RiddleOfSteel

So it appears RiddleOfSteel has left the (Stock Frame Size) building. Faced with the aftermath of a bike fit that, in short, gave his poor aesthetic ethos but two (two!) choices going forward: 1) giraffe neck stem setups or... 2) bigger frames, he has chosen the latter. Much internal turmoil as to the fate of his beloved 63.5 and 64cm frames continues. Thankfully, a buy back of a former Land Shark frameset has steadied some of those waters.

Enter in a bike friend stumbling across this lovely bit of Davidson construction. He was looking for carbon forks of all things. The one day I don't casually search for 66-68cm frames is the day he fishes this out of the water. Time to think. I went out of town for the weekend (as planned a few weeks prior) to see family and paint a large tool shed in 98° heat. I sent a message to the seller on Saturday and said I'd be back in town the following Tuesday. He had a few interested parties, but would keep in touch if it was still available or if it sold.

I got into town that Tuesday and made immediate arrangements to meet. He was a kind older gentleman and we enjoyed good conversation both before and after the test ride. I certainly enjoyed my time, and the bike, for not being ridden for ten years, was in great shape. Looking through documents, I believe he was the original owner. His price was more than fair and I purchased it for asking price. It was a great transaction, and I believe he was happy to see it go to me.

The bike pictured below is how I test rode it. Saddle was a bit too tall (seat post didn't want to go any lower), and the bar/stem setup was super laid out. A carbon fork had replaced the original fork for who knows how long, but he did have the original fork (a deal-breaker for me if he didn't). So here I go, seeing if I can fall in love with the real big framed bikes like I had done so for the 64cm ones. If not, it's easy enough to sell it for what I bought it for and just be a one-gal guy with my Land Shark (which I'd be totally fine doing).

This thread is mostly "for the record" for bike people in the future. It's also a bit for my own journey in learning the character of the bike and what I end up doing with it. I'll post the original build sheet (!!!) as well as some geometry comparisons via CAD to show all of you (who are interested...) what happens when you bump up 3cm in frame height in terms of top tube length, reach, and saddle/cockpit setups. Pretty fun, at least for me.

Some critical stats:

Seat Tube CTT: 67.0cm
Top Tube CTC: 60.0cm
Head Tube Angle: 74.0°
Seat Tube Angle: 72.5°
Chain Stay Length: 410mm
Head Tube Length:
Seat Post Diameter: 26.8mm (NOt expecting that!)
Frame Type: Road/Race
Brake Reach: Short!

As-bought componentry: 9-speed Campagnolo Chorus (shifters, brake calipers) + Racing T (crankset, FD, RD) + Athena BB. Chorus hubs to Mavic Open Pro wheels (32h). And you saw that right--a 140mm stem and 8 buzillion 5mm spacers courtesy of the LBS (I forget whom he mentioned) that swapped in the very nice carbon steerer.

RiddleOfSteel

Decals are in great shape.





The Chorus shifters work great. Not so hot on the blue bar tape. That went immediately...



This fork is incredibly light. All carbon, and just 340g! With a 348mm steerer! I appreciate how the carbon nearly matches the grey paint, but...we're here to keep it all steel and all original with the fork.



In my limited Campagnolo hub experience, I have never seen ones with engraved names in them. Likely a defining trait of the 9-speed era (in part or whole).



Crankset, like all the other components, is in great shape, only needing some light cleaning. What a relief!



Ah, the original fork! Impulse-style crown with lugged dropouts. A lugged crown would have been even cooler, but I'm not here to complain. It's in great shape, and it came with the bike, so it's going in!

RiddleOfSteel

This is the original build sheet! I have Photoshopped identifying information out, leaving only the year date and of course everything else in. Gold-status provenance IMO, as well as a great deal of wonderful information of how Davidson did things back then. I find it helpful for when I make future bicycles in CAD (for fun).

The "BIG DEAL" here is the three brands of tubing used in its construction. I had heard that Davidson mixed and matched tubesets, but I had always assumed it was within a single company's offering (like Tange's Prestige). Well, perhaps I had heard correctly, but hadn't considered anything more. Top tube and down tube are unspecified, at least on this page.



