Excelsius

So I have ridden with a few people before, but I have never been part of an official riding team. Tomorrow I am meeting my first team and will be joining group #2 in terms of speed (with #1 being the fastest). I haven't sat on anyone's wheel yet, at least not for like 15 years when I used to ride as part of a race team. We're doing about 40 miles at 16-18 mph with some moderate to steep hills.

Given the number of threads that pop up about people falling, getting messed up, or messing up their bikes, I was wondering: what are some of the most important guidelines to follow in a group ride to avoid a crash? I have already skimmed threads like "We're going to yell at you." Wanted to get more constructive advice than some pissed off guy ranting about a new rider joining his group.

Some background: I started riding a few weeks ago and have accumulated around 300 miles, including cat 5 hill rides with longest ride being over 50 miles with speeds between 16-22 mph, after which I was completely exhausted the entire day. Didn't want to do a team ride without at least some preparation.

darb85

pay attention, call out crap in the road and stick to the back and in the hole until you get comfortable in the group, then take your turn.

Tunnelrat81

Don't freak out if the pace they ride is faster than 16-18 avg.. Just ride steadily at the back of the group for safety, stay out of the wind and dig as deep as you need to to stay with them. That's what group rides are all about, pushing you far beyond what you'd be pushing yourself. Oh, and if after a valiant fight, you finally get dropped, just continue riding the route (or at least the full distance) rather than 'limping' back to the car. You're there for training, and there's no point in getting discouraged by being dropped. It's happened to all of us, and it's part of finding your way into a good group ride. If you're riding with a group that's not forcing you to dig really deep than you're in the wrong group.

And have fun. Group riding can be an extremely fun way of training.

-Jeremy

Excelsius

Being dropped is somewhat in the back of my mind for tomorrow - if they maintain like 16+ on a steep hill, I will probably fall behind. But I rarely give up since a couple of times I have already followed solo or small group riders and haven't been dropped yet. I eventually try to strike a conversation and if they're not really friendly, there is less of an incentive to stick with them after I have kept up for 20-30 miles. But I know what you mean about the extra motivation and to push yourself, especially when you see a few people getting dropped during the course. I do suck at cornering and almost always have to brake and then put in extra effort to close the small gap after the corner.

I don't know if this is normal, but my shoes touch the tire of my front wheel if I turn the stem far enough. Is this normal? Since I noticed it, I have been very reluctant to pedal during corners since if that front wheel touches my shoe I will definitely fall.

mkadam68

Shoe overlap is normal for some of us. On the road while actively riding, you shouldn't be turning your wheel far enough for it to hit the shoe, though. If you are, then you're not turning correctly.

As far as tips: keep a straight line, keep your hands on the bars, don't panic(!!) at anything(!!), keep pedaling, and try to stay off the brakes if you can-use momentum to slow or stay steady.

grwoolf

That's normal and not really an issue, epspecially moving at any normal speed.

On the group ride, be careful not to overlap the wheel in front of you. It's easy to do on a hilly route, especially if the guy in front of you stands all of a sudden, etc. This is the most common reason I see people going down on group rides.

Also, don't stare the wheel you are following, try to look up the road a bit so you can better anticipate surges. Try to stay smooth, save energy, and not piss off the guys behind you by using your brakes all the time.

brian416

Toe overlap is fairly normal, for me at least it takes a pretty tight turning radius, like turning around on the road to get my shoes to touch, they don't touch under any normal riding circumstances.


Watch the experienced people in the group as you ride, you'll be able to see how they behave in the group. If you're unsure of something, don't be afraid to ask how things work or what to, most people are glad to help a new person learn how to ride in a group. But most importantly, have fun.

Tunnelrat81

In any tight turns at reasonable speed, you should have your outside pedal down with ALL of your body weight being supported on it. It balances and stabilizes your bike while cornering. If you're stable going into corners, you'll have less need to brake, which means you'll have less momentum to fight back while coming out of the corners. Experienced racers and group riders both will always try to conserve momentum when possible and safe, and it allows everyone following them a smooth transition into and out of the turn. Braking into and then accelerating out of turns can shatter groups of riders, and at the very least is extremely annoying. So try to stay smooth both with your speed as well as your side to side movement. If you're smooth, any group will be happy to have you along. If you're braking, accelerating and swerving, you'll be less well received.

If you're able to pedal through a turn without pedal striking (maximum safe lean angle) than you'll have no problem at all with the toe-overlap issue. I recently changed shoes/pedals and re-adjusted my cleat location as compared to my old shoes/pedals...and now I have toe overlap. You only need to keep it in mind at stops and while cruising around the parking lots at slow speed. You'll figure it out quickly and it'll become second nature. Have a great time tomorrow and definitely report back about your experience.

-Jeremy

Excelsius

Had a great ride, but again gave everything I got and now I'm in agony plus headache. Apparently due to the daylight saving tonight a lot of the group B riders (a bit slower) didn't come. I kept up with A all the way until the major hills because I wasn't sure exactly who was A and who was B. In any case, once we hit the hill, it became clear! Those guys proceeded with great speed and I fell behind until one of the A/B riders caught up. But at least I was able to stay with him all the way through until we regrouped at the bottom. I had only done cat.5 hill before and this thing was cat.5 immediately followed by cat.4! I could literally feel the muscles in my legs almost cramping and locking up, so I had to alternate the effort between the legs until the final part of the hill was over. We had to regroup at the bottom and were waiting until a number of riders caught up, so I was definitely far from being last.

