Originally Posted by sunofsand

"I mean its a known scientific fact that some people are more gifted in areas that others are not."
That tells me nothing about how they became gifted, though.
All that statement says is that some people are better than others at specific things. Obviously.
...
I agree, hard work is all that it takes.

Originally Posted by Stallionforce

I've read through this and don't understand it at all. I have a friend, mind you, who also takes great pleasure in passing people while out training. My question is: unless it's a race, why do you care? How can you take pleasure in passing someone who isn't playing the same psychological game you are? Chances are they aren't in a "race" in their imagination. Chances are they're just out for a spin, or between intervals, or just about to do intervals. Or on their way to getting a cheese log at the grocer.

Totally confused.

I guess it's just an ego thing.

Originally Posted by Stallionforce

I've read through this and don't understand it at all. I have a friend, mind you, who also takes great pleasure in passing people while out training. My question is: unless it's a race, why do you care? How can you take pleasure in passing someone who isn't playing the same psychological game you are? Chances are they aren't in a "race" in their imagination. Chances are they're just out for a spin, or between intervals, or just about to do intervals. Or on their way to getting a cheese log at the grocer.

Totally confused.

I guess it's just an ego thing.

Originally Posted by Stallionforce

Chances are they're just out for a spin, or between intervals, or just about to do intervals. Or on their way to getting a cheese log at the grocer.

Originally Posted by john bono

I do get it. For people who can complete a century in under six hours, are 150 lbs or less, and can average 18mph or faster through most terrain, passing someone isn't a big deal. They do it all the time. For those of us, though, who are a wee bit heavier than that, who strain up most hills even with a triple, who might break 20 mph on level ground with a tailwind, yet still retain just a bit of competitiveness, you're g-d--n right we enjoy it when we pass someone.

I spent a day riding an organized century, and was passed by everyone who rode that trip, except for seven people--and those seven people left before I did. So, when I pass someone, anyone, without a doubt, I take it as a victory. Those times when I am able to pass anyone are so few, so rare, that I do crow about it a little bit, even if it is just to myself. I still remember with fondness the day when, at 350 lbs, riding a clapped out circa 1978 Raleigh 10-speed, I passed a thin guy on a brand new Cannondale. Maybe he wasn't riding full speed. I was, however. Watching the surprise on his face as he was passed by a ****** calling "on your left" made my year.

As of right now, I've spent two years just to reach the point where I'm the slowest guy on an organized century. Why should I, when I get that rare chance to pass someone, hang my head in shame that it wasn't real, he was riding farther than I was, etc? If I'm hammering my lungs out to do it, that's all that counts as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by UmneyDurak

Well if you enjoy winning one person races, then good for you. Personally I find it entertaining when some one passes me working hard while I'm just out for an easy spin.
Anyway for me if it's not a race it doesn't really matter if I passed someone or not.

Originally Posted by cooker

It's definitely not just "hard work". To reach the world class level in any endeavour you have to be born gifted and work hard. There are genetic variations in many factors that affect your performance in different sports, like body size, oxygen carrying capacity, eyesight, and so on. There are probably some differences in reflex speed, coordination, spatial perception, and many other attributes that are partially genetically determined, although with early exposure, your developing brain can adapt to different challenges and compensate to some degree for genetic factors. With training, practise and determination you make the best of what you were born with, and hopefully with experience, mentoring and coaching you are guided to the sports or positions you're best suited for. A large person may do better as a defensive tackle. A smaller person might excel in gymnastics. Someone with nimble feet might be a tennis player...a klutzy person might choose weightlifting. Etc.

Originally Posted by sunofsand

Tell me what gifted is. Not just how it shows itself but what IT actually is. Show me someone gifted for something. .

Originally Posted by jock

Nice one exi!

The thrill for me is not in the passing but in the catching, especially from 1 or 2 km back and into a headwind. Once I've caught them I prefer to have a chat (and a breather!)

