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Talking with police about traffic violation

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Talking with police about traffic violation

Old 08-27-20, 09:09 AM
  #51  
I-Like-To-Bike
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Originally Posted by kingston
That would never have happened to me.
2) On the rare brief occasions I do ride on roads like that, I take the whole lane so a close pass is impossible.
? What makes you think a close pass is impossible, if you "take the whole lane"?
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Old 08-27-20, 09:30 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
? What makes you think a close pass is impossible, if you "take the whole lane"?
A pass like the one in the video where a car pulls up alongside and crowds the cyclist in the same lane is impossible if you take the lane. The car has to move over to the other lane to pass. They can still pass close, but not like in the video where they are sharing the same lane. It's impossible if the cyclist is in the middle of the lane.
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Old 08-27-20, 09:36 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by kingston
That would never have happened to me.
1) I avoid roads like that when I'm JRA because they are terrible for cycling
2) On the rare brief occasions I do ride on roads like that, I take the whole lane so a close pass is impossible
3) I wouldn't have stopped for so long at that red light. I go as soon as it's clear. From what I saw in the video, I probably wouldn't have stopped at all.
4) If I do get a close pass, I just keep riding, no harm no foul as far as I'm concerned. It's not my job to educate drivers who don't care anyway.
5) If a driver stopped to confront me I would have just ridden right by. I have nothing to gain from a confrontation with a driver.
About #1 , when riding a bike for transportation, you will need to use less than great roads. When biking for recreation, it's easy avoid these roads.

About #2 , I've had more than enough close passes while riding every possible lane position, I know that lane position has no effects the punish pass. These people are making an attempt to intimidate, and your lane position will never change their aggressive behavior.

About #3 , that's a moving violation.

About #4 & #5 , you do you ... cool? cool.

Additionally, I have asked no one to give advice on my route, my lane position, the color of my bike, my helmet, the best GoPro settings, or .... This post was about feeling stressed about calling the PD about a traffic violation - read the headline - I shared information about the event only for context.

I could simply avoid all of this by simply driving my car to the store.
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Old 08-27-20, 09:58 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
.... This post was about feeling stressed about calling the PD about a traffic violation - read the headline - I shared information about the event only for context...
I get the impression that you are looking for it or at least not trying very hard to avoid it. As I said, that would never happen to me.
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Old 08-27-20, 10:21 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by kingston
I get the impression that you are looking for it or at least not trying very hard to avoid it. As I said, that would never happen to me.
Quoting the OP: " .... just needed to vent it out a little."

Also, c
learly, you are amazing!

If you'd like to give advice, I created that thread 3 years ago: https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-...ead-again.html Enjoy!
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Old 08-27-20, 10:43 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by kingston
That would never have happened to me.
1) I avoid roads like that when I'm JRA because they are terrible for cycling
2) On the rare brief occasions I do ride on roads like that, I take the whole lane so a close pass is impossible
3) I wouldn't have stopped for so long at that red light. I go as soon as it's clear. From what I saw in the video, I probably wouldn't have stopped at all.
4) If I do get a close pass, I just keep riding, no harm no foul as far as I'm concerned. It's not my job to educate drivers who don't care anyway.
5) If a driver stopped to confront me I would have just ridden right by. I have nothing to gain from a confrontation with a driver.
I'll take issue with points #2 and 3. Hypno Toad was positioned in the right tire track, which is generally where I position myself to take a lane. Since I agree with him, we must both be right . Please refer to the "road position rabbithole" where everyone is wrong for further reading.

I'd wait at the light, because it's clear that the signal will activate regardless of traffic flow. It's sensor lights I am more proactive about.

I agree about letting it go. It's difficult for such a careless act, but the risk to reward for a confrontation isn't in my favor either.
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Old 08-27-20, 11:09 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam
Since I agree with him, we must both be right.
I don't claim to be right. I do aspire to lead a stress-free life, so just sharing some of the things that work for me. It's not advice. Everyone can obviously to do whatever they want.
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Old 08-27-20, 11:21 AM
  #58  
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This is why I refuse to cam up and report. I would find the entire process too stressful. But I'm glad there are cyclists willing to do so. Thank you.

The "that's not a close pass" (or it wouldn't bother me) posts are misguided. If it's less than 3 feet it's illegal and increases the risk of injury or death to the cyclist. You're advising everyone just stfu and accept it? No, we won't.