On the way back I made a stupid mistake - I felt pretty good and decided to catch two of the fastest guys on the ride who were going on their own. As I was trying to keep up with them, I realized these guys were maintaining 26-35MPH and under after a few miles of this I was killed. I fell behind and then the rest of group A passed me. But when B came a long, at this point just a few people, I stayed with them until the end of the ride. Again, we kept 20MPH+ speeds and I even got to lead for several miles in a very annoying headwind. Since I was already before I joined them, it was pretty tough to stay in the group and lead the last 10 miles. They thought that it was really great that I could ride like this after starting to ride just a few weeks ago.

The whole thing was almost 47 miles.

I feel like crap now and I cannot console my leg muscles.

Excelsius

That was great advice - I tried it today and possibly avoided a fall because at one point on the road I was pedaling at over 36mph to catch the first rider in the group and then out of nowhere this huge turn came in. I braked but also shifted weight and saved my arse. I now realize what the other rider meant when he yelled at me "turn out" when I passed him. But this didn't come until a few more miles later.

pdedes

what's a cat 5 hill? what's a cat 4 hill? you aren't stage racing.

Excelsius

I am using mapmyride.com with android and after a workout it calculates the grades. The categories are according to UCI for Tour de France.

I found a useful explanation here:

That definition is a bit off from mapmyride because the total steep climb distance was about 8 miles. Maybe the grade was different. I don't know.

beeballman

I feel like crap now and I cannot console my leg muscles.

Its pretty typical after a hard effort on the bike to have some soreness in the legs. Drink a protein shake or some chocolate milk , some tylenol and call it a night is what I usually do. Had a tough 61 mile ride today that me legs are still aching from, but should be back to normal tomorrow.

Beeballman

Tunnelrat81

Sore leg muscles are quite normal after this kind of effort, but feeling like crap is very likely due to you failing in the nutrition department. As you add miles and intensity to your rides, it becomes more an more imperative to keep on top of your eating and drinking. Unless it's super hot outside, I can ride out of my driveway and return after a 40-50 mile ride without any food or water....HOWEVER, if the ride involved a fair bit of intensity, I'll be ruined for at least the rest of the day, and continue to feel it even the day or two after. On that same ride, eating something significant (pb&j's, cliff bars, real food) every 20-30 minutes and drinking 2 or more bottles, I'll feel great the rest of the day, able to do chores etc. without feeling demolished. The difference is staggering, and you'll find that you'll have better endurance during the ride as well. You'll be able to recover more easily and maintain efforts to the end of the ride as well. NEVER wait until you feel hungry or thirsty, but do your best to eat and drink 'constantly' throughout the ride, and it will become very clear to you.

Great to hear that you had such a good time and were able to be an active participant in the pace even, that's great =). Keep at it, improve your eating/drinking, and you'll be riding with the A's for the duration in no time.

-Jeremy

Beaker

if you're already doing group rides, then you're making good progress. As you haven't ridden for 15yrs feel safe in the knowledge that you'll develop a lot more strength and endurance with more miles. Keep on doing the group rides, and to emphasize some of the points above - ride straight, predictably, and keep your eyes up at the height of the head/shoulders of the rider in front not his wheel. It'll help you see any problems early.

mkadam68

It's nice to look at data to track progress and have a little sense of accomplishment.

Oh, and BTW, no, they're not. The UCI doesn't categorize climbs in the TdF (anywhere?), the race promoter does. And they do it somewhat arbitrarily.

Excelsius

I'll give this a try during my next ride. Usually when I am done I am thirsty and very hungry. Maybe having Gatorade or a juice in my water bottle can take care of both thirst and nutrition. One of the guys in the group had FOUR bottle cages - 2 were on the seat. Had never seen anything like that and he said that's for his century rides. For weight weenies, that right there is well over 6 pounds.

It can be pretty hard to eat something solid while you're riding since most of the time you need both hands - open the ziplock, granola bar, banana, etc. Some group rides have a short rest stop, so this works, but I don't see how this can be possible when racing.

Excelsius

Well, I don't know. That's what I had read. As long as the site I'm using classifies it for me, I guess the source doesn't matter yet. It serves as a good guideline though to know the grade of the hills to keep track of progress. This is especially very useful when I am trying to plan a long distance trip. If I see it has cat.1 hill, I know I probably can't ride it out and will plan another route. It's very helpful.

jsutkeepspining

It's actually not that hard. After you get more riding in u, ull be able to ride with no hands without every swerving. also just for safety on your first couple of group rides eating solid food, maybe eat after you pulled when your riding back to the back of the paceline.

caloso

You did great. Next time will be a little easier, especially as you get to know the riders, the route, and the prevailing winds.

Things to work on (if you're not already doing this): not overlapping wheels; not allowing gaps to form in front of you; closing gaps smoothly and safely; taking pulls safely; skipping out on pulls if you're getting tired; stretching/drinking/eating on the bike.

Anything else, guys?