HelpSingularity 

I recently purchased a new BikeFriday Diamond Llama.
Use cases include jra and loaded (to the gills) touring.
I was wondering if anyone has experience and can recommend a kickstand or a solution to keeping the bike upright?
I've seen the behind the bb single leg and dual leg versions.
I've also the type that mounts close to the rear hub, but I don't know if they'll actually fit a BikeFriday rear triangle.
The Click-Stand looks kind of interesting, has anyone used one on a BikeFriday?
I'm concerned about how a kickstand would affect the folding and carrying of the bike.
thanks in advance
Larry
PS After typing this out and thinking about it, it seems that I'm leaning towards the Click-Stand.But I'm willing to listen to any suggestions or helpful hints. thanks again

Duragrouch

I'd ask Bike Friday, especially with regard to interference when folding, they should know. But in general, the stands that attach just forward of the rear axle on the non-drive side, have two advantages: 1) More stable, as they are supporting closer to the largest weight and moment (rear panniers, mounted high), and 2) The kickstand load is input into the frame over a larger area, that being the spread between the seatstay and chainstay at that point, provided the tubing there is designed for clamp and bending loads, so check with Bike Friday. Another note: I always used to park my bike with the front wheel steered to the left (like a motorcycle), but in recent years discovered it is more stable with the wheel turned to the right; I scienced this out and determined that due to the steering geometry, turned right makes a little longer contact point in front, pushing the bike up, just slightly less inclined, which for my kickstand length, is more stable (I did have to fit a longer stand when using a bit larger tires). Stand length is critical, most stands come long and are trimmed to best size, or adjustable height. A double-stand may be nice, the bike not inclined, but that also requires rolling aft and possibly lifting the bike up as the stand hits the ground, and my bike is heavy when loaded. Motorcycles with center stands, the operator rolls the bike aft with some momentum to get up on the center stand, and possibly may also have an offset lever on the stand to push on with the foot, to add moment to deploy the stand.

seat_boy

Every BF I've owned has had a built in kickstand plate just behind the bottom bracket.

HelpSingularity 

It was more a question of which, if any kickstand works very well with a loaded down BikeFriday, not really where one could install a kickstand. I know from my youth that the traditional kickstand installed behind the bb was not always idiot-proof. I was just wondering if anyone had stumbled across something that they thought really rocked. Then there is the possible issue of a kickstand getting in the way when the rear triangle is folded under, or is it an issue at all?
Sorry for not being more clear.

seat_boy

The kickstand that I use doesn't interfere with the fold at all. It seems more stable than a similar kickstand on a bigger wheeled bike... maybe because the bike's center of gravity is lower? (due to smaller wheels).

One advantage of this location: when I stop with my BF and rest my bike between my legs (for instance, to check my phone, use an ATM, etc), the bike always falls over. The top tube is too low to securely rest against my leg. But, I can reach back and use the kickstand in this situation, and it works well.

john m flores 

How does the kickstand perform with rear panniers? I have a Zizzo with a kickstand in the same location as yours and it's not very stable when I have a rear load.

seat_boy

If that's for me, I can't say. I've only ever used my bike as shown above, never with rear panniers.

Reddleman

I’ve used single and double footed centre mounted kickstands with rear panniers without much issue, for both touring and supermarket trips. Single stands are more stable on rougher ground as they stick out further. I suggest getting one with a larger foot and possibly designed for ebikes if you’re regularly loading your bike up to ebike weights with panniers.



In this case, the kickstand is a BBB Citykick. It’s quite chunky but still folds up neatly along the chainstay, and has an adjustable foot that needs no tools to alter. Although the manufacturer claims it’s just for 26”-29” wheeled bikes, it fits fine on a Tern. It came with a top plate to sandwich the chainstays which was unnecessary due to the existence of a plate to bolt to on the frame.

With a double foot central stand, I found that it wasn’t great on non-level ground as the span was lesser than that of a single foot stand. Also, they require the rear of the bike to be lifted off the ground to fold which can be awkward with a heavy load.

HelpSingularity 

My experience, like John Flores', from back in the day, was a bike, loaded for bear, (meaning loaded with gear for a self contained tour, panniers and such) and a kickstand did not play well together. On more than a few occasions I would balance the bicycle and walk away and then the bicycle would tip over on its own. I was just wondering if anyone had personal experience with some kind of device that they used on their BikeFriday (when loaded with said gear) to keep their bicycle in an upright position when there is nothing in the immediate area to lean against. Another issue that might arise is making sure nothing gets in the way of folding the BikeFriday. Again the key issue is having a means to keep a fairly heavily loaded, 40-50 lbs or so, BikeFriday upright. Just for the record I've not had any real issues with keeping an unladen bicycle stable with a kickstand, only a loaded bicycle. Thanks.

