What are your thoughts on Lance Armstrong doing a cycling podcast??
#76
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,794
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
204 Posts
Thanks for allowing me to voice my opinion. I don't necessarily care to further this debate; I just would like others to acknowledge that doping will always take place... the only difference between peoples' view of right and wrong is WHERE WE CHOOSE TO DRAW THE LINE. I say leave that to the athlete... to their glory and/or peril.
Peace,
BB
Peace,
BB
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,794
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
204 Posts
And, to go one step further, imagine how many of those not very wise high school aged kids (plus a lot of adults that really should know better) would behave if drugs were legalized. There would be a lot of, "well, maybe if I just triple the recommended dosage (assuming they even know what the recommended dosage is), I'll be able to dominate" and a lot of people suffering serious health related consequences. If drugs were legalized in sport, a lot of people with more competitive drive than wisdom would end up dead.
#78
Professional amateur
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Ga.
Posts: 665
Bikes: Does a Big Wheel count ?
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times
in
89 Posts
... As for the argument that legalizing PEDs will 'force others' to take them to compete, I agree it presents athletes with a new choice and perhaps a new risk. Competing doesn't always have to mean winning and competitors make choices as to how far they're willing to go... .
"How far someone is willing to go" can and should include things like rigid dedication to proper diet, rest, training, etc., no argument there, but once it gets into artificial chemical enhancements, that come with well-established negative long term health effects, then the line blurs significantly.
We could apply the above reasoning and turn it into a hypothetical, and ask what if a long distance runner was able to have his legs amputated and replaced with Steve Austin's bionic legs, and he could then run at 60 mph ? His competition would be forced to follow suit, or they'd be better off just staying home. They be forced to significantly and irreversibly alter their bodies, to maintain the even playing field, to have any chance of remaining in their sport.
I think this exaggerated analogy holds true here. So where do we draw the line?
#79
Sophomore Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 1,057 Times
in
631 Posts
Geez, you had to go and pull the "60 mph Bionic Legs" card, didn't you? Can we leave Lee Majors out of this discussion, please? Poor guy hasn't had a decent series in decades.
My idea to solve the whole "doping in cycling" problem is to return to the old days. BIDT, every few years, a talented affable young rider would show promise. The organizers of the race liked the cut of his jib, he had a good attitude, loved the sport and raced hard, knew who buttered his bread, and most importantly kept his mouth shut and didn't rat on his friends. Such a rider could make a lot of money for the sport and generate lots of publicity. Especially if he started winning lots of races.
So race organizers (I suspect) sort of winked and turned a blind eye to doping allegations made against their Golden Boy, concealed positive test results, etc., all for the good of the sport. The sport and the young star had a symbiotic relationship, one that made a lot of people a lot of money. Why upset the apple cart? Besides, bike racing is just entertainment, not much different than WWF Wrestling. Bring on the soap opera aspect, the ridiculous tabloid stories behind the race, one rider's mother dies and he wins a stage in her honor, rider "A" hates rider "B" and talks trash about him, rumors swirl around about riders cheating with electric motors, and in the words of Phil Ligget "riders make reputations, and riders lose reputations". This soap opera aspect is the real point of the race (and making $$$) not necessarily who wins or whether they won fairly or not. Who really cares anyway, this is not life and death matters we are dealing with here.
I say, let the race organizers run THEIR race the was they want, and the pearl-clutching anti-doping zealots can tune in to clean sports like horse racing or body building.
My idea to solve the whole "doping in cycling" problem is to return to the old days. BIDT, every few years, a talented affable young rider would show promise. The organizers of the race liked the cut of his jib, he had a good attitude, loved the sport and raced hard, knew who buttered his bread, and most importantly kept his mouth shut and didn't rat on his friends. Such a rider could make a lot of money for the sport and generate lots of publicity. Especially if he started winning lots of races.