The day after buying the bike, I took it to Recycled Cycles to have the 1" threadless headset top and bottom cups popped out. I had done all the prep work beforehand, and they were able to do it right at the end of the day. Took them less than a minute, and I paid them for their help (of course!). The threadless stem has a 1"-to-1.125" shim, and is gently tightened against the threads of threaded 1" fork. This was done as I ran out of time to uninstall the shifters, which were still hooked up (and tuned) to their derailleurs.

Note the "33mm" (30mm actual height) Soma Supple Vitesse EX tires stuffed into the frame. Their size looks great and helps the proportion. Unfortunately, they only had 0.5mm clearance @ 20 PSI, so they were a fun temporary solution. This is a race bike, not a sport tourer.



An FSA Duron X headset went into the frame without much fuss. The fork's crown race diameter is 26.4mm, FYI.



I removed those paint protectors as they didn't look good. Gotta keep it sleek looking!

RiddleOfSteel

With the bike weighing in at 21.9 lbs with the carbon fork, anything I did was going to add weight. No matter, I was here to get it setup the way that fits me. A Brooks B17 saddle, different seat post, matching tires, Specialized quill stem, 42cm Nitto Noodles, re-tensioned front spokes, and my eternal perforated black leatherette bar tape. No deep clean and wax yet, just get it rolling.

This is a very calm, cool, and collected bike. Front end is stable and comfortable, rear tracks predictably. It is not lithe like my Land Shark nor an acceleration tour de force like my Impulse. It is not "strong" like my P15 Paramount. It is however supremely competent, and seemingly made to ride all day every day, for thousands of miles, in comfort while maintaining good response. Largely neutral. At least with the current components on it. A classic, lovely looker, too. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. So it's now my personal mission to sort out if that is the true character of the bike, or if there is some other traits I haven't discovered. Either is fine with me--I want to know its true self and build it in such a way so as to maximize it. My Impulse was that way upon my initial build. Tires nearly had me selling it. You know that history--it became a star. Will that happen with this Signature? Who knows! I am eager to find out.

For now, as set up. For non-crazy people, this is a perfectly wonderful setup. You will never regret riding the bike in this configuration. Especially with a 45mm saddle-to-hood drop instead of a too-much 76mm drop like on my Impulse post-fit analysis.

Wildwood 

those early True Temper forks had some issues.
Glad you are going back to original fork.

I had+have 9sp Chorus with RacingT rd.
Love it.
Mine should be re-built soon.

RiddleOfSteel

This fork looked nearly pristine, thankfully. I'm happy to be back with original steel as well, for looks, original equipment, and steel "purity" (lol). I've now fully disassembled the bike so that I could clean and wax the frameset. It was already plenty fine before, but now it looks stunning. There is some touch-up here and there, but for a 32 year old frameset, it's in excellent condition. Love it!

merziac

Fantastic!

Great score, find, et all, way to go.

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks! It's getting fitted with Superbe Pro from my now-too-small Allez SE. The dark anodized rims with the tan wall Veloflex Master tires, plus the lustrous silver components are a devastating combination.

plonz 

That bike should come with its own oxygen mask.

IMO, the “before” build exaggerated the bike’s gigantic appearance. Forks and stem made a huge difference. Well done!

Narhay

So pretty. I think the stem and brake levers/shifter blades are my favourite part.

zacster

Nice! I have my own Davidson, but in a more standard size. My paint is a metallic slate color, not quite black.

Davidson Side by zacfi2000, on Flickr

Spaghetti Legs 

That’s a good score. I remember seeing that one in the eBay thread. I’m glad it found a good home.