HelpSingularity 

Hello Reddleman , Greetings from California,
Whoa, extra cool ride you got there, great picture, love it.
You are just the guy I've been hoping would answer my plea.
My BikeFriday is set up much the same as yours, drop bars, bar end shifters, front and rear racks, mud guards, rim brakes and what looks like the MKS Ezy pedals. That is very impressive that your kickstand is holding the bike up on a lawn. I especially like the fact that it is adjustable, without tools even, fantastic. I'll be ordering one immediately, barring any "supply chain" issues. Thank you again for your help.
Larry

Reddleman

A couple of limitations:

• While I’ve not yet used a kickstand on a folding bike with loads on the front wheel (baskets and bar bags are fixed to the frame), the front wheel flopping around can be an issue when loading up a full-size bike that way on a stand. Consider getting a handlebar limiter spring Dutch-style?
• Loading up is always tricky and don’t expect a stand to hold up your bike while you fix panniers on to the bike.

Tourist in MSN

You asked about the click stand. I have never used one, but I have made a few substitutes for one out of tent pole material. The click stand has a hook on top, the ones I made from tent poles just have a rubber tip on each end, I used trekking pole rubber tips.

For that to work you have to stop your bike from rolling. I use some hair elastic bands as a parking brake on the front wheel to hold the brake lever on my bikes when I use such stands.

This is my Airnimal Joey leaning on my home made stand, it is leaning against the seatpost clamp.



On my Lynskey the photo below shows a close up of my parking brake. I have two elastics on the handlebar.



I made my first stand for my Lynskey, there is a convenient spot where the stays are welded to the seat tube to lean the bike against the stand.



My home made stand, below:



I think a regular sidestand is better than my tent pole stand, but there is no good place to put a stand on my Joey. And I do not want to clamp something on to a titanium tube on my Lynskey, so I do not have a side stand on that either. Thus, I use my tent pole stands with these two bikes.

HelpSingularity 

I use an old leather toe strap as a "parking brake".
I have found it really helps in stabilizing all my bikes when on an incline or on the train, even on my bikes with no kickstand.
I use bar end shifters on most of my bikes so the shift cables allow me to keep the toe strap on the handlebars at all times.
An added benefit is using the toe strap "parking brake" as "grab and dash" prevention when stopped for a quick break.
Those few seconds fumbling with the buckle on a toe strap might be the difference your bike disappearing or you stopping this most foul deed.

mlau

NOt sure if this will help.

On my Xootr swift, I used a Pletscher double kickstand for a while.
It was a bit heavy, but worked really well.
https://www.greggscycles.com/product...kaAh9ZEALw_wcB

Duragrouch

I like the clickstand idea for my racer, if I ever ride it again. Not a bike to put a kickstand on, if only for style.

Any stand on soft ground, key is a wide pad on the base.

I like the elastic parking brake, I've done that during brake adjustment, I should bring with me.

With big aft loading, a stand closer to that loading works better, such as the stands that attach to the left chain and seat stays, just forward of the rear axle, but only if, when folded, it doesn't interfere with a rear pannier.

I like the looks of the Pletscher double stand, expensive, but looks quality and it folds nice. The "fixed" fork stands would have problems with chain interference when folding. My only concern is whether I would need to constantly lift the bike when deploying the Pletscher double.

Gregg's Cycles... that sounded familiar, though I've never been there. I'm guessing you're now local to Seattle, mlau? (your profile says Alameda)

Tourist in MSN

You are describing the Greenfield stand. I use one on three of my bikes that have steel frames. They are rim brake bikes, thus no disc brake mechanism to interfere with. Sometimes I clip my shoe heel on the stand on my rando bike, they are best if your bike has a long chainstay like a touring bike.

If the bike can roll forward or if the front wheel can roll to the right side, the stand can fold up, thus I sometimes need to use the elastic on my brake level to prevent that.

I cropped this from a much bigger photo, this is my rando bike.

Duragrouch

Thanks for the pic. That wouldn't fit the tighter rear triangle on my Dahon 20" folder. I thought I had seen one with just flat clamps instead of around the tubes, but the latter looks kinder to the tubes.

RCMoeur 

I have first-generation NWT with no kickstand plate (uses a wishbone chainstay). It has a Greenfield rear triangle kickstand which works quite well for heavy loads on the rear. Heavy front loads flop around some when parked, but the bike doesn't fall over.

HelpSingularity 

So how does this kickstand work when the bike is folded up? Does it get in the way (much)? I already think that folding a Bike Friday is a little bit of a pain in the rear (but just a little bit); I don't want to make it worse. tia

RCMoeur 

It's never been an issue anytime I've packed it in its suitcase or when I've folded it for placing in a trunk or cargo area.