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Intentionally run off road by semi (no damage)

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Intentionally run off road by semi (no damage)

Old 09-13-20, 06:14 PM
  #26  
genec
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Everything I wrote is 100% correct. It seems to me that you may unwittingly conflating several of the rules. I said a vessel cannot be restricted in its ability to maneuver (RAM) on account of it's size. Your post above counters that by speaking to constrained by draft. They are separate restrictions in the rules and purposefully so.

It is the nature of a vessel's work that will make them RAM. Constrained is used in only one context in the Navigation Rules. Constrained by draft. That applies only in international waters not in inland waters. A vessel is never "restricted in its ability" to maneuver on account of size, draft or dimension. A vessel can ONLY be restricted in its ability to maneuver on account of the nature of its work.

Here are a few definitions from RULE 3 International: Constrained by draft isn't defined in the Inland Rules. The RAM definition definition is identical in the Inland and International rules.

(h) The term “vessel constrained by her draft” means a power-driven vessel which, because of her draft in relation to the available depth and width of navigable water is severely restricted in her ability to deviate from the course she is following.

(g) The term “vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver” means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to maneuver...


Rule 9 is the narrow channel rule. It is here that size (length) matters.

(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.This is where we see length come into play.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/navrules.pdf
ahhh yes, you note the small vessel and overlook the large vessels, the metaphor for the large truck mentioned.

Either way however... in the case of cycling, you may not run over those in front of you... ie those in traffic circles ahead of them.
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Old 09-13-20, 06:56 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by epnnf
Nobody was hurt; there was no contact.

I saw the whole thing go down in front of me; I safely came to a stop. I’m positive the driver intentionally tried to run me off the road; but why? What should I have done?
Based on your Full Report you must have done things right, no injuries, no paperwork. I assume a semi will use the whole road and then some when they turn. The driver won't even feel a bump as he's grinding me into sausage. You were aware enough to see what could happen and use maneuver and thrust reversers to avoid an accident. Have a beer and call it good!
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Old 09-14-20, 05:35 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
So I'm lost, mate. I don't get what you're going on about? You made a rather rude accusation and now offer nothing specific in support for it after I questioned it.

Avoiding collisions isn't a "right of way" issue (it's weird to talk about "right of way" here anyway). Captains have to attempt to avoid collisions regardless of any "right of way" issue.
Not sure why you bring this up. There is no disagreement.

No, your "rowboat" here doesn't get special "right of way" privileges.
Never said it did.

I realize that some folks are challenged by context, but no worries. Be safe, mate.
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Old 09-14-20, 05:51 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
If your FIL means to be prudent and give way to larger vessels, then this may be a valid strategy to avoid collisions. On the other hand, there are a lot of small vessels with limited speed and maneuverability that do have legal right-of-way. Assuming that a big power boat is not in a limited special category, the operator is required to alter course. Failure to do this is criminal negligence.
This is wrong.

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
Not sure why you bring this up. There is no disagreement.
Because (it appears) you are confusing the requirement to avoid a collision with the "right of way".

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
Originally Posted by njkayaker
Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
If your FIL means to be prudent and give way to larger vessels, then this may be a valid strategy to avoid collisions. On the other hand, there are a lot of small vessels with limited speed and maneuverability that do have legal right-of-way. Assuming that a big power boat is not in a limited special category, the operator is required to alter course. Failure to do this is criminal negligence.
So, what you said here is wrong. (Sailboats are special but that's not related to being "small vessels".) A jetski might have more responsibility to try to avoid a collision but that's not a "right of way" issue (that's implied in the "risk of collision" rule.
Is it? How so?
... now offer nothing specific in support for it after I questioned it.
You mean like what you did here?

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
If your FIL means to be prudent and give way to larger vessels, then this may be a valid strategy to avoid collisions. On the other hand, there are a lot of small vessels with limited speed and maneuverability that do have legal right-of-way. Assuming that a big power boat is not in a limited special category, the operator is required to alter course. Failure to do this is criminal negligence.
Never said it did.
You implied it here.

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
I realize that some folks are challenged by context, but no worries. Be safe, mate.
You aren't making sense.

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-14-20 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 09-14-20, 06:29 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
This is wrong.


Because (it appears) you are confusing the requirement to avoid a collision with the "right of way".


You mean like what you did here?


You implied it here.


You aren't making sense.
Inventive parsing with a bit of imagination about context and semantics and you've got yourself all wound up sideways, mate. We are on the same page - you just don't realize it. If I ever encounter you in that little boat of yours I'll be sure to give you a wide berth. Stay safe.
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Old 09-14-20, 06:41 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
Inventive parsing with a bit of imagination about context and semantics and you've got yourself all wound up sideways, mate. We are on the same page - you just don't realize it. If I ever encounter you in that little boat of yours I'll be sure to give you a wide berth. Stay safe.
​​​​​​Your use of "right of way" in this discussion is incorrect. Using the phrase in talking about operating boats is weird.

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
If your FIL means to be prudent and give way to larger vessels, then this may be a valid strategy to avoid collisions. On the other hand, there are a lot of small vessels with limited speed and maneuverability that do have legal right-of-way. Assuming that a big power boat is not in a limited special category, the operator is required to alter course. Failure to do this is criminal negligence.
​​​​
This is still wrong. The navregs I linked to (which you weirdly say is not providing support) say nothing like this.

The requirement to avoid a collision is not a "right of way" issue. Confounding the two things is sloppy.

The requirement to avoid a collision supercedes any consideration of "right of way".

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-14-20 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 09-14-20, 06:53 PM
  #32  
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Never pass on a chance to argue over any little thing.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:37 PM
  #33  
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Oh man, you've done it now. Using the adjective 'little' in the middle of a p*ss*ng contest ... run, save yourself, lock in ten, nine, eight, seven ...
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Old 09-15-20, 04:59 AM
  #34  
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I'm just going to leave this here--I rarely have problems with semis as a cyclist or a driver because a) most semi drivers are good and b) I think I understand the physics and try to give them wide berth. However, there are clearly some semi drivers who will insist on routing turns in intersections they really can't negotiate safely just to save a couple blocks. Unfortunately, some of them are attracted to a particular corner about 3 blocks from my home. It isn't a major problem on a bike, but in my car, I've had to illegally back up from where I was waiting for the light to change because a semi insisted on starting a right turn late on a yellow light. And no, on that particular corner, you cannot see the semi until it actually reaches the corner, so there's no warning you need to idle about a quarter block up to give the driver room.
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Old 09-15-20, 05:12 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Olefeller77
Never pass on a chance to argue over any little thing.
Right ,enough of this diversion into admiralty and maritime law. Let's get back on topic by discussing how air traffic controllers assign priority.
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Old 09-15-20, 08:59 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Olefeller77
Never pass on a chance to argue over any little thing.
This is the argument & sarcasm forum.
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Old 09-15-20, 09:18 AM
  #37  
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