eagletree

I stored a bike in my shop for the last 20 years that a friend no longer wanted. After starting to ride now and becoming obsessed with it (and observing all the vintage bikes people have on here), I pulled it down and decided to figure out what it was. It's a 1983 frame set sold as a 1984 based on color scheme, with Golden Arrow components. I got to measuring it, and it's too small for me by a shot, but it's in such good condition (other than the rack is tweaked and the front reflector mount has some rust), I decided I'd use it to get my son involved in bicycling because he is shorter.

I tried it out to see how everything worked and was shocked by how tall the gearing is. I'm a noob, but I do ride everyday, 15 to 20 miles, so I am used to what gearing would work for noobs in our hilly environment. This is far taller than my 50/34 11-28 (which I'm changing to an 11-32 this week). Were there gearing changes made for these old Golden Arrow Shimanos? Do modern parts such as the crank and rings work in this frame? Did the Golden Arrow have an actual model number other than just 105? BTW, the cassette is 6 speed.

I didn't count the teeth on the chain rings, but the sizes were about an inch larger than my 50/34. Not that I know much about it, but it appears the crank would have to be replaced because the smaller gear is exactly the size of the spider casting that it connects to, and I can't see how a smaller low range could be put on it. This shows in the photo.

ramzilla

Replace the tires right away. They're probably the original 36 year old items and, are no longer safe to ride. A new set of Paselas will roll better and make bike feel way more responsive. Sometimes these old bikes have real tall gears. You need to get the tooth count and bolt circle diameter BCD off the old crankset before you can determine what your options are with that. A smaller square taper crankset is possible. Sometimes you can get some relief with a higher sprocket count 6 speed freewheel. Sometimes you can squeeze a higher sprocket count 7 speed freewheel onto one of these too. Good luck.

Miele Man

That loos like it has the old school standard chainrings or 42 teeth and 52 teeth. I'd look for a used 34 teeth and 50 teeth crankset to replace that one with. With that rear derailleur you can't go much larger in rear cog size unless you get a derailleur hanger extender.

Cheers

eagletree

Yes, in fact, the front has a bulge where there appears to be a slash that doesn't go all the way through, but weakened the sidewall (probably from my hanging it up in the rafters all those years ago). The tires will have to go. Also needs new hoods and tape, they are hard as a rock.

I'll count the teeth tomorrow, I put it back out up in the shop today, but will run up there tomorrow.

I started to study freehub versus freewheel today but haven't gotten far yet.

Thanks for the information.

eagletree

On the derailleur, that was the problem I had with my modern 105 and had to buy a longer one.

I thought the crank would need replacement. I looked on ebay and didn't see anything, but frankly, without some sort of model numbers, I would be concerned about buying anything as of yet.

HTupolev

It's almost certainly a 52/42 crank on a 144mm bolt circle.


Mostly yes. Japanese road bikes from that era nearly always had english-threaded (also called "BSA" or "BSC", and generally interchangeable with "ISO") bottom bracket shells with a 68mm width, which even today is a very well-supported standard; you can't make everything work with it, but you can make most things work with it. And since your front derailleur mounts to the seat tube with a cylindrical clamp, it's easy to move it up or down to accommodate different-sized chainring combos.

A new crankset will usually require a new bottom bracket.


It's a freewheel, not a cassette. The cogs and the bearings and the pawls are all built into a single unit, which threads onto the hub.

Most six-speed freewheels available today are 14-28, which is probably what the bike already has. You could probably squeeze a 7-speed freewheel in there, and some of those come with big cogs as large as 34T.

If your rear derailleur has troubles with a wider gearing range, an aesthetically-pleasing solution might be to look for a 1980s-era touring or MTB rear derailleur and toss it on the bike. But, the simplest solution is to throw a cheap modern Shimano MTB/Trekking derailleur on the bike, like an Altus M310 or an Alivio or Acera model. Those offer pretty much infinite versatility with whatever-x-5/6/7/8 drivetrains, and with friction shifters there's not a lot that can go wrong.

madpogue 

That 52/42 is standard for that bike, but the catalog shows a different model. But you are correct, you can't go smaller than that 42, due to the 144mm BCD. As said, just about any double crankset will work with that front derailleur. If you find one from that era with a 110 or 130mm BCD, it will more likely be a 52/39 or 52/38, which will significantly improve the gearing. You might still need to get a rear derailleur with a longer cage, however, just because of the increased gear combination range. Shimano actually made a long-cage version of their 600 (road) RD back then, which would be a great match for this bike, if you can find one.

