Why the LBS are dying out ...
04-08-19, 12:00 PM
#176
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I see many posts in this thread that have no clue about the operations of a small local based, low margin business. If you need a warehousing operation to satisfy your needs, an LBS is not the place to go. Stop *****ing about it and move on.
I have worked In shops since 1983 and understand the business. It is a tough business to thrive in and requires an owner that understands they cannot stock everything to please everyone. One that understands ordering a 50 dollar item that costs 5 bucks to ship and 5 bucks to process once it is in the store, and to install it without a labor charge is a start on the path to death of the business because the margin is gone. Margin is everything for a small business.
Every shop I have worked in from California to Michigan has done well because they developed good practices, and good customers, ones that enjoyed the relationship between them and the employees. Customers that were willing to wait for parts that are not stocked to come in along with the rest of the weekly order because to pay shipping and processing for single items on a daily basis is not possible. Customers that don't have to have it now. Customers that value the relationship they have with the shop, because it is more important than having it now or saving a few bucks.
Those shops did not compete for customers that had no interest in them as they make nasty neighbors in the long run.
If you need a warehousing operation to satisfy your needs, then buy online from a warehousing operation and stop *****ing about it.
I have worked In shops since 1983 and understand the business. It is a tough business to thrive in and requires an owner that understands they cannot stock everything to please everyone. One that understands ordering a 50 dollar item that costs 5 bucks to ship and 5 bucks to process once it is in the store, and to install it without a labor charge is a start on the path to death of the business because the margin is gone. Margin is everything for a small business.
Every shop I have worked in from California to Michigan has done well because they developed good practices, and good customers, ones that enjoyed the relationship between them and the employees. Customers that were willing to wait for parts that are not stocked to come in along with the rest of the weekly order because to pay shipping and processing for single items on a daily basis is not possible. Customers that don't have to have it now. Customers that value the relationship they have with the shop, because it is more important than having it now or saving a few bucks.
Those shops did not compete for customers that had no interest in them as they make nasty neighbors in the long run.
If you need a warehousing operation to satisfy your needs, then buy online from a warehousing operation and stop *****ing about it.
04-09-19, 06:49 AM
#177
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the extinction of LBS
The problem with these threads is that the OP usually has a sample size of one, or occasionally two or three. Trying to generalize from these small samples is never useful.
FWIW, I have had some bad experiences with shops, and many good-to-great experiences. It just really depends on the shop.
FWIW, I have had some bad experiences with shops, and many good-to-great experiences. It just really depends on the shop.
04-09-19, 09:01 AM
#178
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I used to read comments on a site, where my favorite troll would comment on every long thread..."too long, didn't read". LOL!. I have to admit I couldn't make it through all of this. Like art, all I know is what I like. For me, it's someone being attentive, but not annoyingly. I give people lee-way for either.
So my experience with LBS is that I need to feel listened to. Ready to pull the trigger on a new bike this Spring, I went to two local shops - one is a larger outfit...much more inventory, although with the Specialized Spring sale, I doubt they had the bike I wanted in my size - something I expected and didn't really matter.
Then a smaller shop, that has been in Aurora Co for 35 years....and can you guess which shop got my business? And not just for the short term. All it took was a decent interaction.
At the larger shop (a chain I have used for service), no one even asked me what they could do to help. I had sales people (?) walk right past me. At the smaller shop, a man working in the service department just started a conversation. Told him what I was looking for and ordered it on the spot. I found my shop.
That said, it doesn't mean I would not order stuff online. I bought my computer, helmet, shoes, pedals all online at costs I know they can't match. No qualms from them at all - as a matter of fact they saved the last pair of pedals I wanted for me in case mine did not arrive in time! For that, I'll gladly pay a bit more for the seat and possible handlebars I want from them, even if I can by online cheaper.
I can understand the OP's view on the parts to support what the shop sells, since it's more of a tool that I'd also expect my shop to carry. But I disagree that the LBS are dying out...and I want to make sure they don't. Can't imagine boxing my bike up and shipping it to Amazon to get it fixed. That, and I love a good shop where the people speak the language of bikes, and don't look or talk down to me....
<Sits back and waits for "Too long, didn't read" comments<lol...>
So my experience with LBS is that I need to feel listened to. Ready to pull the trigger on a new bike this Spring, I went to two local shops - one is a larger outfit...much more inventory, although with the Specialized Spring sale, I doubt they had the bike I wanted in my size - something I expected and didn't really matter.
Then a smaller shop, that has been in Aurora Co for 35 years....and can you guess which shop got my business? And not just for the short term. All it took was a decent interaction.
At the larger shop (a chain I have used for service), no one even asked me what they could do to help. I had sales people (?) walk right past me. At the smaller shop, a man working in the service department just started a conversation. Told him what I was looking for and ordered it on the spot. I found my shop.
That said, it doesn't mean I would not order stuff online. I bought my computer, helmet, shoes, pedals all online at costs I know they can't match. No qualms from them at all - as a matter of fact they saved the last pair of pedals I wanted for me in case mine did not arrive in time! For that, I'll gladly pay a bit more for the seat and possible handlebars I want from them, even if I can by online cheaper.
I can understand the OP's view on the parts to support what the shop sells, since it's more of a tool that I'd also expect my shop to carry. But I disagree that the LBS are dying out...and I want to make sure they don't. Can't imagine boxing my bike up and shipping it to Amazon to get it fixed. That, and I love a good shop where the people speak the language of bikes, and don't look or talk down to me....
<Sits back and waits for "Too long, didn't read" comments<lol...>
… Having the LBS do it all, in my case is a really good deal. The shop is one block away, and they will fix many things at a convenient time for me. They are so expert that they can do these things quickly, better than me, and often spot problems that I did not see. Whenever I leave the shop, the bikes ride as if new again…
I tip well, not, “To Insure Prompt Service,” but because I am so appreciative of their work. Hats off to Back Bay Bikes.
I tip well, not, “To Insure Prompt Service,” but because I am so appreciative of their work. Hats off to Back Bay Bikes.
Jim from somewhere between New Jersey and Vermont gave us a post which is more than one foot long...
The rest of you just need to surrender and bow down
The rest of you just need to surrender and bow down
…I use ellipses,"..." to eliminate as much as possible, and still leave the context of the quote comprehensible; and I bold key words and phrases to emphasize the core content of the discussion.
Furthermore, while even if nobody reads my posts, I do try to communicate clearly to the reader. At least I try to evenly space, and keep my paragraphs short for easier readability, FWIW.
Furthermore, while even if nobody reads my posts, I do try to communicate clearly to the reader. At least I try to evenly space, and keep my paragraphs short for easier readability, FWIW.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
(from a now-closed thread in 2013) I only read the threads and posts that interest me. If I'm particularly interested in the content then I'm motivated to read no matter how long.
It takes some time to write a properly composed long post, and I take my chances that my expenditure of time might connect with another interested reader.
For me, the art of composition is to make my posts easy to read, particularly if they are “long.” Paragraph breaks are certainly key tool to do that-- seven lines maximum. I would suggest that three such paragraphs would constitute a “long” post, excluding textbox quotations.
It takes some time to write a properly composed long post, and I take my chances that my expenditure of time might connect with another interested reader.
For me, the art of composition is to make my posts easy to read, particularly if they are “long.” Paragraph breaks are certainly key tool to do that-- seven lines maximum. I would suggest that three such paragraphs would constitute a “long” post, excluding textbox quotations.
...I have been an avid cyclist, as a lifestyle since about 1972; self-described year-round commuter, occasional centurian (in-training during the nice weather), and former cycle tourist, including a cross-country ride…
I happened serendipitously on Bike Forums in 2008, and it was frankly incredible to find a community that shared so many concerns I had kept to myself as a lone cyclist.
This enthusiasm has definitely increased my enjoyment of cycling. As far as improving it, what I have gotten directly from BF [includes...]:
I happened serendipitously on Bike Forums in 2008, and it was frankly incredible to find a community that shared so many concerns I had kept to myself as a lone cyclist.
This enthusiasm has definitely increased my enjoyment of cycling. As far as improving it, what I have gotten directly from BF [includes...]:
- the opportunity to post and literally "journal" my thoughts and activities about cycling and lifestyle (even if nobody else reads them), but which I wouldn't write down otherwise.
Incidentally,I have posted to another now-closed thread:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
In 2013, I got involved in one of the most hostile brouhahas I have ever read on BikeForums…about paragraphs! My adversary shall remain nameless.
On a now-closed thread in a reply to a long, unbroken post I wrote:
On a now-closed thread in a reply to a long, unbroken post I wrote:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
Paragraphs, please. 