So race organizers (I suspect) sort of winked and turned a blind eye to doping allegations made against their Golden Boy, concealed positive test results, etc., all for the good of the sport. The sport and the young star had a symbiotic relationship, one that made a lot of people a lot of money. Why upset the apple cart? Besides, bike racing is just entertainment, not much different than WWF Wrestling. Bring on the soap opera aspect, the ridiculous tabloid stories behind the race, one rider's mother dies and he wins a stage in her honor, rider "A" hates rider "B" and talks trash about him, rumors swirl around about riders cheating with electric motors, and in the words of Phil Ligget "riders make reputations, and riders lose reputations". This soap opera aspect is the real point of the race (and making $$$) not necessarily who wins or whether they won fairly or not. Who really cares anyway, this is not life and death matters we are dealing with here.
I say, let the race organizers run THEIR race the was they want, and the pearl-clutching anti-doping zealots can tune in to clean sports like horse racing or body building.
Likes For Lemond1985:
#80
I got a fever.
And, to go one step further, imagine how many of those not very wise high school aged kids (plus a lot of adults that really should know better) would behave if drugs were legalized. There would be a lot of, "well, maybe if I just triple the recommended dosage (assuming they even know what the recommended dosage is), I'll be able to dominate" and a lot of people suffering serious health related consequences. If drugs were legalized in sport, a lot of people with more competitive drive than wisdom would end up dead.
There is a reason this stuff is banned beyond the artificial enhancements they provide.
#81
Full Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 218
Bikes: Felt ZR3, Specialized Sectur
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 52 Times
in
37 Posts
And if you don't push the dosage to point of killing yourself. You can still end up ruining your bodies natural processes. Abuse thyroid meds or testosterone to the point that you stop producing it naturally and have to take the stuff the rest of your rest just to function as normal.
There is a reason this stuff is banned beyond the artificial enhancements they provide.
There is a reason this stuff is banned beyond the artificial enhancements they provide.
So true. My urologist has some stern warnings for me. I have low T. He said he can jack me up just like those advertisements on radio claim. He said there is an industry that is pushing these T levels of 800 plus. Note, according to him, low T is definable of a T level under 300 but he is more akin to say under 200.
Yep, he can get me there but there are major tradeoffs. As you said, once the injections start, I'm on it for life. Secondly, you body naturally ages and according to him, you brain says you need "x" amount of T. Once you go over that, the body's natural producer's start to shut down because the brain says you have enough. So, those organs that are producing the testosterone shutdown. Using my doctor's exact words, "your nuts will shrivel up like raisins one you push past your body's normal state."
Me attempting to be a wise old man said, "I think I will just let nature take its course." I did use the armpit roll on for about a year but the hoops you had to go through to get it cleared by my Insurance and then the fact that I really didn't see any performance changes along with my Doctors warnings (this was for the shots) made me say, forget it. Not worth the hassle.
I suppose if I was 35 and had low T, I might opt for a solution but being 63, it was a what the hell am I doing this for moment. 1-2mph on the bike is not worth the side effects.
john
Likes For rutan74:
#82
Member
Just came across his podcast a week or so ago and I'm really enjoying it. I like the recaps that include JB, Lance, and George ... but I also like hearing the preview shows with Johan & JB. Johan's knowledge is incredible to me.
Likes For OhioJTrek:
#83
Senior Member
Good stuff.
Likes For pvillemasher:
#84
Member
Agreed. It was great to hear from somebody that had actually been racing in THIS YEAR'S tour...Though it was a shame the way it ended for him.
Likes For OhioJTrek:
#85
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,275
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
353 Posts
Dont hate on Lance, he is a product of our money driven , win at all costs, big business sponsored athletes. He had no choice , doping had been going on for a long time and in order to win you have to be willing to do that. He may be a bit narcissist. I watched an interview that Charlie Rose did . He seemed so in fantasy world . This was when he was at the height of his career. So something about him just seemed off in that interview . Just to fairy tale like and that touch of narcissism.. . It is also further estimated that a huge % of pro athletes are on performancing drugs. Just look at basketball players build compared to the 60s and 70s
..
..
What you miss is that Armstrong made the choice to lie and destroy many people.
That said, while I think Armstrong’s behavior was dispicable, I think he is finally in his late 40’s maturing into a half decent person.