Last edited by AlmostTrick; 08-27-20 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 08-27-20, 12:21 PM
  #59  
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I don't ever call police with incidents involving a motorist and me, because it's basically my word against theirs -- but I don't ride with a camera. As for the video in the OP, I don't see much of an issue with what the driver did, that's not to say that he wasn't being an axxhole, but the video just doesn't capture it, which is the case with many videos/photos, they just don't always capture what happened or leave one with an appreciation of the actual reality. A good example is watching cyclists climbing a hill...the camera just a can't give you an appreciation of the actual incline.

I've also had discussions with police, on at least two occasions, where the cop didn't understand laws concerning cyclists, so you know the average motorists don't understand the laws. My approach is to simply follow the law and be an ambassador on the bike, but some of the things I do, I know confuses motorists, such as taking the lane when waiting for a red light, and then frapping as soon as traffic gets faster than I can maintain and I'm no long in danger of being a victim of a Right Hook. When motorists see a car in front of me suddenly make a right turn (many times without a signal) I'm sure they understand why I take the lane.

This is the sad truth. No one understand the laws, because there are so few of us cyclists out on the roads. Furthermore, there are a lot of idiots on bikes out on the roads.
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Old 08-27-20, 01:06 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by kingston
A pass like the one in the video where a car pulls up alongside and crowds the cyclist in the same lane is impossible if you take the lane. The car has to move over to the other lane to pass. They can still pass close, but not like in the video where they are sharing the same lane. It's impossible if the cyclist is in the middle of the lane.

All I can say is you've never ridden in NH if you believe that. They just slop halfway between lanes and close pass me while I'm in the lane. They often get even cuter about it, gunning their engines and the like.
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Old 08-27-20, 01:12 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
This is why I refuse to cam up and report. I would find the entire process too stressful. But I'm glad there are cyclists willing to do so. Thank you.

The "that's not a close pass" (or it wouldn't bother me) posts are misguided. If it's less than 3 feet it's illegal and increases the risk of injury or death to the cyclist. You're advising everyone just stfu and accept it? No, we won't.

I didn't say it shouldn't bother him, I just noted that I was very used to Minnesota drivers and that would probably have bothered me there, but in the context I ride now, I doubt I'd even notice it. I'm very vocal at expressing my displeasure, but I really would never complete a ride if I had to get the police involved in something like that.
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Old 08-30-20, 06:58 PM
  #62  
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Back in february a car tried to hit me after overtaking me. I saw the driver turned back and laughed and went ahead. I caught him after 1km and shouted really loud "get out if you're a man". So the guys went out of the car and started kicking my bike... they smelled alcohol and the situation got really nervous when a nearby cop came to see what's going on and a girl driving behind me stopped to tell the cop what she saw. The drunks turned out to be cops themselves. They left and the cop told me he knew they were wrong but he couldn't do anything.
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Old 08-30-20, 08:47 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by holytrousers
The drunks turned out to be cops themselves. They left and the cop told me he knew they were wrong but he couldn't do anything.
He could do something about but didn't have the integrity to do it. And we wonder why LEOs act the way they do.
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Old 08-30-20, 10:25 PM
  #64  
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As a former police officer, I will tell you not to waste your time sending videos like yours to the police. A video is worth something if it records a crime or an accident, but the police will not write a ticket for a driving infraction they don't witness personally. There is a difference between a crime and a driving infraction, you yourself can arrest someone who commits a crime (even if that person is a police officer), but you cannot do anything about someone disobeying traffic laws. Police have the authority to enforce traffic laws and cite someone for a traffic infraction, you do not, because an infraction is not a crime. Even if the police did act, the owner of the car could claim someone else was driving, unless your video is clear enough to show the driver. He or she could claim that they thought they were more than 3 feet away when they passed, or that the video from your camera is too distorted to accurately judge the distances, etc. The police are not going to spend hours running license plate numbers, visiting the driver's home, taking statements, filling out forms, appearing in court, etc for an incident where no one was hurt, and no property was damaged. The amount of time necessary do do so would be greater than any fine they could levy against the driver.

