abshipp 

It seems like my main road bike has a crack in the downtube, so I'm looking into getting another frameset to replace it.

You guys know the typical drill, I'm looking for vintage lugged steel, but I do have a few things that I'm looking for in particular.

I really fit the best on something with a 56-58mm top tube and a 72°-73° seat tube angle, and at least a 60cm seat tube.

I need to run at least 28C tires due to the awful roads around here, clearance for bigger is always a plus!

Since I want to use this as my main road bike, I would appreciate reasonably short chainstays and a nice, reasonably light double-butted tubeset (I'm about 190lbs, so maybe nothing really noodly). My only real experience is with Columbus Tenax that mid-late 80s Schwinns are made of, but I'm definitely open to other flavors.

My intentions are to eventually put some modern 10-11 speed components on, so rear spacing of at least 126mm would be great. I'm not scared of spreading the rear triangle, but I'd rather go from 126-130m than 120-130mm.

And last, but not least, I would absolutely love a bright, obnoxious paint job, although it's not a deal-breaker if its not. Think pinks, dayglow colors, or wild 80s paint jobs. Colors that would look good with black components on them. I really only say this because it's way easier to find good deals on modern black components than anything in silver.

Currently, my thoughts are that if I stay within my comfort zone of Schwinn bikes, that a 86-87 Prologue might fit the bill nicely.

Also, not looking to spend much more than $200 $250.

I know it may seem like I'm looking for a unicorn, but thankfully I'm also in no real rush. I doubt I would be in a buying position for at least a month, so I can be patient. It helps that I have a couple other bikes that I can ride in the mean-time .

Thanks!

Pompiere

How about a 1984 Paramount Touring frame in Fireball Red? 63.5 cm center to top ST, 58 cm center to center TT. Chain stays are 44cm. It has 35-40 mm tire clearance between the frame and fork. 126 mm spacing. It has rack and fender mounts, plus braze-ons for 3 water bottles. Columbus tubing. Paramount (Stronglite) roller bearing headset. BB not included. I had it built up, and it rode great, but it is really too big. I normally ride a 58 cm. Asking $300 plus shipping.

shoota 

Holy crap this is exactly what I'm looking for and didn't even know existed. I need one my size.

Why can't I find it in the catalogs?

Iowegian

Yum. Good thing I have too many projects or I would jump on that one.

Pompiere

Paramounts were custom ordered, so they just have a page that talks about the Paramount line, but no specifics. It does say you can get touring, racing or track frames and whatever braze-ons you want.

abshipp 

Replied via PM to everyone!

Some beautiful frames in here, keep them coming!

Thanks!

shoota 

Ah, true. Man I wish that was my size.

Pompiere

Me too, as in my size.

shoota 

How tall are you?

Pompiere

5' 8", but I can just straddle the Paramount with 34 inch stand over height. Most people my height have a 30 inch inseam. Most of my other bikes are 58 cm, but I prefer a shorter top tube, like 56 cm, instead of the typical square dimensions.

shoota 

Wow I'm surprised you can even stand over this at all. I'm 6' and don't think I could make this work, unless I'm missing something?

Lascauxcaveman 

Yeah, me too. I'm 5'11" with rather long legs and can barely straddle my 64x58 early 70s Super Course.

Oooh, that reminds me - @abshipp - pretty much all those early 70s Raleighs have shortish top tubes. And generous tire clearance: 32mm no problem, 35mm and 38mm on most of them. And varying degrees of 531-ness.

beicster 

PM sent on the Paramount if @abshipp passes it up.

cdmurphy

It sounds like you're in the same boat I am -- very long legs for your height. I don't have any frames to offer, but have some suggestions. Generally, stick to frames made before about 1980. That was when almost everyone started offering "proportionally sized" frames, where the top tube grew substantially with the seat tube. Prior to that, a 52cm bike and a 62cm bike from most production makers would share a 56 or 57cm top tube. Also, your tire clearance requirements are easy to meet with older frames, but by the mid 80's, many top quality frames were designed around 23 or 25mm tires, without clearance for much more.

If you can find one, I heartily recommend the 1975-79 Centurion Semi Pro, or Pro Tour. They were made with Tange #1 or #2 tubing, and used a 56.5cm top tube across the range of sizes. Also, I just picked up an early Fuji Finest. The 72-75 versions came with very short top tubes. (Mine is 62cm x 55cm). I haven't had one, but I've seen several Shogun branded bikes from the early 80s with short top tubes as well.

If you do want to find a more modern, 80s-90s bike -- look for touring bikes. Some of them were made with shorter top tubes, and greater tire clearance even when racing bikes were getting more specialized. The only gotcha is they tended to use heavier tubing, making for a more staid, dead ride compared to a high end bike with light tubing.