PS: I did read your post, in its entirety.
PS: I did read your post, in its entirety.
Originally Posted by xxx
I wouldn't spend near as much time with you in person, let alone stop for paragraphs. ****, I might even let go of punctuation in person, except when you feel the heel of my boot hit your chin
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-10-19 at 04:39 AM.
04-09-19, 09:22 AM
#179
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Shop mechanics and bike shops are far from interchangeable. As a still relatively novice cyclist I'd taken my bike to the LBS I'd bought it at because I'd stripped the water bottle cage mount and read online that it could be drilled out. I was told that it would be impossible to repair and that I'd have to take it to a carbon frame repair shop because the only way to replace it was to cut out a section of the carbon frame and replace it. That didn't seem right but he was very insistent.
So I took it to a different shop and they replaced it in like 15 minutes while I went next door to have a coffee. The lesson I learned was that there are some bike shops you go to for good prices on bikes, and others you go to when you need repairs or advice.
So I took it to a different shop and they replaced it in like 15 minutes while I went next door to have a coffee. The lesson I learned was that there are some bike shops you go to for good prices on bikes, and others you go to when you need repairs or advice.
04-09-19, 12:23 PM
#180
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I don't go to a lbs, as there isn't one in my small town 1200 ppl, I'd have to drive 2 hours away to the nearest one. I might be fixing to get my road bike tuned up there though. I love bike shops though.
04-09-19, 01:37 PM
#181
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Why Apple stores are dying out...
I went to my local Apple store yesterday and they were out of the iPhone case I went there to get.
Pretty simple item to stock and I saw one there just last week.
I could not even imagine how righteously indignant I would get if I dropped off my MacBook for a repair and I had to wait a WHOLE week to get it back.
Dump all your stock now.
I went to my local Apple store yesterday and they were out of the iPhone case I went there to get.
Pretty simple item to stock and I saw one there just last week.
I could not even imagine how righteously indignant I would get if I dropped off my MacBook for a repair and I had to wait a WHOLE week to get it back.
Dump all your stock now.
__________________
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton
04-09-19, 03:17 PM
#182
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Tell me about it. I went into my local Apple store to get someone to work on my vintage Pentium running Windows 3.1, and they looked at me like I was crazy. Clearly ANY computer store should be able to satisfy my highly specific problem, regardless of how many people are flocking in for what they already provide. Sheesh!
04-10-19, 03:48 AM
#183
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The problem with these threads is that the OP usually has a sample size of one, or occasionally two or three. Trying to generalize from these small samples is never useful.
FWIW, I have had some bad experiences with shops, and many good-to-great experiences. It just really depends on the shop.
FWIW, I have had some bad experiences with shops, and many good-to-great experiences. It just really depends on the shop.
04-10-19, 07:22 AM
#184
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What we have here is a whine thread with a misleading title.
Nothing about the OP is about why bike shops in general are doing well or poorly. The post is all about the OP going to the wrong bike shop.
Lots of bike shops are going under,and probably for a lot of different reasons. But the "bike shop" itself still offers services people want---such as bike service---plus can be a good place for people to look at and even buy bikes and accessories. Good businesses adapt, bad businesses---or businesses whose owners are tired of adapting and decide they've had enough---close up.
if I had owned a traditional "bike shop" which carried several lines, sold some used bikes, had some parts and accessories, and had a good mechanic or two, and couldn't keep up because the internet took the parts/accessory business and the manufacturers all said, "Carry my line and no other," I might bail as well.
Nothing about the OP is about why bike shops in general are doing well or poorly. The post is all about the OP going to the wrong bike shop.
Lots of bike shops are going under,and probably for a lot of different reasons. But the "bike shop" itself still offers services people want---such as bike service---plus can be a good place for people to look at and even buy bikes and accessories. Good businesses adapt, bad businesses---or businesses whose owners are tired of adapting and decide they've had enough---close up.
if I had owned a traditional "bike shop" which carried several lines, sold some used bikes, had some parts and accessories, and had a good mechanic or two, and couldn't keep up because the internet took the parts/accessory business and the manufacturers all said, "Carry my line and no other," I might bail as well.
04-10-19, 08:08 AM
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Can we get back to talking about coffee?
