Paramount Stem Question
#2
Member
Thread Starter
I have have a 1974 P15 that came to me with a GB short reach stem and GB rando bars which I really like, my question is whether I can source and install the correct cinelli 1A stem and still use the GB bars, or is the cinelli stem diameter specific? Thanks, Todd
#3
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26427 Post(s)
Liked 10,383 Times
in
7,211 Posts
...someone will doubtless correct me if I'm wrong, but all the Cinelli stem and bar combinations from that era I have here are 26.4. There's no good way to use the GB bar in one with the possible exception of shimming it. I don't like to shim bars because those are the setups that always end up giving me problems.
Likes For 3alarmer:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,831 Times
in
1,997 Posts
Cinelli stems with the oval logo on top nut or allen key bard fitting will almost always be for a 26.4 mm bar.
The later winged logo version can be either 26.4 or 26.0..
You need to verify but I think those bars are 25.4mm You will need to loosen the bolt, move the bars over 1/4" and measure the bar clamp area.
There are some 3ttt Record stems with factory 25.4 bar ports. Most of the time from Raleigh Pros.
The later winged logo version can be either 26.4 or 26.0..
You need to verify but I think those bars are 25.4mm You will need to loosen the bolt, move the bars over 1/4" and measure the bar clamp area.
There are some 3ttt Record stems with factory 25.4 bar ports. Most of the time from Raleigh Pros.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,272
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
When one gets back into the 1960's some Paramounts came through with Titan stem/bar sets. These also have a distinct clamp size: 27.0mm in this case.
-----
When one gets back into the 1960's some Paramounts came through with Titan stem/bar sets. These also have a distinct clamp size: 27.0mm in this case.
-----
Last edited by juvela; 12-21-19 at 12:34 PM. Reason: spelln'
#6
Member
Thread Starter
That's what I thought I read somewhere, I think I will just end up sourcing a Schwinn "S" forged GB stem in the slightly longer length and leave it at that, like I said, I like the rando bend so I am stuck with that, will source the Schwinn Approved yellow dot brake levers with safety extensions at the same time I do the swap, Todd
#7
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,194
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1565 Post(s)
Liked 1,296 Times
in
866 Posts
I am remembering this style of GB stem being found in 3-1/2" and 4-1/4" with nothing in between (that's 89mm or 108mm).
Hopefully I am wrong. There are also the "S"-branded ones that seem to be about 10cm and found only on Schwinns of course.
89mm and 108mm/110mm make for a very different look and feel on my 1971 Supersports and 1973 Raleigh, but thankfully both setups can be fully comfortable for me.
Hopefully I am wrong. There are also the "S"-branded ones that seem to be about 10cm and found only on Schwinns of course.
89mm and 108mm/110mm make for a very different look and feel on my 1971 Supersports and 1973 Raleigh, but thankfully both setups can be fully comfortable for me.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,701
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 650 Times
in
336 Posts
Why a Cinelli specifically? Tons of 60s/70s stems came in the 25.4 clamp diameter needed for your bars. 3TTT, Ambrosio, Nitto, Dia Compe etc...
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,059
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,059
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
That's what I thought I read somewhere, I think I will just end up sourcing a Schwinn "S" forged GB stem in the slightly longer length and leave it at that, like I said, I like the rando bend so I am stuck with that, will source the Schwinn Approved yellow dot brake levers with safety extensions at the same time I do the swap, Todd
How about full pics of the Paramount plz?
#11
Member
Thread Starter
Just because every reference I have seen for original equipment on the early to mid 70s Paramounts cited a cinelli stem and bars, not 100 percent sure but I recall GB forged stems coming in a myriad of lengths, the "S" forged stems may very well have been more limited, but I am pretty sure they were often found in the 100 mm length that would suit me better, as far as the Twin Sticks, that's a fabulous idea but if I end up swapping out bits and pieces I would more likely gravitate towards the Schwinn Approved Sun Tour bar ends, only limiting factor on those is sourcing the "Schwinn" marked cable stop. Todd
Last edited by Baypathbike; 12-21-19 at 03:28 PM.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,059
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
Anything that the factory couldn't do was then done by the dealer, virtually nothing was off the table, many things were no charge.
