signat

Hey all,

I'm new to this forum, and before being roasted I just want to tell the whole story!

Recently bought my fist bike as I wanted to get into this sport. Had been scoping the second hand market for quite a while, I was looking for something simple. Stumbled across an ad with a bike that seemed to be high quality with a reasonable price. I don't know much about brands so did a few searches and it seemed to be a good one, eager as I am I decided to go for it.

It was when I got home from purchasing it that I realised that things might not be as good as I thought. Or rather, too good to be true. After some more digging I realise that this is most certainly not a Cinelli frame (even if it had the stickers). Although the other specs on it seems to be quite good.

To be honest, I still like the bike very much, and I'm happy about the purchase. The seller seem honest and I don't think it was intended to be a "fake". But before I remove all the stickers I just want to

a) make sure it's a fake and
b) see if anyone here have a clue in what it might be

And I'm sorry if this does not belong here! Glad to have joined the community nonetheless.

Also realising that I'm not allowed to publish the pictures yet since I'm a new member.. So maybe someone would be up for looking at them through a DM?

masi61

This subject comes up quite often. Cinelli parts are quite common on steel road bike frames from all kinds of builders of all different nations.

We really do need some good photos to say for sure. Cinelli cast bottom bracket shells are quite common and I want to say Cinelli dropouts are too. What brand is on your head tube badge? Cinelli?

Back in the mid 1970’s my local bike shop sold “Windsor” frames which were described as a “Mexican Cinelli”. My understanding of the Windsor was that it copied an authentic 1960’s era Cinelli frame with certain iconic Cinelli features such as fastback seat stays with a unique seatpost binder bolt that fit into recesses in the fastback stays. Chrome lugs were also offered & said to be a Cinelli thing. Lots of bikes had chrome lugs though.

Cinelli is now a brand that is part of the Italian conglomerate that manufactures Columbus frame tubing. Modern Cinelli bikes are still good, they just don’t have the provenance of a “true” Cinelli.

I have a genuine 1978 California Masi that is a work of art. Similar to if you had a vintage 1960’s Cinelli. Modern Masi’s are made in Taiwan, a few limited edition ones were made in the USA.

Get those 10 posts so you can show us what you’ve got.

signat

Gotcha! Yeah I've noticed when searching around that this is a pretty common thing that is happening. Totally get that it's hard without the pics, I'll work on my posting to get up to 10 so that I can show you all.

I've read about the Mexican Cinelli, but looking through pics I don't think it's one of those either. Regarding the the head tube badge, it's only a sticker, so doesn't really give much either, but do for sure say Cinelli. But this sticker pack seem to be quite easy to just order online as well.

Appreciate the answer with the additional background information, won't do anything drastic until I've posted the pictures for sure

Insidious C. 

Here is a link to OP's photo album

VS3

Sorry to hear this happened to you.

signat

Oh, what a legend : D Thanks.

I should also add that the front and rear wheels aren't matching right now, but that I got the new wheel for the front as well. I just need to change it.

Thanks, a good lesson though. I'll make sure to read up on things before my next purchase for sure!

juvela

-----

do not see anything to suggest italianess

lug pattern, fork crown and shell are BOCAMA products

looks more like it might originate from France or Belgium

forum member MauriceMoss will be able to identify the manufacturer for you

should you make any additional pictures please make some from the bicycle's drive side

-----

Olefeller77 

Have you tried to ride it? If you are looking for a true brand name that is one thing, but You might like the one you got.

signat

Thank's a ton for the information. I added a picture from the drive side as well.

I paid $250 for it. And that's why I in hindsight realised that It must be fake, because after looking through posts everything indicated that they must be more expensive. Anyways, what are your thought on this, was I completely ripped off or is it an okay purchase? Again, this is my first real bike and I've so far enjoyed riding it, but I lack any real comparison. I'll for sure remove the stickers though.

signat

Yeah, so I actually like it, and I don't care about the brand to be honest. But again, I don't have any reference, so not sure if I was ripped off or not. Nonetheless I so far like it. But I don't want to keep the stickers obviously, so will remove them

Edit: okay so "ripped off" is the wrong word, I actually thought the seller was pretty trustworthy.

juvela

-----

simple checks you can make to advance an investigation -

look at the bottom bracket fittings to see if they are marked with a thread

look at the seat post (part that holds the seat) to see what the size is; its diameter should be marked in mm's

if you have access to a measuring caliper, what is the outside diameter of the three main frame tubes

images which might help the forum's frame experts -

closeup view of bottom bracket (where the cranks turn) area

closeup view of dropouts (where the rear wheel goes into the frame)

closeup view of fork ends (where the front wheel goes into the fork)

