Need a bike but burned by private sellers AND LBSs
#26
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So weird that FOUR bike shops were all filled with jerks and idiots, and the brand new guy (who already, in his very first post, knew to use the LBS abbreviation) is such a great guy. It couldn’t possibly be the other way around! He told us he doesn’t like confrontations.
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
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#27
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So weird that FOUR bike shops were all filled with jerks and idiots, and the brand new guy (who already, in his very first post, knew to use the LBS abbreviation) is such a great guy. It couldn’t possibly be the other way around! He told us he doesn’t like confrontations.
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
#28
Member
So weird that FOUR bike shops were all filled with jerks and idiots, and the brand new guy (who already, in his very first post, knew to use the LBS abbreviation) is such a great guy. It couldn’t possibly be the other way around! He told us he doesn’t like confrontations.
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
And I for one at least do genuinely hope that he and his son have great times on their bikes together.
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#30
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Straight up, for that age group I would have gone to the BBS (or better yet, Goodwill, yard sale, etc.) and picked something cheap. Taken it home and made sure it was assembled correctly and let (child) ride until they outgrow and rinse/repeat. I cannot see the value in getting a "good" bike for children growing like weeds. Even IN a case like that it makes perfect sense to consider a bicycle that is oversized and is a common way to get more value out of a bike you know the kid won't be able to ride soon. As a side note to that, I think we have to consider how "fit" is a term that adults made into a subject of import for riding long distances. It makes mostly ZERO sense to consider for a kid spinning back and forth from the end of the driveway.
To me, OP, you sound a lot like one of those people who just want to throw money at someone else to do what you could have done for yourself such that you can place blame. YOU bought the bike and didn't notice the crack. TBH it's hard to even imagine a situation where that could happen and the bike not show damage from the crash, lest it was that way from day one. Professionals don't work free either....
To me, OP, you sound a lot like one of those people who just want to throw money at someone else to do what you could have done for yourself such that you can place blame. YOU bought the bike and didn't notice the crack. TBH it's hard to even imagine a situation where that could happen and the bike not show damage from the crash, lest it was that way from day one. Professionals don't work free either....
#31
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Straight up, for that age group I would have gone to the BBS (or better yet, Goodwill, yard sale, etc.) and picked something cheap. Taken it home and made sure it was assembled correctly and let (child) ride until they outgrow and rinse/repeat. I cannot see the value in getting a "good" bike for children growing like weeds.
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#32
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so so essentially we (AGAIN) are debating the merits of the LBS!!! I'll check back next week when this thread reaches 100 posts!
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#33
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#34
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Learn to build a frame yourself. You can then handle all maintenance issues too.
That will keep you from having to deal with all the people you feel are incompetent as you have only yourself to blame if the bike doesn't work..
Building a modern frame isn't tough- its just attaching things with threaded bolts for 95% of the job.
That will keep you from having to deal with all the people you feel are incompetent as you have only yourself to blame if the bike doesn't work..
Building a modern frame isn't tough- its just attaching things with threaded bolts for 95% of the job.
#35
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So weird that FOUR bike shops were all filled with jerks and idiots, and the brand new guy (who already, in his very first post, knew to use the LBS abbreviation) is such a great guy. It couldn’t possibly be the other way around! He told us he doesn’t like confrontations.
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
If you have conversations with 4 different people and there's a jerk in all 4, it's likely the jerk is the OP :-)
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#36
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Guess we know why the ‘high quality’ FB market place bicycle was so cheap. Owner probably crashed it, or otherwise abused it, damaging the head tube and then decided to unload it.
caveat emptor, but I would think there would still be an implied warranty of merchantability even if it was a private sale,.
caveat emptor, but I would think there would still be an implied warranty of merchantability even if it was a private sale,.
#37
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#38
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Not quite understanding the sizing issue, I have a 9 y/o and I think (generally) 9 y/o can go to 24", no way I'd even think about 26". I just got him a 24" road bike (used from someone in my local club I ride/race with). He's average height and his 20" bike was definitely getting a bit small for him. I expect the bike to be a decent fit until he's probably 12.
I wish I had just gotten him the 650c as I'm sure it could have been adjusted to fit, and skipped the 24" phase. He had definitely outgrown the 24" bike by age 10 or so.
#39
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When I take over ownership of a bike I intend to keep, the first thing I do s remove the reflectors. The second thing is go over the entire bike.
Just this week I did a group ride where one of the riders was a 70+ year old female. After about 10 miles she got a flat tire of which she proceeded to fix with ease and no fumbling. Not to sound like a jerk but if a 70 year old lady can fix a flat on the road anyone should be able to do the same.
Last year I returned to cycling after 25 years off the bike. One of the first things I did was get a more modern edition of a bicycle repair manual. I really don't know why anyone old enough to buy a bike would not be capable of their own repairs and system checks. It's a bicycle not a fusion reactor. Think of it this way you will spend a few hours traveling to and from a store and have a loss of bike for days/weeks and spend money when the required skills are easy to acquire on your own.
OK so maybe I'm a jerk I don't care and I'm not defending any bike shop but what is the actual purpose of posting this sad story on a public internet chit chat forum? Are we trying to claim victimhood status or simply inform the reader that we are proud to have no mechanical skills what so ever? When I was 11 years old I was fixing my bikes unsupervised, buying parts with my paper route money. What was I some kind of prodigy?
Just this week I did a group ride where one of the riders was a 70+ year old female. After about 10 miles she got a flat tire of which she proceeded to fix with ease and no fumbling. Not to sound like a jerk but if a 70 year old lady can fix a flat on the road anyone should be able to do the same.
Last year I returned to cycling after 25 years off the bike. One of the first things I did was get a more modern edition of a bicycle repair manual. I really don't know why anyone old enough to buy a bike would not be capable of their own repairs and system checks. It's a bicycle not a fusion reactor. Think of it this way you will spend a few hours traveling to and from a store and have a loss of bike for days/weeks and spend money when the required skills are easy to acquire on your own.
OK so maybe I'm a jerk I don't care and I'm not defending any bike shop but what is the actual purpose of posting this sad story on a public internet chit chat forum? Are we trying to claim victimhood status or simply inform the reader that we are proud to have no mechanical skills what so ever? When I was 11 years old I was fixing my bikes unsupervised, buying parts with my paper route money. What was I some kind of prodigy?
#40
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I imagine having an actual pic of the crack would enhance this thread as it moves toward 100 posts.
Then we could argue the merits of whether it should have be caught sooner.
John
Then we could argue the merits of whether it should have be caught sooner.
John
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#41
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Get it, buddy?
Last edited by indyfabz; 06-27-20 at 01:38 PM.
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#42
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OP, since you've had time to reflect on your post and process some feedback, welcome or not, you may want to be done with this thread. You can ask a mod to lock it or maybe even delete it altogether.
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#43
Clark W. Griswold
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Obviously you're a shop owner and want to defend these guys. I get that. I'm not saying all LBSs are like this. This was simply my experience, and since I'm in the market again, I need a new option than the ones I've got.
You are right in that these cracks are difficult to see (if they are for you, then they must be for a non-pro like me). But this place did not do anything with this bike at first except polish it up and return it to me. If I pay $90 for a "full inspection and safety check" for a used child's bike, it better be a full inspection and safety check as advertised. The reflector was a side issue, but it showed me that they missed the small stuff as well as the big stuff. At least tell me it needs it and I'll buy it from you and put it on myself.
I went to these shops because I expect that these people know more than I do about kids' bikes and have an interest in sizing them, selling them, and fixing them. I don't believe in being confrontational. But if my kid is over the top tube and sitting on it, is that a "perfect fit"? That's the one he crashed into the display.
I'm hoping this was simply a run of bad luck.
You are right in that these cracks are difficult to see (if they are for you, then they must be for a non-pro like me). But this place did not do anything with this bike at first except polish it up and return it to me. If I pay $90 for a "full inspection and safety check" for a used child's bike, it better be a full inspection and safety check as advertised. The reflector was a side issue, but it showed me that they missed the small stuff as well as the big stuff. At least tell me it needs it and I'll buy it from you and put it on myself.