Its possible yours is original, might have been done by the shop when the customer asked for the rando bars which many did and Schwinn used them on many stock.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 14,272
Mentioned: 415 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3814 Post(s)
Liked 3,345 Times
in
2,182 Posts
-----
Cinelli stem/bar may have been one of the numerous extra cost options available when ordering a Paramount at this time.
We should hear from Metacortex here; he has the catalogues & dealer materials complete in his head.
-----
Cinelli stem/bar may have been one of the numerous extra cost options available when ordering a Paramount at this time.
We should hear from Metacortex here; he has the catalogues & dealer materials complete in his head.
-----
Likes For juvela:
Likes For Baypathbike:
#15
mycocyclist
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,235
Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 822 Times
in
453 Posts
Flip Them Bars, Or At Least The Question
"On touring bicycles I use the super-rare Cinelli Campus handlebar, the Nitto (B135 in 45cms) and SR Randonneur (44)
On older bicycles (50s) I use a GB Randonneur handlebar..." @hobbs1951
(Of course, I've never even seen the Cinelli "Campus" bars, and recently bought a '72 Opaque Green Super Sport for the GB bars and stem, among other reasons...)
Last edited by machinist42; 12-21-19 at 04:10 PM.
#16
Senior Member
Correct me if I be wrong but the insert diameter on those S stems are .831 or 22. Is the GB stem 22.2?
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,059
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4513 Post(s)
Liked 6,389 Times
in
3,674 Posts
Very cool, love that blue, tx!
Here's my 74 bought to confirm sizing this big, fits like a glove, rides like a dream although the Crane/LeTour RD shifting is far more finicky than Rally's for me, probably need to drill down, check hanger alignment, clean, lube and adjust or may be worn.
With the big Merz it was bought to validate, both ride much better than all the 60-64's that I already have, now what do I do?
Here's my 74 bought to confirm sizing this big, fits like a glove, rides like a dream although the Crane/LeTour RD shifting is far more finicky than Rally's for me, probably need to drill down, check hanger alignment, clean, lube and adjust or may be worn.
With the big Merz it was bought to validate, both ride much better than all the 60-64's that I already have, now what do I do?
Last edited by merziac; 12-21-19 at 05:01 PM.
#18
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26427 Post(s)
Liked 10,383 Times
in
7,211 Posts
...this one came to me from the second owner, who swore it was all original.
But if it were me and I really wanted a Rando bend on the bar, I'd just buy a Nitto bar and stem. They're not real ornate, and are very well made.
#19
Senior Member
#22
Member
Thread Starter
Think the stem you are measuring is the later version of the S branded GB hoping the earlier version vintage-correct for my ride might work.
#23
Senior Member
IMO it's best not to mix and match, and I'm not a big fan of shims either. If you want a Cinelli stem, get a Cinelli bar to and set it up race style. That's what they're meant for. I think if you like the feel and fit GB rando bars, keep the matching GB stem. It's cool anyway.
Or is it that the stem is too short? You imply that but didn't say it outright. There must be a lonely GB stem in a longer length out there somewhere.
Cinelli was always 26.4 during their heyday, which was their own standard and best used with itself. They didn't switch to 26.0 till sometime in the 90's when quill stems were already on their way out.
Or is it that the stem is too short? You imply that but didn't say it outright. There must be a lonely GB stem in a longer length out there somewhere.
Cinelli was always 26.4 during their heyday, which was their own standard and best used with itself. They didn't switch to 26.0 till sometime in the 90's when quill stems were already on their way out.
Last edited by Salamandrine; 12-21-19 at 08:00 PM.
#24
mycocyclist
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,235
Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 822 Times
in
453 Posts
Radnner Anyone?
The "S" stem for my '72 Super Sport measures out the same. I happen to be polishing it and the chromed steel GB non-"S" stem from my '64 Sport Super Sport, (which is "Super" pantographed), and the earlier '64 stem is standard, while the '72 is .833.
#25
Member
Thread Starter
Well that settles it then, my history has been with Raleighs and am relatively new to working on Paramount and fillet brazed Schwinn, never would have thought that the insert diameter of GB vs. Schwinn-labelled GB would have been any different. If you keep your mind open you learn something new every day, Todd
Likes For Baypathbike: