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What are you drinking?

Old 05-22-19, 07:01 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Well powdered gatorade has both salt and potassium. They have an endurance formula that has significantly more of both, and is still pretty cheap.

I'll claim ignorance on magnesium. I'm not sure what, if any, short term detrimental effects there might be from low magnesium in the system, and how quickly you use it. I am fairly certain that it's level of importance is below that of both sodium and potassium. Sodium is the biggie.
I think magnesium deficiency over time leads to low testosterone? Which isn't something you need to help along as you age.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
My semi-informed take is that you don't need to put the Mg or the K in a drink, since there are body stores of those elements, which can be repleted by diet except in rare cases of Mg deficiency. Na, by contrast, is not really stored and needs to be replaced in real time during prolonged exercise.

I think you're right that subtle Mg deficiency may be common in industrialized societies, but it's easy to eat foods that contain it. I practically live on legumes, nuts, dark chocolate and leafy greens.
Thanks for clarifying this.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:06 PM
  #78  
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I have finally powdered pink Himalayan salt for cooking. I don't believe in all the hokey stuff about it, just prefer the flavor. And it's broken up much smaller than table salt, which makes it disappear.

So I can add a little of this to water, mix in what I need for flavor, and stop paying $6.50 for a tube of Brawndo? Given a decent and rounded diet?

I don't get cramps or charlie horses. I just get a never ending thirst, and crave a lot of salt in my food. Only when I'm out sweating a lot.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I have finally powdered pink Himalayan salt for cooking. I don't believe in all the hokey stuff about it, just prefer the flavor. And it's broken up much smaller than table salt, which makes it disappear.
Wife just put a grinder full of little pink crystals on the table a few weeks ago. She said she wanted to use it because it didn't contain the micro-plastic that's present in sea salt. Tastes salty, which is good enough for me.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
So how do I make something at home that replaces not just table salt but also magnesium and potassium in something close to the ratio your losing them, and tastes acceptable? I guess it's easy enough to get potassium, but most people don't get enough magnesium right?

I like money. A penny saved is a penny earned.
Not sure on the magnesium, nor it's importance if you already have both potassium and sodium.
The obvious source of potassium is "salt substitute", eg.

https://www.target.com/p/morton-salt...z/-/A-13170850
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Old 05-22-19, 07:35 PM
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Mostly just water. If it is summer or I'm doing a long ride I'll put what ever powdered isotonic drink is available at the supermarket. I'll occassionaly make my own concoction of molasses, salt and brown sugar. I need to experiment more to get the ratios right: sometimes it is too sweet, sometimes too salty.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:47 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I have finally powdered pink Himalayan salt for cooking. I don't believe in all the hokey stuff about it, just prefer the flavor. And it's broken up much smaller than table salt, which makes it disappear.

So I can add a little of this to water, mix in what I need for flavor, and stop paying $6.50 for a tube of Brawndo? Given a decent and rounded diet?

I don't get cramps or charlie horses. I just get a never ending thirst, and crave a lot of salt in my food. Only when I'm out sweating a lot.

Yup that was my thinking last year when i started the homemade stuff. What you NEED if you're sweating a ton is water, and a bit of salt to get you through the day without issues. Everything else is marginal gains as far as I can tell. As noted...fake salt is an easy, nearly free source of potassium.

Once you've got water, salt, and maybe potassium, add as many calories through sugar or maltodextrin as you want. Sugar makes it sweet...maltodextrin doesnt, but still has the calories.

I started with salty limeade, which was delicious. Fresh squeezed lime, simple syrup, some salt. Was like drinking margaritas on the bike

Last edited by Abe_Froman; 05-22-19 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 05-22-19, 07:52 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Not sure on the magnesium, nor it's importance if you already have both potassium and sodium.
The obvious source of potassium is "salt substitute", eg.

https://www.target.com/p/morton-salt...z/-/A-13170850
Na+, K+, and Mg+ are cations that are lost in sweat. There is also a ton of Cl-, but anions are less important for cellular function and just slosh around passively.

I think Gatorade, which was the first commercial electrolyte replacement drink, included K on the theory that the K/Na ratio in sweat is higher than in the plasma, where it comes from, and, therefore, K losses could be significant and should be replaced. I think it's been accepted since then that intracellular K stores are so robust and plasma K so tightly regulated by the kidney that there really is no such risk. A low K can cause potentially fatal heart arrhythmias before you even feel funny, so there's no knowable link to athletic performance, except that ventricular tachycardia is slow.