If I had a dollar for every time a car passed within 3 feet of me, I could buy a new bike. If you don't want drivers passing too closely to you when you are on a ride, you had best ride on bike paths, or get off your bike and quit now and take up another sport.
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Old 08-30-20, 10:52 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling
As a former police officer, I will tell you not to waste your time sending videos like yours to the police.
See post #9 in this thread.
Thankfully, the police here in CO don't have your attitude.
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Old 08-31-20, 12:47 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Shimagnolo
See post #9 in this thread.
Thankfully, the police here in CO don't have your attitude.
I worked in Liberty City, in the Miami metro area. Those who live in the area call it the "Pork and Beans." There is no part of any city in Colorado which has nearly as much crime or violence, and South Florida in general has enough crime that police officers are not going to waste precious time chasing people who pass a bicycle too closely.

Colorado sounds like Mayberry, I suppose they issue citations to people who don't clean up after their dogs.
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Old 08-31-20, 07:27 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling
As a former police officer, I will tell you not to waste your time sending videos like yours to the police. A video is worth something if it records a crime or an accident, but the police will not write a ticket for a driving infraction they don't witness personally. There is a difference between a crime and a driving infraction, you yourself can arrest someone who commits a crime (even if that person is a police officer), but you cannot do anything about someone disobeying traffic laws. Police have the authority to enforce traffic laws and cite someone for a traffic infraction, you do not, because an infraction is not a crime. Even if the police did act, the owner of the car could claim someone else was driving, unless your video is clear enough to show the driver. He or she could claim that they thought they were more than 3 feet away when they passed, or that the video from your camera is too distorted to accurately judge the distances, etc. The police are not going to spend hours running license plate numbers, visiting the driver's home, taking statements, filling out forms, appearing in court, etc for an incident where no one was hurt, and no property was damaged. The amount of time necessary do do so would be greater than any fine they could levy against the driver.

If I had a dollar for every time a car passed within 3 feet of me, I could buy a new bike. If you don't want drivers passing too closely to you when you are on a ride, you had best ride on bike paths, or get off your bike and quit now and take up another sport.
I understand a ticket is not in the cards, see quoted text from OP:
Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
I have no expectation of a citation for the driver, I do ask the PD to call the owner of the vehicle and inform them that a bike is a legal vehicle on the road and that 3 feet is the minimum required space while passing.
Bluntly stated, this is not as much time or effort as you make it out to be. This is a wealthy suburb of Minneapolis, not Miami, police work loads are very different. BTW - I hate biking in Florida, I spend a ton of time there on business ... the infrastructure is awful, the people driving are hateful, and apparently the local PD is OK with that.

Bluntly stated, your post underscores the challenge of talking with the police. Unlike the lax attitude you shared, I'm leading an advocacy group for people getting around with out a car. Waiting for a crash, and somebody on a gurney or in the back of the coroner truck is not acceptable. Since no city will spend the money to make bike trails to get you everywhere you need to go, it is my goal to proactively make our roads safer for everyone. Thankfully, the PD in my town is receptive and helpful with this goal.

FWIW - I'd have a fleet of top of the line bikes if I had a dollar for every pass within 3 feet. I've been riding the roads for transportation since the early '80s, I log 5,000 to 6,000 miles per year. I cherry pick the drivers to report based on a few things, for example this guy had nothing but room on a 4-lane road with a 30 mph speed limit ... this man went out of his way to intimidate. A call from a cop might get him to think twice before using his vehicle intimate another person using a bike on the road.

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 09-01-20 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 08-31-20, 08:16 AM
  #68  
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Here is an example of cager-convicted-by-video a few years back, that made a lot of news.
CO law allows motor vehicles to cross double yellow lines to pass cyclists, so he has no reason not to pass.
https://azbikelaw.org/driver-convict...king-incident/

Another case sometime back (for which I can't find links right now) involved 2 people in a truck harassing cyclists on a mountain road. Video posted online brought it to the attention of law enforcement. The punchline: The video was taken, and posted, by the morons themselves.

But my all time favorite is this story: https://www.bicycling.com/news/a2610...ops-bike-path/
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Old 08-31-20, 08:23 AM
  #69  
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From my personal experience, front mounted cameras really don't give a close pass much justice, but my rear facing camera mounted closest to the traffic side, and on the most stable point of my bike, really gives those close passing situations some justice.
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Old 08-31-20, 11:21 AM
  #70  
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It has been my experience that officers tend to prefer not to make the effort of goingoout there, investigating a violation, discussingwwhat actually happened, filing the paperwork... etc. as long as no one got hurt.
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Old 08-31-20, 11:46 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Olefeller77
I hate to be "that guy" but It appears the three riders up to your right optioned to stay off the busy street. Is that an option.
I just saw the longer clip. I live in central Ohio. That road looks almost empty to me.
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Old 08-31-20, 11:53 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
OK, I usually hate to do this, but really.