I went to these shops because I expect that these people know more than I do about kids' bikes and have an interest in sizing them, selling them, and fixing them. I don't believe in being confrontational. But if my kid is over the top tube and sitting on it, is that a "perfect fit"? That's the one he crashed into the display.
I'm hoping this was simply a run of bad luck.
The reflector was not missed it was not something anyone is going to care about unless someone brings it up. Many people remove reflectors and I frequently get asked to remove them by parents and adults who buy bicycles. If you really wanted one you would have asked for one and they would have been able to put it on.
In terms of fit I would love to hear from that other shop in what happened. If they truly put your kid on the wrong size they should not have done that but if a parent insists and continues insisting their isn't much you can do.
It sounds like if this is true then yes you had some bad luck
#44
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My understanding is the LBS told him the missing reflector is a safety issue.
Many judgmental people here bickering on a new member. No wonder OP is silent. There is a good chance the LBS are sucky and/or the OP misunderstood or had bad communication. No reason to be on the LBS side without seeing more detail.
Support your LBS, no matter what.
Many judgmental people here bickering on a new member. No wonder OP is silent. There is a good chance the LBS are sucky and/or the OP misunderstood or had bad communication. No reason to be on the LBS side without seeing more detail.
Support your LBS, no matter what.
#45
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#46
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I don't know if he's right, and it doesn't matter to me. I wanted one on there anyway for safety. Should I have caught that myself? Absolutely. I guess it doesn't matter that I paid for a "safety check".
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#47
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New guy here.
So last year, I wanted to find a first real bike for my 9-year-old son. Didn't want to spend a huge amount (wife set the limit - married guys know the deal). I knew it was going to be thrown around, slammed about, etc. so an expensive bike didn't make sense.
I went to the LBSs in my area because I like to buy local if I can. Almost every one was a nightmare to deal with.
The first place put my son on a bike 2 sizes too big for him with the seat too high, insisted it was perfect (against my protests), and watched him wobble around the store until he crashed into a display.
At the second LBS, the owner apparently didn't like kids and refused to let him try more than one or two bikes. And only inside, not outside. He yelled at him for trying to climb onto another bike to try.
I ended up buying a used, high quality bike from FB Marketplace for a great price. I checked it over as well as I could and didn't find a problem. So I took it to a 3rd LBS to have them go over it all and do a safety check. This LBS kept it a week, barely looked at it, and OK'd it for me to take home. Except it had no rear reflector, which is a legal requirement in this state. They missed that.
I brought it to a 4th LBS for a minor adjustment a week later. They happened to notice a large crack in the head tube that the other 3rd LBS repair guy didn't catch. It was almost invisible just looking at the bike, but if you put any pressure on it, it was plain as day from the front. I was furious. I should have found it, but the guy I paid DEFINITELY should have found it.
The 3rd LBS owner was extremely apologetic and did a great job making things right. Even got a new frame and basically put a "new" bike together for my son. And then charged me an extra $100 for the labor.
So now that I'm looking for a bike for myself this year, I don't like or trust any of the LBSs near me. I don't trust myself to find a decent used bike that hasn't been ridden off a cliff and fixed up. And no one has anything in stock anyway. What to do?
Stamp collecting is looking like a better hobby right about now...
So last year, I wanted to find a first real bike for my 9-year-old son. Didn't want to spend a huge amount (wife set the limit - married guys know the deal). I knew it was going to be thrown around, slammed about, etc. so an expensive bike didn't make sense.
I went to the LBSs in my area because I like to buy local if I can. Almost every one was a nightmare to deal with.
The first place put my son on a bike 2 sizes too big for him with the seat too high, insisted it was perfect (against my protests), and watched him wobble around the store until he crashed into a display.
At the second LBS, the owner apparently didn't like kids and refused to let him try more than one or two bikes. And only inside, not outside. He yelled at him for trying to climb onto another bike to try.