I don't know much about Mg either, but its metabolism is complicated (i.e., I am too lazy to look it up) and there are huge stores in bone, for what its worth, which may be nothing. However, I just read a review stating that Mg losses in sweat and urine are increased by heavy exercise and that Mg deficiency may be common in athletes, especially skinny ones.

I do, however, think it's in the drinks and powders, essentially because it's easier to sell something with more ingredients. Some of us may need Mg supplementation for dietary or genetic reasons, but not in real time on the bike. As we know it's easy to get performance-oriented perfectionists spun up about all kinds of non-issues and no one is going to spend money preferentially on sweetened salt water when they can have "the works."

Last edited by MoAlpha; 05-22-19 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 05-23-19, 02:26 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Mostly just water. If it is summer or I'm doing a long ride I'll put what ever powdered isotonic drink is available at the supermarket. I'll occassionaly make my own concoction of molasses, salt and brown sugar. I need to experiment more to get the ratios right: sometimes it is too sweet, sometimes too salty.
That, or just buy the Gatorade where all the work and experimentation has already been done. Sure the ingredient are pretty basic, but as you say finding the optimal balance is an entirely different matter.
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Old 05-23-19, 02:58 AM
  #85  
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Old 05-23-19, 03:31 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
That, or just buy the Gatorade where all the work and experimentation has already been done. Sure the ingredient are pretty basic, but as you say finding the optimal balance is an entirely different matter.
I do buy the ready made sports drink powders if I'm feeling wealthy. Otherwise I use whatever is in the pantry. It's not that important at the end of the day: as long as there is salt in the water is all that really matters. I prefer to get my carbs from food rather than drink.
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Old 05-23-19, 04:15 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I do buy the ready made sports drink powders if I'm feeling wealthy. Otherwise I use whatever is in the pantry. It's not that important at the end of the day: as long as there is salt in the water is all that really matters. I prefer to get my carbs from food rather than drink.
Perhaps not, if you're a recreational cyclist or weekend warrior. However, for the pros athlete its of vital importance. All that experimentation and testing was designed to maximize performance and give their athlete that competitive edge.

As you know, modern competitions are won or lost in the fractions of a second. With that in mind, I'd consider any advantage extremely important. Wouldn't your?

Besides, if you buy it in bulk (tall canister), its comes out to just cents per serving. Pretty sweet deal in an easy serve package.
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Old 05-23-19, 10:54 AM
  #88  
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@KraneXL I'm curious if reading this entire thread will change you opinion on the matter.
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Old 05-23-19, 11:22 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Perhaps not, if you're a recreational cyclist or weekend warrior. However, for the pros athlete its of vital importance. All that experimentation and testing was designed to maximize performance and give their athlete that competitive edge.

As you know, modern competitions are won or lost in the fractions of a second. With that in mind, I'd consider any advantage extremely important. Wouldn't your?

Besides, if you buy it in bulk (tall canister), its comes out to just cents per serving. Pretty sweet deal in an easy serve package.
If there is a measurable performance gain from fancy, expensive branded sports drinks, and thats a big IF, we're still back to the fallacy of "if the pros do it, it's a good idea for us."

The pros have ceramic bearings, glue tubulars, and generally dont bother riding a bike that isnt brand new and costs less than $5000. Should we be doing those things, and give away our bikes at the end of each season so we're not riding old tech? Shouldbwe all be hiring full time mechanics, and chase vans full of wheels for our masters cat 4 races?

What the pros do is irrelevant. What matters is whether a given thing meets the nebulous and individual decision of whether a gain is worth the cost and effort to justify bothering with.
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Old 05-23-19, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
@KraneXL I'm curious if reading this entire thread will change you opinion on the matter.
Change my option? There are no sides here.
Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
If there is a measurable performance gain from fancy, expensive branded sports drinks, and thats a big IF, we're still back to the fallacy of "if the pros do it, it's a good idea for us."

The pros have ceramic bearings, glue tubulars, and generally dont bother riding a bike that isnt brand new and costs less than $5000. Should we be doing those things, and give away our bikes at the end of each season so we're not riding old tech? Shouldbwe all be hiring full time mechanics, and chase vans full of wheels for our masters cat 4 races?

What the pros do is irrelevant. What matters is whether a given thing meets the nebulous and individual decision of whether a gain is worth the cost and effort to justify bothering with.