A 13 wide curb lane at a the top of a T intersection is wide enough to share with a Honda Accord.

Don't lead with your chin and then complain about the boxing referee.

There ought to be THREE people learning from this, but sadly, I suspect ZERO have.

-mr. bill
I'm with you Mr. Bill. But I'm the guy who doesn't care how close the car gets, so long as we don't make contact. Would it be nice if the driver moved over when there's space? Of course. But I would also prefer that a driver slip by with 2" to spare than to stay behind me, with traffic backing up and pissing everyone off.
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Old 08-31-20, 12:36 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
Ugh ... I find it stressful to call the police to report a traffic violation. More often than not, I end up educating the officer about laws for riding a bike on the roads. Sometimes I have a receptive officer other times they are openly dismissive. I have no expectation of a citation for the driver, I do ask the PD to call the owner of the vehicle and inform them that a bike is a legal vehicle on the road and that 3 feet is the minimum required space while passing. Today's officer was receptive but I needed to have statutes in front of me, since he was unaware of them. .... just needed to vent it out a little.

Since this is BF ... I know this could get into a few rabbitholes, so I'll share additional information: Statute 169.18, Subdivision 3: (3) the operator of a motor vehicle overtaking a bicycle or individual proceeding in the same direction on the roadway shall leave a safe distance, but in no case less than three feet clearance, when passing the bicycle or individual and shall maintain clearance until safely past the overtaken bicycle or individual.

Bicyclists are considered traffic based on Minnesota Statute 169.011, Subdivision 84 and have the same rights and responsibilities applicable to the driver of a vehicle according to Minnesota Statute 169.222, Subdivision 1.
Minnesota Statute 169.011 states: "Traffic" means pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, vehicles, streetcars and other conveyances, either singly or together, while using any highway for purposes of travel.
Reference: https://www.bikemn.org/education/min...20a%20roadway.

GoPro video of the pass that got me to call the police:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAKAc0HId6g

Postscript: just talked to the officer again. He contacted the driver, who claimed I was weaving unpredictably. Sadly the officer had no interest in the video which clearly shows no weaving. The only good take away from this effort is two more people are aware that 3 feet are required when passing a person using a bike on the road.

I have found that the police, especially lately, are not going to do much in cases like this, in a lot of cities they are engaged in riot control, are on edge from riots or are working so much overtime that many are tired and getting a call from a cyclist is low priority unless someone is injured, they didn't see the offense and don't have time to pursue a driver that is now long gone because they are going to hear the same stories from the driver...."I didn't see them", or "they were in the middle of the street".....the law may be on your side, but.....
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Old 08-31-20, 01:11 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by TommyTwoTone
I have found that the police, especially lately, are not going to do much in cases like this, in a lot of cities they are engaged in riot control, are on edge from riots or are working so much overtime that many are tired and getting a call from a cyclist is low priority unless someone is injured, they didn't see the offense and don't have time to pursue a driver that is now long gone because they are going to hear the same stories from the driver...."I didn't see them", or "they were in the middle of the street".....the law may be on your side, but.....
Roits? Minnetonka has not had riots, they offered some support to Minneapolis months ago.

Please reread my posts in this thread - I mean you actually quoted the OP: "I have no expectation of a citation for the driver, I do ask the PD to call the owner of the vehicle and inform them that a bike is a legal vehicle on the road and that 3 feet is the minimum required space while passing." - this isn't much effort when I have all the details: licence plate, vehicle make & model, location, time, description of driver - with this info, the officer has a very easy job confirming my details and making a call. If they don't have time, they won't call me back ... I've seen that too, NBD.

Calling the police is an effort to proactively advocate for safer streets. Once a person is injured in a crash, we have already failed. I know this point is lost on many.
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Old 08-31-20, 01:19 PM
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comfort rider
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Your video definitely shows that the automobilist got real close (maybe 18"). However, I see a paved bike path paralleling that road. Why aren't you on that?
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