-----

signat

look at the bottom bracket fittings to see if they are marked with a thread: Could not see any indications of this, but not entirely sure what it means either.

look at the seat post (part that holds the seat) to see what the size is; its diameter should be marked in mm's: 27mm

if you have access to a measuring caliper, what is the outside diameter of the three main frame tubes: I don't

Adding right away! Thanks again

Olefeller77 

Truly sorry to hear you were deceived .Sad that times have come to that. Enjoy that bike It's a beauty.

base2 

My gut says it's not a true Cinelli. But for $250 I've seen a lot worse go for a lot more. What you have looks like a very nice condition vintage bike that has been recently reworked by someone who obviously spent some time on a thing they enjoyed doing. It's the pin-striping around the lugs that really is the tip-off. Masked. Freehand by brush would be smoother, sharper.

I'd leave the stickers if they are under clear coat. There is no sense damaging a finished product. If they're on top, then do whatever you like. (Put on some Cervelo stickers & tell people it's a prototype j/k Or even better, now that I think of it: waterslides with your last name so you can prove it's yours in the event of a theft or something. A thief is unlikely to steal a thing nobody's ever heard of. That also means there is no one to fence it to since there is no provenance or recognition of any kind...randomly thinking out-loud.)

I like that at this point you have a low risk palette and a blank canvas for just about anything you could dream of doing with it. Those friction shifter bosses will work with most any modern drive train and you have plenty of clearance for what ever reasonable tire width you want.
Enjoy. Ride. Repeat.

juvela

-----

frame is a high quality one which appears to be damage free so no worries there

-----

bikemig 

+ 1. This looks to be a quality bike.

juvela

-----

thank you for additional picture & information

seat post size of 27.0mm eliminates France from possible origin

leaning toward Belgium as a possible national origin at present


-----

obrentharris 

Fork may not be original to the frame. I note that the treatment of the fork ends is quite different from the ends of the chainstays and seatstays. Although juvela points out that manufacturer of fork crown and lugs is the same, so I could be wrong about this.

Nevertheless a very good quality frame and very nice for a first bike.

Stick around and keep us posted.

Brent

rocks in head 

Price varies so much by location. For my location you got a good bike for the money, if it fits and you enjoy riding it. Anything with good tires and cables seems to be listed for at least $150, and anything with high quality components is twice that.

cb400bill

Pic Assist

merziac

You did ok imo just not as advertised. Campy seatpost, Cinelli bars and stem, fairly nice frame with new finish, fits and rides ok.

juvela

-----

thank you for this observation

fits in with the poor quality frankened headset the machine is wearing - possibly its poorest quality fitting...


-----

zukahn1 

While I can't see anything that would help ID the frame set based on geometry lugs, single bottle cages and shifter bosses it is a nicer mid level early 80's frame set that looks well built these can be tough to ID because there were 100 or so builders brands in various countries that made nearly identical frames all of about the same quality good but nothing special.. With the current components and fairly good SS setup you did just OK maybe a bit better if rides really nice and and the second wheel matches and spins nice true and smooth and they both have good tires.

signat

Thank's all for the comments. This is truly a welcoming community and I've learnt a ton by just reading all your answers.

I feel a bit better than I did before I made the post. And again, I still like the bike very much and it does feel like decent quality. I'm still not sure what I'll do with the stickers, I don't know, I feel a bit uncomfortable with having them on, and I feel a bit ashamed of riding around with something that is clearly a fake. But again, really appreciate all the energy you guys have put into helping me in such a short period of time. It's cool to see Really excited to get into the game, just need to make sure that I also let my body rest a bit between the tours, especially now in the beginning!

randyjawa 

Please don't feel too bad. You did luck out and get a pretty good looking bike which did not cost an arm and a leg. That said...

I have acquired a lot of vintage bicycles, over the years, and made many many mistakes doing so. Once, a few years ago, I darn near shelled out $125.00 CND for what was represented as a Canadian built Cyclops, was really an Apollo Grand Sport, a nice enough bike but not at all comparable to a Cyclops.

This is the fake Cyclops that I almost bought (sadly, unbeknownst to me, a good friend got sucked in and bought the bike at the same yard sale). I should add that my buddy was very disappointed when I broke the unfortunate news to him (as you can see, he did have a hand in this)