3alarmer 

.
...Davidson made some nice bikes. I have a couple that showed up here, but a little earlier than that one, I think. Good deal that whoever it is kept the original fork. It took me over a year to come up with a suitable fork for a Smolenski custom frame I bought here that had been carbon forked by some guy who tossed the original. I don't try to do those any more.

squirtdad

gorgeous

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you, all! @plonz the former owner did like a longer stem and bar set up, and I was glad to "adjust" it. I think that the 72.5° seat tube angle can adversely affect the "giant-ness" of a very large frame like this. Top tube length also becomes tricky to manage as the main triangle can look quite square-ish. Since my saddle setback for all my bikes is moderate, the slack seat tube angle is annoying to deal with as finding a good looking seat post / saddle position (on the rails). I may have to go to a zero setback seat post, but the 26.8mm diameter limits my options a bit.

I should mention that when I had the bike all apart, I measured the individual frameset components:

Frame: 2293g / 5.04 lb
Fork: 734g / 1.61 lb
Headset: 93g / 0.20 lb

Total Frameset Weight: 3120g / 6.86 lb

Considering that, to me, a very light traditional 63.5-64.0cm lugged road frameset is 3000g on the nose (Schwinn Prologue), this is quite light! It is only bested by my bonkers Land Shark, whose frameset weighs just 2875g. Frameset weights are always, to me, a fun data point to note. With the Brooks B17 and Chorus components, it weighed 23.7 lb, which is also very respectable for its size. I won't be doing any weight weenie build with this, just keeping things modest. Maybe I can trim it to 23 lbs with my Superbe Pro build, or maybe not. We shall see.

plonz 

Don't know how a Signature compares to an Impulse but figured it would be fun to see how the weight varies from my 57cm c-t-c Impulse:

Frame: 1930g / 4.25 lb
Fork: 580g / 1.31 lb

zacster

Mine is neither Signature nor Impulse and was built before Bill Davidson opened up the shop in Elliot Bay. It was custom built for me and the story is he painted it himself as his painter was out on vacation, and Charles Hadrann from Wright Bros cycles where I'd ordered it asked him to get it out because I was waiting.

And here's another story, this one completely true. Charles was having a Passover Seder in his apartment over the shop and invited me, knowing I was alone in Seattle having recently moved there. We sit down to the table, done up in hippy Jewish style, and he turns to me to lead the seder! He thought that since I was Jewish from New York I'd know the ritual, but I didn't know any more than he did. He's still there I think, and Davidson was also nearby in Fremont, but maybe not anymore as I haven't checked in a few years and I haven't lived there for 33 years.

Drillium Dude 

Charles is still at the helm at Wright Bros. in Fremont and doing very well even in these strange days. Davidson operated out of Elliot Bay Bicycles in downtown Seattle (Western Ave and Lenora St.). EBB closed that location a few years ago; Bill moved to a smaller shop in Fremont and is still building today with Ti and carbon now his go-to building materials.

DD

zacster

I visited Wright Bros in 2010 (I always know the date because I was at Safeco about 3 days before Ken Griffey retired and he got a big cheer when he came up to pinch hit) when I did a solo trip to Seattle for 5 days to relive my days there. I didn't recognize Charles because he had a big beard when I originally lived there in the 80s and I never actually saw his face. Elliott Bay was still open and I stopped there too and Branford Bikes. My purpose of the trip was to just ride in the Seattle area during the day and do whatever in the evening and just see how much it had changed since the 80s. It changed a lot. I should have brought my Davidson with me, but I brought my Kuota instead. When I still lived there even, I brought my Davidson into Elliott Bay and Bill gave it a puzzling look as it was different than any of his others, either old or new. It had the yellow name logo but none of the other changes he had made over time. It may have been the first with the yellow lettering. It also has an orange D head badge.

I've only seen two other Davidsons since I moved back to Brooklyn here, one in a shop and another while riding in Prospect Park. The second one didn't have the downtube logo but the signature caught my eye. They guy riding it had no idea what it was, it was just a bike he picked up.

RiddleOfSteel

Quick note: the Superbe Pro build is complete. I'm just trying to finish up a couple of 'work' things before heading out for a test ride and photo shoot (aka with my iPhone). I will say that it looks stellar!