I ended up buying a used, high quality bike from FB Marketplace for a great price. I checked it over as well as I could and didn't find a problem. So I took it to a 3rd LBS to have them go over it all and do a safety check. This LBS kept it a week, barely looked at it, and OK'd it for me to take home. Except it had no rear reflector, which is a legal requirement in this state. They missed that.
I brought it to a 4th LBS for a minor adjustment a week later. They happened to notice a large crack in the head tube that the other 3rd LBS repair guy didn't catch. It was almost invisible just looking at the bike, but if you put any pressure on it, it was plain as day from the front. I was furious. I should have found it, but the guy I paid DEFINITELY should have found it.
The 3rd LBS owner was extremely apologetic and did a great job making things right. Even got a new frame and basically put a "new" bike together for my son. And then charged me an extra $100 for the labor.
So now that I'm looking for a bike for myself this year, I don't like or trust any of the LBSs near me. I don't trust myself to find a decent used bike that hasn't been ridden off a cliff and fixed up. And no one has anything in stock anyway. What to do?
Stamp collecting is looking like a better hobby right about now...
I can't imagine having to deal with LBS nonsense, especially amid covid.
Park tools has a bunch of very informative articles and videos covering maintenance and repair on their website. If you can read and follow directions, you can work on a bike.
#48
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You are right in that these cracks are difficult to see (if they are for you, then they must be for a non-pro like me). But this place did not do anything with this bike at first except polish it up and return it to me. If I pay $90 for a "full inspection and safety check" for a used child's bike, it better be a full inspection and safety check as advertised. The reflector was a side issue, but it showed me that they missed the small stuff as well as the big stuff. At least tell me it needs it and I'll buy it from you and put it on myself.
As to a reflector, also never added one to a bike unless asked, just one of those things practically no one cares about. I'd bet the bike may have even been missing one or two on the pedals and still is. Right now my kids (5,7 and 9) have a number of bikes; I know the 7yo recently smashed his front reflector on a tree, I won't be replacing it, they've lost pedal reflectors on several of their bikes and those will stay lost. between the 3 kids they have 11 bikes; 3 of those can't have reflectors for competition reasons, 2 could but who puts reflectors on road racing bikes, and the other 6 I really don't know what reflectors are missing and it just isn't worth worrying about. During the day reflectors really don't do much and in the evening I'll put lights on them so they can actually be seen. Its an easy thing to get uptight over but honestly I'm now picking up hours at a shop to help them through the current rush which makes them the 5th shop I've worked at and putting reflectors on repairs has never been a thing.
I went to these shops because I expect that these people know more than I do about kids' bikes and have an interest in sizing them, selling them, and fixing them. I don't believe in being confrontational. But if my kid is over the top tube and sitting on it, is that a "perfect fit"? That's the one he crashed into the display.
I'm hoping this was simply a run of bad luck.
I'm hoping this was simply a run of bad luck.
While I would never go back to a shop that doesn't treat a kid as a real customer it does sound like the 3rd shop tried to work with you and were apologetic, from what you say I'd have no problem working with them.
What the law says really only matters for new bikes in which case its federal standards that treat every single bike made as a toy. Yes, even a 10k trek comes from the factory with cheap reflectors and the bike has to be sold with them as it could be used by a kid as a toy. NYS has similar laws and I've never met anyone who ever cared about the fact, unless asked no shop will install a reflector unless asked for. Most shops also don't have a stock of reflectors, they'll have a few but since they only show up on new bikes which they have to be installed on the only extras generated come from higher end bikes that the owners ask to have them removed from. A shop attempting to replace every busted reflector would run out in record time and customers wouldn't want to find replacements turning up in their bill.
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#49
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Thanks to all who have given constructive advice. I definitely appreciate it.
I admit I missed the head tube crack and that's my bad. I also admit that I'm not the professional. But having worked with aluminum trusses that hold lighting and audio rigging, I know aluminum is prone to all sorts of stress fractures and cracks. I don't expect a bike frame to be x-rayed as our trusses have to be on occasion, but splits and cracks can be a big compromise in structural integrity. I guess that's why I'm surprised to hear that it's "not a thing" in an inspection of a used aluminum bike. I'd rather know about it than not, even if it costs me. But now I know.