BTW, smart to hang onto that bike. It's supposedly the "entry" level of their sport road series, but it has double-butted CrMo tubing. Miyata made their own frame tubes in-house BITD. And I think that contrast striping on the edges of the lugs was done by hand.

eagletree

Thanks to both of you. The crank change sounds far simplest. It's refreshing (standards wise) to think I can count on any crank working. I noted that 50/34s seem to be a dime a dozen on ebay. Am I wrong to assume that even one of those 5800 and later 105 50/34s would fit? Those are offered used at about $45 and some smaller MTB singles were even less. Finding an older one in silver might be tougher but if those work, that would be quick to locate. I'll avoid changing the freewheel until I see how the crank change does.

I figured I would keep it even if I can't ride it.

madpogue 

Is there a bike co-op in your area? I'll bet you could grab an '80s or '90s vintage double crankset for $20 or less there, if so. It'd be more in the 52/39 or 52/40 range, but that might make the difference you need, and might not require a rear derailleur change.

Kuromori

It's probably worth noting that BBs labeled "ISO" usually mean "ISO" taper and not threading, and should generally not be paired with JIS taper which is the current norm.

Pompiere

I have a 310, also with a late 1983 serial number and 1984 decals. I bought it in late summer 1984. The crank on yours is the same as mine. 52-42 cranks were pretty common back then, probably because that was what all the racers were using and the 310 was marketed as an entry level race bike. The freewheel is 14-28. I live in relatively flat terrain, so the gearing doesn't bother me much. When I first got the bike, I was in the Oakland, California area, and it was tough to get up some of the hills there. I considered changing the gearing, but the bike is mostly original and still in pretty good condition, so I will leave it as is. I found a bottle of fingernail polish to match the burgundy color to touch up the paint chips. I changed the seat and stem for my own comfort, since I am not 23 any more. Tires are Pasela, 27x1 inch. I have a few other bikes, but the Miyata still gets ridden a couple hundred miles a year.


1984 Miyata 310

eagletree

Yes there is, I thought I'd check there later this morning when they open. It would seem matching the motif is the hardest challenge looking on line.

I now have an additional question. Since the most common crank/ring set that would bring the gearing down, would be the two inner gears on a triple touring set, will it work to put in one of those and have the outer ring be dummy. I think some of those were 53 42 30 and look perfect as far as the arms and color. For the low speed hill work, a 42 and 30 would be fine.

eagletree

So does this indicate that I should only look for the ISO designation?

I have a very dumb question too, what does BB stand for? I've seen it used countless times now, but not seen it used where it was spelled out.

Kuromori

Golden Arrow parts has 105 for the numerical part of the part number and had the shimano part prefix. Later 105 has the form 105X, and even later 105 had the form 5XXX, and current is R7000. RD for rear derailer etc, so RD-A105. You can find the part numbers stamped onto the backs of parts, as is typical of Shimano. It was Shimano's trickle down group for wannabe racers. As in, the marketing literature actually said it was for people who didn't race but wanted their bike to be like a racing bike. Biggest Shimano approved cog is 28T with a total wrap of 28T. If you have a actually cassette and not a freewheel, then replacing the cassette is going to be a pain because it only takes a uniglide cassette. I don't think medium cage trickled down to 105 until 8 speed or so.

Kuromori

You should in general avoid a bottom bracket (BB) marked ISO unless you know you actually need ISO. Most modern things use JIS, especially Japanese things. ISO continues to be made mostly as legacy support for Campagnolo square taper cranksets.

eagletree

Very nice. I see you have the original bike pump where as mine has only the top mount. Sad thing is, I believe I recall that it may have been on it, fell off and probably my son and his friends grabbed it when they were kids. The stock seat seems to be very comfortable on mine, maybe more so than the plush seat I purchased for my Emonda. The gearing is just not usable in my environment. This is the foothills of the Olympics and any route you take has grades. One would have to be very strong to not be grinding or even standing with this gearing.

eagletree

Thanks for that clarification. I saw the term bottom bracket used but not at the same time as BB. I'll look for examples online of the two.