79pmooney

Memories. I got to see Ken Griffey make the routine catch that has been replayed a thousand times - at the Randy Johnson pitched game against the Yankees; playoffs '95. I was sitting behind the fence when a Yankee hit a completely ordinary fly ball to left center. Griffey paid zero attention to it and just trotted for the third base dugout. Inning over. (Is anyone going to catch that ball?) Ball lands in Griffey's glove at his waist without him either breaking stride or looking. OMG! Never got to see him make a big-time catch live. But I've been in awe of his prowess as a fielder since then.

And what a class act. If you ever wanted to show your kid a pro athlete to emulate as a first class citizen of our world...

zacster

I went to that game on a whim, and bought a single ticket at the box office right before the game, 6th row behind the 1st base dugout and they charged me $20 I think. That pic was taken from there. They were playing the Blue Jays as I remember taking the hotel shuttle with a bunch of Canadians that came down from Vancouver to see their national team. For the longest time the ticket stub was on my fridge at home, just because I stuck it up there and nothing ever came down once it was up. 10 years later we remodeled our kitchen and I don't know what happened to it, everything else from the old fridge is in a box but not the stub.

I had picked late May to go to Seattle as I thought the rain would have stopped, I was wrong, it rained every day at some point. I rode out to Marymoor on a beautiful sunny morning, and got stuck in a hard rain riding all the way back via Microsoftland, and the trail that took you there ended abruptly somewhere north of Bellevue. I used to have a route through Bellevue when I lived there and there was no trail, but I didn't really remember it. It was a light rain as I went past Microsoft but it started raining pretty hard at that point. I made it to I90 and ducked under it for a while to get out of the rain but then figured it wasn't going to stop so I rode across the bridge and across Mercer Island in an absolute downpour. And since it had been over 20 years since I'd last done that, everything had changed and I had to follow signs. As I'm crossing the floating bridge it started to lighten and stopped by the time I got back into town. I just remember that morning while going around Gas Works Park seeing a couple riding their matching Davidsons. I guess the 520 bridge has a bike lane now? And that trail connects? I have to go back and do this again. I was in my 20s when I lived there and had a good time, but I'm 65 now and those few bars that are still around still have the younger crowd. The Comet was a regular hangout for me back in the day...

A day or two later on bike to work day I go out to Ballard for the "festival" not much of one really, and on the way back there was a big thunderstorm. I ducked into PCC in Fremont and just waited there. I guess in Seattle nobody stops for the rain since you'd never get anywhere if you did. Everybody else was riding like nothing was happening.

SurferRosa

It does, but it sucks. Not as smooth as I-90. There's awful speed bumps all along it. Not sure about the bridge part, but the last time I was over there on the east side, the 520 trail was closed. The sign said through early next year. They are building the first floating train bridge in the world for the light rail.

Check out the bicycle layer of google maps.

I don't ride in the rain. Except for maybe Dec/Jan, there are plenty of dry days. However, living car-free might have me out on my grocery getter when it's a bit wet on a winter day...

It's finally raining here this morning for the first time in a month and a half. My garden is rejoicing.

RiddleOfSteel

Well it's raining today, which means its a perfect day to upload some photos after riding around last night. Since iPhones, indirect lighting, and bicycles still don't go together the best, I have good close-up shots and a some not-so-great whole-bike shots (finding a place in the neighborhood to shoot, that wasn't the last/first place I did with this bike, is difficult. Maybe I should just return there in the middle of the day to get you all better photos!).

The bike still has a inside-the-top-tube brake cable rattle, which drove me mildly crazy as the bike was otherwise silent, of course. For those of you who have had this issue, what would you suggest to try? I was thinking of seeing if my LBS had some thin cable sheathing that could fill the gap in the tube without adding friction. I've done a little reading and there's not a ton out there. My Impulse, which runs its rear cable the same way, is silent.

For a bike with a traditional racer's drop bar set up (Cinelli Criterium), the saddle-to-brake-hood drop ended up around 65-70mm, which is about as good as it gets while still keeping a discernible 'rake' (gesture) along the top of the bike. Saddle-to-handlebar is 20mm or so better (45-50), which on a long ride is where I'd be. Ideally the stem needs to be about 5mm longer for "hitting my measurements" sake, but is within spec'd range for me, so it's staying for now.