Originally Posted by chromedome

First of all, to lump Cat 1-2-3 riders all together might be a stretch. And to assume that a 19 year old can easily become a cat 2 rider is also a stretch. The difference between Cat 3s and Cat 2s is racing savvy and experience, not necessarily fitness and strength. There's a lot of 40, 50, maybe even 60 year olds that could clean the clocks of 19 year olds.

Secondly, some of those people that you are passing are not really on the bottom rung of the bike ladder, but are quite at the top. Do you know why? Because they are using their bike exactly for the reason they got it. To have fun. Their definition of fun is not to go as fast as they can or to pass somebody else to reaffirm their status, but to enjoy their time riding, get a change of scenery, fresh air, bond with a friend, whatever. They're not out on their bike to participate in some phony competition with a stranger, a competition they weren't informed of previously. If they are just riding along having a nice summer evening on a bike ride, not being Type A for a short while during their week, then I would consider them to be at the top rung of your ladder.

Also, I think maybe you underestimated our collective intelligence, and insinuating an insult in post #16 doesn't win you any believers.

I would like to suggest that you don't go into sports therapy if you get off on passing little girls riding pink and purple bikes with sparkly streamers and a helmut on backwards. If you want to legitimately stroke your ego, find something of quality and substance, something that brings a true sense of pride, and work for it. Then keep it to yourself; somehow it's more valuable.

Originally Posted by Stallionforce

I've read through this and don't understand it at all. I have a friend, mind you, who also takes great pleasure in passing people while out training. My question is: unless it's a race, why do you care? How can you take pleasure in passing someone who isn't playing the same psychological game you are? Chances are they aren't in a "race" in their imagination. Chances are they're just out for a spin, or between intervals, or just about to do intervals. Or on their way to getting a cheese log at the grocer.

Totally confused.

I guess it's just an ego thing.

Originally Posted by john bono

I do get it. For people who can complete a century in under six hours, are 150 lbs or less, and can average 18mph or faster through most terrain, passing someone isn't a big deal. They do it all the time. For those of us, though, who are a wee bit heavier than that, who strain up most hills even with a triple, who might break 20 mph on level ground with a tailwind, yet still retain just a bit of competitiveness, you're g-d--n right we enjoy it when we pass someone.

I spent a day riding an organized century, and was passed by everyone who rode that trip, except for seven people--and those seven people left before I did. So, when I pass someone, anyone, without a doubt, I take it as a victory. Those times when I am able to pass anyone are so few, so rare, that I do crow about it a little bit, even if it is just to myself. I still remember with fondness the day when, at 350 lbs, riding a clapped out circa 1978 Raleigh 10-speed, I passed a thin guy on a brand new Cannondale. Maybe he wasn't riding full speed. I was, however. Watching the surprise on his face as he was passed by a ****** calling "on your left" made my year.

As of right now, I've spent two years just to reach the point where I'm the slowest guy on an organized century. Why should I, when I get that rare chance to pass someone, hang my head in shame that it wasn't real, he was riding farther than I was, etc? If I'm hammering my lungs out to do it, that's all that counts as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by john bono

You enjoy the fact that you are in good enough shape that riders who aren't in as good a shape as you have to work real hard just to keep up with your easy pace. That's fine--if I were in your shoes, I might find it entertaining too. But don't think you are not being competitive in the process. You've reached a fitness level where your nice pleasant ride is my full blown hammerfest--and you know that, and you enjoy that fact. Everyone is competitive at the strangest times, yourself included. The thing is, you are saying to yourself, "This guy's killing himself, and I'm barely breaking a sweat. Damn, I'm good," instead of, "I <puff> can <puff> catch <puff>him! I <puff> can <puff> catch<puff>him! I <puff> PASSED <puff> him!"

Maybe you folks cycling on Mt. Olympus can't understand this. I understand it though. It's the Slow Cyclist That Could.