#86
Member
A frequently repeated lie: "They were all doing it". Listen to David Walsh, the guy Cheater repeatedly tried to vilify, and sued his employer for telling the truth. David's statement on the worst legacy of the whole era, is that Cheater apologists will casually sweep the whole thing away as "they were all doing it". It's simply not true.
Likes For sofaman:
#87
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,926
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3743 Post(s)
Liked 1,018 Times
in
768 Posts
A frequently repeated lie: "They were all doing it". Listen to David Walsh, the guy Cheater repeatedly tried to vilify, and sued his employer for telling the truth. David's statement on the worst legacy of the whole era, is that Cheater apologists will casually sweep the whole thing away as "they were all doing it". It's simply not true.
The TdF never appointed a winner to the Tour during the Lance years....
#88
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
A frequently repeated lie: "They were all doing it". Listen to David Walsh, the guy Cheater repeatedly tried to vilify, and sued his employer for telling the truth. David's statement on the worst legacy of the whole era, is that Cheater apologists will casually sweep the whole thing away as "they were all doing it". It's simply not true.
Professional cycling's 35 fastest times up Alpe d'Huez - Sticky Bottle
The link is maybe somewhat biased, but gives the fastest times up Alpe d'Huez (during the Tour only).
You have to go to 14th place to find a time set outside of the doping years.
Do you think Pantani went up in 37:35 clean (with a 8.1 kg bike to boot??).
How bout Ulrich?
It was prevelant.
Is he a saint? God no, but do all his accomplishments need to be erased from history? Doesn't seem right to me. Acknowledge it was a bad time for the sport, fix it and move on. Don't vilify the men who were there, and if you choose to rake Lance over the coals, don't forget about all the others. Are they some how less guilty?
Last edited by Sillyak; 07-27-19 at 11:17 PM.
Likes For Sillyak:
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Downey, Ca
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
I liked the podcast by Lance. I saw him beat everyone else for 7 years. Still watching every year since 1999 because of Lance. Some good, some bad, that's life. They should put him back on the list but it may be a Pete Rose type of thing. Time will tell.
#90
Member
If not for Lance, I don't think I ever own a bike as an adult .. let alone watch the TDF.
#93
Prefers Cicero
#94
bored of "Senior Member"
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MD / metro DC
Posts: 2,871
Bikes: Cross-Check/Nexus commuter. Several others for various forms of play.
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 639 Post(s)
Liked 576 Times
in
445 Posts
I wonder if the thread title had been "What are your thoughts about Lance Armstrong doing drugs?" would we have wound up talking about his podcast?
#95
Prefers Cicero
The implied longer thread title is: What are your thoughts on Lance Armstrong doing a cycling podcast...given that he is a liar, cheater, bully, and generally horrible person??
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Had the same thought,but this is where any Lance thread always leads. To get back on topic, his podcast doesn't bother me as I can choose not to click on it. His NBCsn segments took up some valuable sunflower field/chateau time IMO.....
#97
bored of "Senior Member"
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: MD / metro DC
Posts: 2,871
Bikes: Cross-Check/Nexus commuter. Several others for various forms of play.
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 639 Post(s)
Liked 576 Times
in
445 Posts
What a long strange trip it's been. From hero to sub-zero.
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,287
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1619 Post(s)
Liked 3,087 Times
in
1,670 Posts
yes granted yet he did all the climbs and routes both in training and race time (and many multiple times). guessing he has a little insight as to what to expect along the course or not at professional speeds.
Likes For diphthong:
#99
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: plainfield, Illinois
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Eddy Merckx
Eddy Merckx tested positive for a banned substance in the Giro di Lombardia classic.
Does he get a pass on doping but not Lance Armstrong?
I'm not a Lance fan. but those days sure were exciting cycling.
For the record, I did not like seeing him on NBC-sports.
Does he get a pass on doping but not Lance Armstrong?
I'm not a Lance fan. but those days sure were exciting cycling.
For the record, I did not like seeing him on NBC-sports.
Last edited by xtrout1; 08-05-19 at 09:51 AM. Reason: added content
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Gordy748
Professional Cycling For the Fans
12
11-30-12 08:51 PM
Juan Foote
Professional Cycling For the Fans
14
07-11-12 08:00 AM