I ported over the Superbe Pro from my Allez SE, with the gorgeous Specialized flag crankset coming with as well. In order to get the crank arms off, I had to drill holes into the aluminum dust caps for a pin spanner. The left crank's dust cap was amenable to this solution. The right was not. No WD-40 or might would work. Only careful destruction would, unfortunately. So I took the bike outside and proceeded to have a monumental battle over two+ hours cutting, drilling, and chiseling the dust cap off. I barely marred the crank removal threads, though the crankset gained a couple marks. :/ In the end I got it off. The original Specialized BB spindle measures just 107mm, is of an ISO-ish taper, and gives a 72.6/71.1mm R/L Q-factor (143.7mm total) as well as a 43.8mm chain line. A new 107.8mm (cartridge) BB of unknown type (I had it lying around) was installed into the Davidson and bumped the cranks out 2mm per side, which I needed for my left leg's Q-factor.

Oh, and the Specialized crankset weighs just 624g @ 175mm length with a 144 BCD and 52/42T rings. This makes it about 20g lighter than a 7400 Dura-Ace crankset of the same era.

Ok, RIDE. The stability remains as before (the Campy setup) as does general comfort, even with the slightly lower hood elevation. The TB14/Veloflex Master tires set this bike off like no other and remain the rock-solid on-rails wheelset they've been in the past. Still not the jumpiest set of wheels for out-of-saddle antics (they do alright), but for everything else, they are great friends to have. The Superbe Pro shifts and holds gear every bit as well as any indexed system should, while looking better than pretty much everyone while doing it. The lustrous anodizing and dark grey frame are a visual treat to behold. Single pivot caliper braking is as casual as it ever is but give the levers a good squeeze and you'll stop well enough.

Part of me wants to rotate the bars way up (to level with the stem) to test my theory of brake hoods being that height (vs an inch lower) aiding the willingness to rock back and forth when out of the saddle. Some frames are more willing to do this, and wheels and tires (individually) can aid or hinder this. Bar/brake hood height can also aid or restrict this. Every bike and setup is different, and the previous Campy setup (Noodle bars, higher elevation, Open Pro wheels, Vittoria tires) was better in this regard as I believe the bars/hoods being higher helped in leverage. Ditching the heavy Brooks saddle would have likely helped that even more (less pendulum mass to sway).

The other, louder part of me says "Put the wrench down and just ride it." The bike is absolutely gorgeous, and with the saddle down another 3mm or so post-photo "shoot," my legs are happy, and it's time to just put miles on this beauty. Miles with ease, and with style. What a great combination.

RiddleOfSteel

It was actually a little brighter here in ambient light at 6:30pm or so, but the photos came out alright without much or any altering. Anyway...

BRS300 levers sitting pretty with Criterium bars whose bend allows for a very comfortable hand position. My evergreen Fizik leather-like bar tape continues to serve faithfully, having been on and off bikes about a million times over the years.



This and 7402 brake calipers are the prettiest of the single pivot breed. Love the feel of these.



A bike fully worthy of truly NOS Superbe Pro levers. Again, the shift feel of these is sublime, and I prefer it to 7400 shifters at the very least. The micro-ratcheting of the left lever is superior to Dura-Ace in that it holds its position while being very light to use. One has to tighten Dura-Ace levers (even 9- and 10-speed ones) decently to get them to hold in big ring out-of-saddle efforts. Shape and shine of these vs 7400 levers is also superior, IMO.

Also...look at that paint!



You can see a couple of the unfortunate scars on the crankset, but for what I had to do, this was minimal damage. Best believe I put as much grease on those dust cap threads as humanly possible. Never again! Grease your dust cap threads, people!

The Superbe Pro FD here has a slightly narrow cage, which is a bit annoying. Somehow my clamp-on version was considerably more generous. I'll have to measure. Maybe I'll change to a narrower chain. Shifting is fine otherwise.



Lastly, my venerable bought-for-$20-on-eBay (for parts) Superbe Pro RD with it's Sprint 9000 anchor bolt setup trucks along very well, delivering reliable shifting over the 13-24T 7-speed FW.