Originally Posted by Blackberry

Here's my own strange story. When I was young I wanted to be a professional writer more than anything in the world. I worked very hard to make that dream come true, and it did. But it took a tremendous amount of time, education and work. To illustrate my magazine articles I bought a camera. To my surprise, and with very limited training, I began to sell photos. One of my very first images has won several contests and has been published many, many times. Over time, I've supplemented my income through wedding and portrait photography and my photos have appeared in books, magazines and newspapers. Have I worked at it? Yes. but I feel that whatever I've achieved is mostly the result of a gift that was just handed to me. I worked a hell of a lot harder at writing. And I don't want to even tell you how much I struggled just to get bad on the banjo.

My bet is that others have similar stories.

Originally Posted by markwebb

So with average general core conditioning and no physiological defects or concerns, with a young heart/lungs/muscles/skeletal system - it does not really take a HUGE effort to achieve good cycling conditioning. Let's face it - a 19 year old guy that's played other sports that is fit and has a high muscle mass to weight ratio can become a CAT 2 or 3 rider rather quickly.

Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway

So somebody finally realizes cyclists are crappy athletes. I've been saying all along the top notch people are doing other sports and even someone mediocre can easily dominate cycling in a relative sense.

A good example is how you guys think 35 mph top speed on flat ground is fast. That's a joke and any chump in another sport could do that easy.

Originally Posted by markwebb

Yes....my theory is proving itself out in these posts. You have riders like UmneyDurak that - based on their attitude that such visions of "passing" are beyond them; that's the close first cousin attitude I mentioned earlier - that's the exact anti-passing it's beneath me I'm better than that attitude that is UmneyDurak's self-affirmation of his status on the ladder. Johm Bono GETS IT, too !!!!!

Originally Posted by john bono

Sadly, though, the one thing that comes through on this forum is how class-conscious the riders here are. Horror of horrors that there might be someone who puts blows their lungs out just trying to be an "average" rider. Us slowpokes should just accept our status and live with our inherent inferiority. We should all just buy comfort bikes(or better yet, just abandon the road to our betters).

I dealt with some of that same attitude when I first went to the gym, 2 1/2 years ago. Walking into a gym at 450 lbs, watching the gym rats looking at me and them wondering why I was there, why I was lifting, when it was obvious that I wouldn't be around for very long. They don't say that now. I lift more than 75% of those same people. I didn't accept that attitude then, and I don't now. You don't like me pedaling like mad to catch you? The huffing and puffing is too disconcerting to your tender eardrums? Too bad. Kiss my @ss.

Again, this thread has proven why I continue to cycle alone. You could cut the snootiness here with a knife.

Originally Posted by chromedome

But it sounds like john bono and the OP are the ones with the snootiest attitudes. john bono has gone to the gym for 2 1/2 years and is now 75% stronger than everybody else? I'll tell you what: you just rode past all those people at the gym and yelled "ON YOUR LEFT!" in all their ears. You've just called all those people average and declared yourself better than them. Horror of horrors that they may not have as much time as you to go to the gym, or they have old injuries, or maybe they just like going to the gym to socialize and get a little exercise along with it. But now that you've turned yourself into King Rat at the gym, they each should accept their status and their inferiority to you, and the weak and skinny should vacate the gym so you can be there by yourself. They can all just buy couches or barcaloungers and stay home.

Originally Posted by markwebb

Yup...I know whacha mean. When I was pedaling the other night and coming up with my Ladder Theory, I also had to remind myself that my goals this year were to 1) use cycling as a tool to control my weight, and 2) to have more fun cycling this year.

I think that a lot of what I read on BF is exaggerated - I don't think that most of the folks posting here are really that good. When I ride with my sister the 80 pound marathon runner, she easily beats me up hills and is just a faster cyclist with better LT threshold and a more conditioned heart/lungs with better muscle/weight ratio and also very light weight going up hills. But when we do large group national weekend rides and get-togethers I am faster up 90% of the hills than the other 2,000 cyclists on those rides - either that other 10% are the vast majority of those who post on BF or everyone on BF tends to exaggerate their capabilities.