Caliper

I'm looking to get an indoor trainer this winter to keep up fitness when it's frigid, dark and slushy outside. I'm right now torn between getting a fluid resistance trainer that will give me power data vs a "smart" trainer. Thing is, I'm not interested in video games so have no intention of joining Zwift. I'd rather listen to music, a podcast or a documentary during the workout than watch a virtual landscape. So, without Zwift, is there a compelling reason to get a trainer that controls the resistance? I think I can follow a targeted power range or HR range with the fluid trainer even if all it is simulating is an endless flat road, and the fact that the fluid trainer doesn't need an external power source is also appealing. But, part of me wonders if I'm just missing something because I haven't used a trainer before and maybe it would be better to just pony up the extra bucks from the beginning? Any thoughts or experiences to help?

redlude97

There are more programs than just zwift to do structured training, such as the popular trainerroad. With that you can do whatever you'd like during the intervals or sessions. Even with Zwift you don't have to focus on the racing, you can simply use its database of workouts. Other resources such as ergdb could also useful. The benefit is that you can expend less mental energy during training, you just have to pedal.

Cyclist0108

I have a dumb trainer and have trialed Zwift, but have only paid for it a month or two at a time. Like you, I have no interest in video games. Zwift is a bit different. I'm very tempted to buy a smart trainer to take advantage of it. (My main reasons for hesitation are cheapness and I live where I can ride outside at least some of the time all year round.)

But if you can arrange a demo of a smart trainer in combination with Zwift, you might change your mind. If you do get a smart trainer, at least do the free trial of Zwift and Trainerroad and whatever else is currently available.

Caliper

I guess I should add that I am looking to follow a training/workout routine from Velopro. The machines I'm looking at are the Kinetic brand and their app lets me program a workout with power ranges to follow so it seems all I would have to do is keep my power in the target range even with the standard trainer?

redlude97

Its not as easy as you think to keep power in a target range all the time, especially day after day especially in the winter. If you don't think it will be an issue then go ahead with the dumb trainer. I have a KK road machine and a smart trainer and never use the KK anymore...well i hardly used the smart trainer last winter either but plan to this winter. Its nice to be able to zone out at sweetspot watching netflix for 20-30mins at a time

Caliper

Ok, fair point. So, how would the smart trainer feel different from the fluid resistance trainer if I'm targeting 250W and start slacking off (or going too hard)?

redlude97

If you "slack off" by dropping cadence it increases resistance so each pedal stroke becomes harder to hold power relatively constant, same for if you spin up to try to go harder. On a fluid trainer any change in cadence results in a change in power

ksryder

Depends. If you have the smart trainer in ERG mode (which just means it sets the resistance at a certain level and maintains it regardless of cadence and gear combo) then you can't slack-- it simply stops. But if you don't have ERG mode on and it's just reporting power, it will act similarly to the fluid trainer.

tyrion

Without Zwift, you won't know where you are.

redlude97

Erg mode does not hold resistance constant

ksryder

Ok.

Caliper

Ok, that makes sense. The fluid trainer behaves like a bike on a level road while the ERG mode is almost giving the opposite feedback but works to keep you at power.

The only thing I'm seeing is that this requires an app interface to control and almost none of these apps seem to offer a free version with support for the road simulation aspect? Is everyone with smart trainers then having to run some sort of paid subscription so they can use their trainer?

SkepticalOne

Tranerroad is exceptional. I've tried Zwift but found the simulation aspect to be necessary. I much rather enjoy watching movies or just listening to podcasts while attacking goal-specific workouts on TR in erg mode on my Kickr.

Sy Reene

Yeah, not sure there's much out there that's free forever. Elite offers the My E-training app, free for the first year I think. No idea what it costs after the 12 month period as I haven't really used it.

tomato coupe

I own a smart trainer (Wahoo Kickr), and I have only been on Zwift once. I found Zwift incredibly boring. I do exactly what you describe -- I listen to music and podcasts, and watch movies, TV, and documentaries. I think it was a very worthwhile investment, even though I don't use Zwift. (Of course, a fluid trainer used in conjunction with a power meter could achieve the same results.)

Caliper

Yeah, I totally understand why services like Zwift aren't free forever. I guess I'd be totally happy with an interface where I could just control the road grade simulation, maybe program a series of "hills", follow a gpx file or flip to erg mode. Something like that which would be a one time app purchase. Maybe I need to find someone who knows how to program Android OS.

surak

Based off this, it seems that apps like Golden Cheetah. Kinetic Fit, and Xert can control a smart trainer for structured workouts and are free or have free versions.

Athens80

You may already own a higher-end cycling computer (e.g., Garmin, Wahoo) that will control a smart trainer to follow a course / profile.

PerfPro is a one time purchase.

exRunner

Abe_Froman

I''m using Zwift right now, after getting a smart trainer last month. I'm doing a 4 week FTP program on zwift, but I think I'll likely switch after that ends, and the end of cross season in December, and try Trainerroad. Seems it is more comprehensive for training, which really is why I have the trainer in the first place.

Hermes

With respect to hardware and software, one never knows how one will evolve and how much use a trainer will get. Does it turn into a white elephant?

To that point, I suggest more of a future proof approach and assure that hardware features can be added and are compatible with what you might want to do in the future. The other aspect is to buy more features than you need or think you need may offer a chance to try out services and you may find something you really like that requires more sophisticated hardware.

I like to ride the trainer / rollers and IMO, most people do not. Why do riders not like to ride the trainer - too boring and too hard. The too hard due to the trainer not feeling like the road but the boring can be managed by media stimulation and hey maybe the too hard by smart software driving a more realistic road feel to the trainer.

I like the trainer because I can do workouts that are beneficial to my training that are more difficult to execute outside due to terrain and traffic conditions. The trainer is a controlled environment. I like to visualize myself in different racing situations when I am on the trainer and use my imagination versus video feedback however, I am a firm believer / supporter of simulation that mimics reality. So if software and hardware can put me on a velodrome in the pole lane so that I can work on my black line technique and etc, I would be all over that. I find that I can visualize riding the black line (the shortest distance around the track) in my head while I am on the trainer. I try to couple an execution objective along with a training objective while on the trainer. That is what programs like Zwift and others are trying to do. You may like it.

colnago62

colnago62

Caliper

Well, I suppressed my luddite tendencies and have ordered the Kinetic Rock and roll control (Control being their term for a smart trainer since it seems they had already labeled some of their trainers "smart" for other features before the current smart trainers came about?) It's got all the bells and whistles and supports all the current communication protocols so hopefully is as future proof as I can stand and any of my worries can be overcome with better apps over time...

I do think I will like trainer. Heck, I like using the treadmill during the winter and I don't even like running. Just being on a bike will make things more fun. I'm also looking forward to being able to simulate real hills that are lacking here in Mi.

mvnsnd

Smart move getting the smart trainer. I had a KK rock n Roll for a few years with a power meter wheel. I could hit power targets by shifting to an appropriate gear, but could not simulate steep climbs at low cadence. This is one area where a smart trainer makes a difference. You can target a cadence and the trainer will try to apply the proper resistance so that you are also the right power. I now have a direto. The RnR sits idle nearby while I use the direto pretty exclusively.