Petros98223

livedarklions

Never fails-any nutrition thread will draw in the keto garbage. Glad this stupid fad is finally fading.

DrIsotope

A ketogenic approach has proven to be very effective at getting weight off of people that are morbidly obese-- like 500lbs. For folks of a more... typical size, not so much.

willibrord

You wish. Keto is just getting started.

guachi

It's not the exercise, it's the eating. The people in the study ate all of their exercise calories back.

The only weight loss I've had in the last 25 years has come from exercise. I just didn't eat all of my extra calories I burned in exercise.

Petros98223

yes, but it is not just calories in vs. calories out, it is more complicated than that. If you actually read the details of the study, most would "reward" themselves with a small snack, but overall it was only adding a small amount of calories to their daily routine, and the exerciser was far more calories expended, but they still did not lose weight. they should have lost weight, just more slowly. Yet, they did not.

I know the temptation, when eating "good", I think: I have eaten good all day, a "little" cheat will not hurt much. I reward myself with something extra for my good efforts. The point is, exercise alone rarely results in weight loss, and you will gain it right back after you stop for more than a day or two.

Petros98223

Why do you think it is garbage? I am genuinely curious why you are so aggressively negative about it. Why are you being such a crumuggn?

FYI, it is not a fad, it has been around since the 1920's. It has had a popular revival since about 1977, 40 years is not exactly a fad. I do know it does not always work for some people because of metabolic complications, it would have to be modified. It can also be difficult to maintain, even small "cheats" results in bad results. But for most I know personally that have tried it properly, it has worked well.

I have found that many who criticize it usual will miss-characterize it, and almost always in the popular press, it is badly miss-characterized. It is, and has never been an "eat all you want" diet, you do that, you will gain weight. It is not a carnivore (all meat) diet, you must eat a lot of vegetables along with protein, and there are some vegan variations of it that some follow. There are lots of variations, all stress healthy natural foods, with the only thing they have in common is low carbohydrate, particularly all forms of sugar and starches. Or did you have an idea that a diet high in sugar is somehow healthy?

livedarklions

So two people who just advised a sixteen year old who is very active, basically in good shape who wants to lose a little belly fat that he should adopt a diet that is 80% fat and 20% protein, can't figure out why telling someone to swat a fly with a howitzer might be problematic? Seriously, what could possibly go wrong? Those "metabolic complications" you mention have put some people in the hospital. One of you essentially said that physical activity is basically irrelevant.

Variations of this have been around since the 19th century, yet there is no data showing it's an effective long-term strategy. It works for a very few people. For most people, they either fail on it quickly, or fail on it after a few months. A lot of those actually end up doing worse. The few for who it works seem to develop an unfortunate side effect of endless proselytizing.

If we want to argue personal anecdotes, I have lost and kept off for years about 140 pounds, controlling but not eliminating carbs, and a fair amount of that is through very large amounts of exercise. I'm not losing weight now, but I don't really need to. I surpassed my goals a couple years ago.

And yes, I am old enough to remember the Adkins fad. This hasn't been in popular revival since 1977, that fad had a crash ending.

OBoile

He's probably upset because he doesn't like you spreading false information. The idea that the Keto diet is necessary, or even superior to other diets for losing weight, simply isn't true. It creates weight loss through a caloric deficit just like any other diet. Furthermore, if you're an endurance athlete who intends to go at high intensities, it's a terrible choice with respect to your performance. As for long term health, no one really knows since there are very, very few people who have done this consistently for several decades. But, it does contradict many of the core beliefs of nutrition theory.

So in summary:
Cool.
Not cool.

indyfabz

How did I lose 90 lbs. not doing keto if it's the only think that works?

livedarklions

Obviously, our fat cells didn't get the memo.

gregf83 

It only demonstrates that exercise is not a magic bullet that will transform an obese individual to a fit, healthy one in 4 wks.

What the study found was that with a very moderate amount of exercise (1760 Cals/wk) 75% of the individuals lost weight. On average they lost over 3lbs in 24 wks using exercise alone (they also increased their food intake). It's not rapid weight loss but most people don't put weight on quickly either. The point is if you can incorporate regular exercise into your lifestyle weight becomes much less of an issue. With obese individuals the amount of exercise they can manage will go up over time as they become more fit and drop weight.

I'm 59 and manage to average about 6000 Cals/wk of exercise during the year, so fairly certain a teenager could easily manage 5000+ Cals/wk of exercise. Yes, they may need to increase food intake but should be fairly easy to drop some excess fat. None of this works, of course, if you can't find some exercise that you enjoy doing on a regular basis.

No need for fancy diets. Exercise regularly and eat a balanced diet with lots of fruit and veggies.

Petros98223

I do not recall saying it was the superior, nor the only way. it has been the only one that has work for me long term. It may not work for everyone. And that does not explain being rude.

Out of date nutrition theory has, like most of science, has proven to be inaccurate. but old ideas do not go away very fast. There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, but there are such things as essential fatty acids and amino acids (proteins).