As I mentioned in the OP, the owner of the shop that did the inspection was "extremely apologetic and did a great job making things right. Even got a new frame and basically put a "new" bike together for my son. And then charged me an extra $100 for the labor." I only went in looking for a refund on the inspection charge. I'd eat the cost of the bike if it was unusable. This new frame was more than I expected. The extra labor charge came at the end as a surprise, but I'm not sure if that's usual or not in this type of situation. I didn't argue.
So yes, he did go beyond what was necessary, and I appreciated that. He was the only one who at least made an effort to do the right thing. Would I go back there to buy the new bike I'm looking for for me? I'm not sure. I wouldn't trust his techs to do the setup. I'd do it myself. I built my own 10-speed when I was 13, decades ago. I can certainly set up my own bike. For my son, I wanted a PROFESSIONAL to inspect it, especially if it's used. Not too hard to figure out why.
I can't post the photos because if that LBS is on here, I'd be calling them out publicly. That's not necessary nor do I want to publicly shame them. We came to a successful arrangement.
In any case, I just wanted to know some alternatives for finding my own bike outside of these places I experienced. But it seems some people here believe that every LBS is always right, or that I owe them my money no matter what. No, NOT ALL LBSs ARE BAD -- there are some great ones with knowledgeable people. I hope to find one someday.
I admit I missed the head tube crack and that's my bad. I also admit that I'm not the professional. But having worked with aluminum trusses that hold lighting and audio rigging, I know aluminum is prone to all sorts of stress fractures and cracks. I don't expect a bike frame to be x-rayed as our trusses have to be on occasion, but splits and cracks can be a big compromise in structural integrity. I guess that's why I'm surprised to hear that it's "not a thing" in an inspection of a used aluminum bike. I'd rather know about it than not, even if it costs me. But now I know.
As I mentioned in the OP, the owner of the shop that did the inspection was "extremely apologetic and did a great job making things right. Even got a new frame and basically put a "new" bike together for my son. And then charged me an extra $100 for the labor." I only went in looking for a refund on the inspection charge. I'd eat the cost of the bike if it was unusable. This new frame was more than I expected. The extra labor charge came at the end as a surprise, but I'm not sure if that's usual or not in this type of situation. I didn't argue.
So yes, he did go beyond what was necessary, and I appreciated that. He was the only one who at least made an effort to do the right thing. Would I go back there to buy the new bike I'm looking for for me? I'm not sure. I wouldn't trust his techs to do the setup. I'd do it myself. I built my own 10-speed when I was 13, decades ago. I can certainly set up my own bike. For my son, I wanted a PROFESSIONAL to inspect it, especially if it's used. Not too hard to figure out why.
I can't post the photos because if that LBS is on here, I'd be calling them out publicly. That's not necessary nor do I want to publicly shame them. We came to a successful arrangement.
In any case, I just wanted to know some alternatives for finding my own bike outside of these places I experienced. But it seems some people here believe that every LBS is always right, or that I owe them my money no matter what. No, NOT ALL LBSs ARE BAD -- there are some great ones with knowledgeable people. I hope to find one someday.
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#50
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So weird that FOUR bike shops were all filled with jerks and idiots, and the brand new guy (who already, in his very first post, knew to use the LBS abbreviation) is such a great guy. It couldn’t possibly be the other way around! He told us he doesn’t like confrontations.
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
I hope he ends up finding a great bike for his kid and they have a ton of fun riding together.
Cheers!
It sucks he had a bad experience but he created an account and posted on a bike forum just to bash his LBS.
Ofc he is going to get critiqued and as well he should.
Choose any retail industry in the world and you can debate all day long the pros and cons.
Was OP naive enough to believe that LBS were magically exempt from the vagaries of retail and business in general?
If I go out to eat 4x one month and get a few over cooked steaks should I go to a food forum and ask if every restaurant in the country regularly over cooks steaks?