Dfrost 

Last ride 76 

If you're still looking, I have a 63cm turquoise '87 Bianchi Trofeo. Tt ctc 57 1/2. It has some scuffs and scrapes, but not too bad. I can post pics some time tomorrow. Bianchi "Formula Two" spec'ed Columbus tubing, throughout. $150 plus shipping, and includes Shimano 105 headset and Shimano sealed BB. Way too big for me. I was expecting a 59.
Eric

abshipp 

Thanks for the suggestions, I've managed to cool my heels and finally convince myself that I'm okay with taking a while to look around to find something that really suits me, so I'll start looking around for the Centurions you mentioned.

I do have an 86 Schwinn Passage frame that I'm trying to decide what to do with, it has almost everything that I'm looking for - 72.5° HT & ST angles and nice looking lugs, but I'm just not terribly thrilled with the super long touring chainstays or the cantilever post placement. I also can't find much info about whether the Tenax tubing on the touring bikes is any different from the rest of the road bike line that Schwinn was producing at the time, so I can't really predict how it will ride unless I build it up complete.

I really am thinking about my next bike being a well equipped 650b all-road/randonneuring bike, but turning the Passage into that would require a lot of brazing and rework, as well as a new fork with 65mm+ of rake to get the trail figures I'm looking for. Currently I'm weighing my options about making those modifications or saving my pennies for something brand new like a Crust Lightning Bolt or Black Mountain Road+

cdmurphy

Look carefully at the tubing specifications for most of these "new" bikes. I'm afraid most of them are built with oversized tubes, with the same wall thicknesses as older upper-midrange tubesets. The lightning bolt in particular uses Reynolds 853, but in oversized .8/.5/.8. That's going to make it stiffer than your Passage, while being perhaps 50% stronger. (Due to fat Americans, lawyers, and overseas production, new lightweight == yesterday's heavy weight.)

Speaking of Schwinn Passages -- here's one I did a few years ago:
DSC02627.jpg by c79murphy, on Flickr

It's 700c, not 650b, but it would have made a nice 650b bike as well. I re-brazed the canti posts to the more modern 80mm spacing, fixed a poor seatstay / lug connection, re-raked the fork for about 40mm trail, and added mid fork lowrider braze-ons. All in all, it rode well -- not quite as sprightly as my Centurion Semi-pros, but still very nice. More of a stable, unflappable feeling, without feeling truck-like or dead. Geometry wise, it was kind of a throwback. 72.5 parallel angles, short top tube (56 or 57cm?? on a 62cm frame) , and lots of tire clearance. I don't think anyone knows exactly what Tenax was, or if it was all the same. There are a few posts floating around from folks at Schwinn that suggest it was Columbus tubing that either wasn't held to quite the same finish standards, or possibly the alloy was a touch off. It's assumed the light race bikes got the equivalent of SL tubing, while touring bikes like the Passage probably got SP or a mix of SP and heavier tubes.

Finally, one more brand to throw out for your search: Sekai. Their top end bikes were made by Miki, the same Japanese producer of the Centurion Semi Pro, Professional, and Pro Tour. The Sekai 4000 was essentially identical to the Semi Pro, and can sometimes be found cheaper. (Look around Seattle, as Sekai was a house brand of a bike store based there.) Also, the Centurion Super Elite in the first 2 years or so was specced almost the same as the Semi Pro, just without all the chrome. A '78-'80 Super Elite would also be a great bike to look for, and they usually go much cheaper.

Dfrost 

abshipp 

That Passage kills me every time you post it. Such a beautiful result.

One leg of the fork on my Passage was bent between the crown and cantilever boss, and while it is straight enough now to ride I think I will pass on having this one re-raked and instead try to find one with a slightly longer axle-to-crown measurement. Hopefully if I can find another fork that has about 5-10mm longer ATC the geometry of the bike will be preserved after re-raking. Not sure what trail figure I will be aiming for, I believe that my Velo Orange sits at 37mm trail, and I don't have any complaints with that.

I'm glad to hear your impressions of the ride quality of the Passage. While I'm not sure if I have ever ridden a really spritely frame, I certainly have ridden a few that feel pretty dead. Unfortunately my Velo Orange fits in that category, which is unfortunate because I love the features and front end geometry. I'm really looking for a solid brevet bike, but hopefully one that doesn't weigh a ton either. I rode the VO on a 100k and that was about the longest I think I would want to ride it.

I have talked to Mark before about fork modifications. Since then I have found that Yellow Jersey is about an hour drive from me, and will do pretty much anything that you possibly want to a bike!

Not that I wouldn't want a bike to have the full Gugie facelift, I'd just rather not ship when there's another framebuilder at my doorstep!

gugie 

I'm from Portland, OR, where "buy local" means someone in an 8 block radius of your home.

eom 

Plain label Miki built bike.
Tange #5 66 cm seat 58 cm top tube.
Fits 700 x 34 actual with no room for fenders. 584 x 38 with lots of room.

abshipp 

Looks like I found what I was looking for in a 1981 Trek 716!

Thanks for all the help and the suggestions, everyone!