Mr. 66

You can do that but you will still need to do at least a spindal swap. One could use a MTB triple and eliminate the smallest ring and just use only the larger, this would probably work with your current spindal.

eagletree

That's good information. Then A105 designates parts that were supposed to be on this. I do know about the 5800, 7000 and 8000 since doing the research on my modern bike. It seems you are confirming that crank replacement is the clean option.

This bike was owned by a woman who did amateur triathlons in Michigan (she bought it new and it still has the Ann Arbor bicycle registration sticker on it) so I presumed that was how it was used. As an entry level racer.

eagletree

That seems a very inexpensive solution. It could live with the odd looking colors while that was on it. My son wouldn't care about the appearance.

Dfrost 

Where in Washington are you? Most of us put some sort of location identifier in the User CP, which shows up under your avatar.

There’s an active bunch of C&V cyclists in the Puget Sound and Portland/Beaverton areas. Watch this forum for rides! Check out others’ locations as you follow this forum. @Mr. 66, quoted above, is one of those in Seattle, although I see that he’s not admitting it in his User CP.

If you’re near Port Angeles, I’m pretty sure there’s a source of parts (and information) in that vicinity. (Calling @Lascauxcaveman!) There’s a big bike coop in Bellingham, and several here on this forum volunteer or are frequent customers at Bike Works in Seattle (bikeworks.org) which has many used parts and bikes, as well as Open Shop times on Saturday afternoons. Recycled Cycles in Seattle still has a decent stock of used parts, but not like years past.

eagletree

Just south of Port Townsend. There is a vintage bike shop in town (the PTCyclery) and in fact, I just talked with him about what he had in cranks. He is quite the Miyata fan and wants me to bring it by. He's thinking I should look at the other bikes he has in my son's size and keep the Three-Ten whole since it's so original. He must have sixty or seventy vintage bikes in there so I'm certainly going to go check it out. I've been in many times as I have him order stuff for me, but I've always just blown by the vintage bikes and not thought about them. I must be getting the bug. There is also the ReCyclery here which has hundreds of old bikes. They provide bikes and classes in repair as cycling advocates and they would have parts too I'm sure. I've never stopped there even though it's right along one of my rides I do twice a week. I am close enough to PA.

I would love to ride with a group, though I'm concerned about slowing others down. I am a 65 YO beginner ;-). Where do people post the rides they are going to do? I didn't see anything in the Pacific Northwest forum. I was going to join Cascade Cycling Club and do their events starting this month. They have the Chilly Hilly on the 23rd on Bainbridge.

philbob57

You might have a local bike club. If it's big enough, it will have rides for riders at various skill and fitness levels. My club starts with casual rides at 10-12 mph, up to 25 miles. That is, they move at 10-12 mph when they move. They also take frequent breaks. The shop probably has the info you need.

ryansu

According to the Miyata catalog my very similar 87 Miyata 112 had 52/42 chain rings and a 14-28 cassette which is why its on my trainer right now as the gearing is too tall for my hilly neighborhood. If I was going to ride it then I would switch to a compact crank and wider gears in the back or go with a MTB triple.

eagletree

The fellow that has the bike shop here does put on a Thursday night ride, but it hasn't been happening during the winter months. He's starting soon again. In general though, there aren't enough people in this area to develop a large club. The population is extremely small and organizations tend to reflect that. I figure I will have to go to Seattle, everything is on that side of the Sound.

My bike shop trip was encouraging and instructive. He disagrees with modifying the bike because it is pristine, but he also has some cranks that would work if I want to try. He showed me examples of the different types of cranks and bearings and how mine uses loose ball bearings. It was really instructive and the argument comes down to whether it's worth modifying a completely original bike for an application that may or may not see fruition (my son is the type who sees a fat tire electric and then wants to ride ;-)). The other point he made was that our terrain (at least the trails) doesn't do a bike like the Miyata low end racing bike justice for a casual rider (i.e., they would be more happy with straight bars and wider tires).

It's a quandary, because as the last post suggests, it could be used on my trainer if I just put a high seat post on it. I hadn't considered that.

I appreciate all the ideas in this thread. It looks like I could try the swap of the crank for basically nothing and see how the bike works. If I can get my son hooked, he can buy a bike more to his liking, and I can put the original parts back on this one, slap a speed sensor on it and put it on the trainer. Then I'd have a vintage bike in the living room.

Thanks very much for all the responses.