04-10-19, 01:15 PM
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Some more stuff with similar value added "benefits" that you can throw your dollars at are suggested here:
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/dail...-shopping-list
A highly recommended item is "One Hundred Billion Kisses, the latest fragrance by Jeff Bezos."
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/dail...-shopping-list
A highly recommended item is "One Hundred Billion Kisses, the latest fragrance by Jeff Bezos."
04-10-19, 04:38 PM
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So ... judging from the images, the reason LBSs are dying are Indyfab's custom Ti frame and pro wrestling.
I like that theory.
I like that theory.
04-10-19, 05:36 PM
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04-10-19, 05:43 PM
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No, they're dying because Wall Mart has a conspiracy to kill them..Just wait until Wall Mart starts selling carbon fibre bikes with electronic shifting and hydro brakes for $ 300 dollars, that will be the end of bikes shops.
04-10-19, 06:48 PM
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Wow lots of opinions. TheOP seemed to have a very simple type repair
depending on how many repairs were before him that would be the only thing that would determine the time frame. A lot of local bike shops just push new sales for the gigantic Chinese companies. Luckily I found a local bike shop that is pretty good and fast on repairs. As far as parts, the internet is pretty tough to beat.
depending on how many repairs were before him that would be the only thing that would determine the time frame. A lot of local bike shops just push new sales for the gigantic Chinese companies. Luckily I found a local bike shop that is pretty good and fast on repairs. As far as parts, the internet is pretty tough to beat.
04-10-19, 09:38 PM
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04-11-19, 04:13 AM
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Today is Wawa's anniversary. Free coffee for everyone. Regardless of bitterness.
04-11-19, 04:31 AM
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Who in their right mind would pay $6 for a cup of coffee ??
04-11-19, 04:34 AM
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Here is a tip: If you want to keep your LBS alive, you need to visit them at least once per week, and bring a case of beer for LBS employees.
04-11-19, 05:14 AM
#196
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I’m an avid supporter of my LBS.
… Having the LBS do it all, in my case is a really good deal. The shop is one block away, and they will fix many things at a convenient time for me.
They are so expert that they can do these things quickly, better than me, and often spot problems that I did not see. Whenever I leave the shop, the bikes ride as if new again…
I tip well, not, “To Insure Prompt Service,” but because I am so appreciative of their work. Hats off to Back Bay Bikes.
They are so expert that they can do these things quickly, better than me, and often spot problems that I did not see. Whenever I leave the shop, the bikes ride as if new again…
I tip well, not, “To Insure Prompt Service,” but because I am so appreciative of their work. Hats off to Back Bay Bikes.
Tip your LBS
Personally, I think tipping in anything but cash is condescending. As described above, I have a congenial, but respectful relation with all the mechanics at my shop, but I don’t think any of us have intentions to be “buddies,” and share some brews, bourbon, doughnuts, or whatever; or even know their preferences.
Imagine offering a non-cash tip to those workers who are traditionally tipped in cash…waiters, hotel bellmen, cabbies, hairstylists…
For me, my bike mechanics provide a vital service that I think about for example when hurtling down a steep hill, secure that the bike won't fall apart.
Personally, I think tipping in anything but cash is condescending. As described above, I have a congenial, but respectful relation with all the mechanics at my shop, but I don’t think any of us have intentions to be “buddies,” and share some brews, bourbon, doughnuts, or whatever; or even know their preferences.
Imagine offering a non-cash tip to those workers who are traditionally tipped in cash…waiters, hotel bellmen, cabbies, hairstylists…
For me, my bike mechanics provide a vital service that I think about for example when hurtling down a steep hill, secure that the bike won't fall apart.
It it costs more than $6/cup, plus a tip, it might be alright as long as the establishment draws only the right kind of people.
[If] it doesn't cost at least $6/cup, plus a tip, it will be worse than weasel wee-wee.
[If] it doesn't cost at least $6/cup, plus a tip, it will be worse than weasel wee-wee.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-11-19 at 05:59 AM. Reason: added quotes by I-Like-To=Bike and wolfchild
04-11-19, 05:51 AM
#197
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04-11-19, 05:55 AM
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04-11-19, 06:40 AM
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BTW, a bike shop that survives a rent crisis *and* an identity crisis (bbb? papa wheelies?) has to be doing something right too. But agree about tipping for service, especially for free tune-ups.
-mr. bill
* Whole, 2%, Nonfat, Almond, Coconut, Soy
04-11-19, 06:59 AM
#200
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