions. When I was cleaning it though, I found a bent steering tube....dumb. I was going to use a '70 Jupiter Beat frame I picked up at the same time instead, but the geometry of the Kenko is just better for what I want to do.
#17
Mr. Anachronism
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Somewhere west of Tobie's
Posts: 2,087
Bikes: fillet-brazed Chicago Schwinns, and some other stuff
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times
in
165 Posts
I can do that if there is some interest....there are some pictures in a thread of what we believe to be a '67 Kenko (pre '69 merger that produced Zebrakenko) that had some peculiar gearing (48/40) and a tall head tube for the time that makes me think it was maybe one of the "camping" or rando editions. When I was cleaning it though, I found a bent steering tube....dumb. I was going to use a '70 Jupiter Beat frame I picked up at the same time instead, but the geometry of the Kenko is just better for what I want to do.
I found this thread you started... is that where you posted pics before?
Looks like a great place to start!
__________________
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates
"My only true wisdom is in knowing I have none" -Socrates
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Yes, please. I suspect I'm not the only one who would find both of those bikes interesting.
I found this thread you started... is that where you posted pics before?
Looks like a great place to start!
I found this thread you started... is that where you posted pics before?
Looks like a great place to start!
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ity-bikes.html
If I start the thread I'll post pics of the old Jupiter too...they're both low-zoot steel, but it'll be fun.
#19
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,509
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7354 Post(s)
Liked 2,487 Times
in
1,442 Posts
Why not try more than one? They're easy to swap.
I hated the Lark and Eagle back in the day, but only because I was a snob. Now I'm a reverse snob, and I'm amazed at how well they work. Some of them even have built-in bash guards.
I hated the Lark and Eagle back in the day, but only because I was a snob. Now I'm a reverse snob, and I'm amazed at how well they work. Some of them even have built-in bash guards.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Likes For noglider:
#20
~>~
The basic shop replacement derails that we stocked back when in bulk were ST Honor and V-GT Luxe, with a ST Perfect FW and Union chain they were the affordable upgrade and fix all in one.
It was many a Simplex that was binned and replaced w/ ST for happy and frugal customers.
-Bandera
It was many a Simplex that was binned and replaced w/ ST for happy and frugal customers.
-Bandera
Likes For Bandera:
#21
Thrifty Bill
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,526
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 965 Times
in
629 Posts
I’m a Frank Berto guy and the Vx Luxe GT is the winner. I keep a drawer full of these in preparation of the Zombie apocalypse. OK kidding on the zombies but not on the drawer full.
When the Suntour patent ran out, everyone copied it. Kind of tells you how good the design was.
Had you bought that bike new in 1967, it would not have been surprising if in 1973 you would have considered upgrading the RD, and the V GT Luxe would have been a fine choice, and not very expensive either.
When the Suntour patent ran out, everyone copied it. Kind of tells you how good the design was.
Had you bought that bike new in 1967, it would not have been surprising if in 1973 you would have considered upgrading the RD, and the V GT Luxe would have been a fine choice, and not very expensive either.
Last edited by wrk101; 05-30-19 at 09:49 PM.
Likes For wrk101:
#22
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,509
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7354 Post(s)
Liked 2,487 Times
in
1,442 Posts
I just came upon a Vx derailleur. Anyone want it?
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
#24
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,509
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7354 Post(s)
Liked 2,487 Times
in
1,442 Posts
OK. It's a medium-length cage. Try it. It might work. Send me an email to tom@noglider.com
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#25
Senior Member
Thread Starter
OK. It's a medium-length cage. Try it. It might work. Send me an email to tom@noglider.com