FYI before a major endurance event I will have a carb heavy breakfast, but than I will be losing weight anyway. I have likely burned over 10,000 calories in a day on 15 hour endurance events, you really can not eat enough to fuel that kind of effort during an event.

Petros98223

I never said it was the only thing that works. it was the only thing that worked for me long term. I have lost lots of weight on previous meal plans, all worked short term. within a year it all came back, except on a low carb/high protein keto type diet.

your experience might be different, I know it does not work for everyone.

Petros98223

that is NOT a typical ketogenic diet. that would likely fail. there are variations all over, most advise 40 percent protein/60 percent healthy fats. I can not lose weight with that much fat, I am closer to 50/50 or even less. the whole point is to keep your body in ketosis, the process of burning fatty keytons rather than carbs. it is not anecdotal, there have been many large, back to back studies that compared keto to other type of calorie restricted diets. One I recall tested four different diets, conventional calorie restricted, a standard control diet based on RDAs, and two variations of ketogenic (one moderate fat, the other high fat). all lost weight excpet the control, the moderate fat keto lost the most, the high fat keto was second, and had the best overall health outcome. participants reported less hunger. the study was only about 45 days, but demonstrated it was effective.

It may not work for everyone, never said it was the only way, but it was the only one that worked for me long term. I think anyone that wants to loose weight should consider it or at least investigate it, along with other diets.

And study after study has shown that exercise alone is not a good way to loose weight. It can be done, if you have the disapline, but if that were true you likely would not be overweight to start out. It does seem to help, along with a good diet, but by itself it has shown to be of limited use to loose weight.

you really should learn more about something you so rudely and viciously attacked. I have posted links to studies and useful information from authoritative souces, and I can give you more. You have offered NOTHING to support your claims, but rude behavior. Where is your proof that it does not work for most people?

guachi

If they burned more calories than they consumed then (barring water retention) they would lose weight. It's not scientifically possible for any other outcome to occur. If they neither gained nor lost weight then calories in equaled calories out.

livedarklions

See above in this endless thread. Part of the reason I am annoyed with you is that you obviously had not read this thread when you posted. This was at least the second go-round on this topic, and links had already been exchanged
so here's yet another link:
https://www.cfp.ca/content/cfp/64/12/906.full.pdf

And I hate to break it to you, but if you're taking in 50 percent protein, there's no way you are staying in ketosis. Some of your protein is being burned as carbs. You're just low carb in intake.

Post what you want, but at this point, I'm out. You clearly don't know what an actual keto diet is, and expect us to believe it's whatever low carb diet you say it is.

Petros98223

You are correct, but I did not mean 50 percent of total calories, but as a ratio of fat to protein in calories. I was trying to be brief. it is a complex subject and the combination of foods has to be tailored to the individual.

Many studies have proven that there is NO SUCH THING as an ideal diet for humans. it has to be tailored to the individual.

This has gone on far too long. I just made a few brief statements about exercise vs. losing weight in one post. And suddenly many of you become experts and want to argue unrelated issues that I did not even bring up!! Must be diet derangement syndrome. Get some help.

Give it a rest!

livedarklions

I just checked back to your op That is definitely not what you did. You were very specific in what op shouldn't eat, emphasized the keto diet, and linked to a commercial site in such a way that you appeared to be shilling for it. Doing this, you ignored several previous postings on the same subject as well as op's own description of his own situation. I'm amazed you don't realize how rude and inappropriate your behavior has been.

next time try actually reading the thread before you post.

Marci

Well didn't help me lose weight, but it did lower my cholesterol. I can't take Statins as they make my liver unhappy. But it went from mega high to borderline in a year. About the only thing I changed was the cider vinegar.

livedarklions

No idea if the vinegar has anything to do with that, but glad it came down.

For me, I find that activity level has more to do with my cholesterol levels than anything I consume.

mickeyaaaa

Keto works for weight loss in some cases, but greatly increases your risk of cardovascular disease, diabetes, stroke, and increases inflammation. Turns your body's ph balance more acidic - very bad for long term health. Want to live longer and be healthier? check out nutritionfacts dot org

do you want to look good on the outside and be a medical mess on the inside?

HarryCharlie

yes it's right..

livedarklions

Nuh-uh!

burnthesheep

Too many people "dabble" in things for fitness. You have to get consistent enough at something so you can get strong enough at it that you can burn more in a given time period.

At lunch today, in an hour, I burned 900kj. Since I've worked long enough at bike training, that was mostly fat burn. Got off the bike and was completely satiated by a salad with grilled chicken and bit of croutons. Didn't even feel super hungry.

People who dabble and do stupid "50 pounds on the leg curl machine while checking Facebook" at the gym won't burn ****.

Fitness involves at least a mild bit of discomfort.

I don't think people realize how few calories they burn in 30min or in an hour for some of their "workouts" and "walks" and such.

Eating, yeah. It's obvious you just consumed a carton of ice cream with 2500 calories. It says so. But people without a fancy fitness tracker like a meter or HRM might think they're doing a LOT more than they are.

I still advocate for fitness hobbies, so you can progress to a point that you're really burning some energy.