Not irrelevant Abe. They sets the standard to which everything else is judged. As to the rest, I'm pretty sure I said that.
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Old 05-23-19, 12:17 PM
  #91  
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I'm sticking with my Perpetuem for those times that it's warranted and/or handy to have. Works for me, and I don't have a "marketers are trying to brainwash us all" mindset. I am also not a skinflint.
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Old 05-23-19, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Perhaps not, if you're a recreational cyclist or weekend warrior. However, for the pros athlete its of vital importance. All that experimentation and testing was designed to maximize performance and give their athlete that competitive edge.

As you know, modern competitions are won or lost in the fractions of a second. With that in mind, I'd consider any advantage extremely important. Wouldn't your?

Besides, if you buy it in bulk (tall canister), its comes out to just cents per serving. Pretty sweet deal in an easy serve package.
I don't race. Even when I did, it still doesn't matter: I was too slow to be at the pointy end. The few races I have done were too short to need to drink during the race. I'd have a drink before I started and would be hydrated enough until the end of the race.
Here the sports drinks aren't that cheap. It's more like a dollar per serve.
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Old 05-23-19, 02:03 PM
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I typically use Gatorade and water. Generally one bottle of each. If I only figure I'll need one bottle, then for rides that aren't intense, I'll use only water. Rides that are shorter (like say 60 km) but fast, I'll use the Gatorade. For longer rides, particularly on hot days, where I expect to have to refill, I'll start with 2 bottles of Gatorade and one water on the assumption that any refills will likely be water.
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Old 05-23-19, 06:58 PM
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Me...Vitalite.
If a longer ride - water. Then something solid to eat.

Water is so versatile. You can drink it, use it to dilute food or spray it over your body.

For my kid's racing very complex. It is more about timing than what. But a bottle of water always. Then some energy drink concentration based on weather and event.
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Old 05-23-19, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I don't race. Even when I did, it still doesn't matter: I was too slow to be at the pointy end. The few races I have done were too short to need to drink during the race. I'd have a drink before I started and would be hydrated enough until the end of the race.<br /><font size="+2"><span style="color:brown;">Here the sports drinks aren't that cheap. It's more like a dollar per serve.</span></font>
<br /><br />Roughly 70-80 cents if you order in powdered form. I've gotten the bottles for under 60 cents on sale at my local supermarket.
Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Me...Vitalite.<br />If a longer ride - water. Then something solid to eat.<br /><br />Water is so versatile. You can drink it, use it to dilute food or spray it over your body.<br /><br />For my kid's racing very complex. It is more about timing than what. But a bottle of water always. Then some energy drink concentration based on weather and event.
<br /><br /><br />Water's number one, but it has its limitations. Another advantage of the powdered sport drink is the convenience to choose it when needed.
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Old 05-23-19, 07:41 PM
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just water.
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Old 05-23-19, 07:58 PM
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Nothing beats the power of water, in my opinion.
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Old 05-23-19, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
<br /><br />Roughly 70-80 cents if you order in powdered form. I've gotten the bottles for under 60 cents on sale at my local supermarket. <br /><br /><br />Water's number one, but it has its limitations. Another advantage of the powdered sport drink is the convenience to choose it when needed.
There are 3.5 things you are trying to do and it depends on how far and how hard you are riding to determine what it best.

-Fuel - can be in the drink, or solid. Longer the ride, more towards solid.
-Electrolite - this can be solid, in Gu, washed with water, or in the drink
-Hydration

1/2 cooling. Kind of goes with Hydration, but evaporation is one of the best ways to cool.
The wrong mix in the bottle is too strong, or too weak and sometimes - just right, but rarely.
As such with limited space, and unknown temperatures nothing comes close to water. Water and some tablet or GU and some food and you got everything.
For a <1 hour race/crit - bottle with mix is fine.
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Old 05-23-19, 11:44 PM
  #99  
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Vega Sport Electrolyte Hydrator. Lemon lime flavor used at about half strength. No calories, just electrolytes. I always carry 2 bottles. Sometimes just water in one bottle. Also always carry — but seldom need — a gel pack with carbs and caffeine and a protein bar. Works very well for me.
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Old 05-24-19, 07:23 AM
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Maurten. Most of the top distance people are using this. Drink...gel...no upset stomach. You can google it or go to The Feed for information.

I tried it on a lark...wow.

Maurten.
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