What gearing changes should I make to my Tarmac for better climbing in Maine?
03-30-20, 11:50 AM
#51
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It would help, but I am also looking at changing the chainrings and/or the crank as well. The 36/52 is harder so in some ways it's training you to be faster than all the other people with smaller chainrings that you're riding with, but in the elevation I'm at now I won't be able to efficiently use all of the gears, and that's not smooth.
Keep us posted of any changes & results.
Last edited by eduskator; 03-30-20 at 11:55 AM.
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03-30-20, 03:27 PM
#52
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My first couple years as a cyclist, I had this map in my head of where all the hills were, and how to get around them. I thought that's what you did. Then I started riding with people who liked to bring the pain. Hated them for a couple weeks. But I was amazed how quickly it got easier, and how much more fun riding big descents was than endless flats and small rollers.
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03-30-20, 04:23 PM
#53
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Imo, just stick with your current crank and get a 11-34 cassette, a new chain and GS rear DR. Only if that is not adequate I would replace the crank. As mentioned the GRX line is suitable, but the 48/31 is a bit pricey and requires a GRX front DR as well. 48/11 is plenty for most. The GS rear DR is not an "upgrade", its has a longer cage to accommodate the bigger cassette.
03-30-20, 04:26 PM
#54
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I've noticed a similar phenomenon when I ride my fixed gear. Since I'm stuck in 44x17 I just get out of the saddle and stomp my way up rather than shift, sit, and spin.
I fully endorse the idea of going to smaller chainrings. I have a 46/30 on one of my bikes and I more or less treat it as a 1X plus granny. 98% of my time is on the big ring in the middle of the cassette.
I fully endorse the idea of going to smaller chainrings. I have a 46/30 on one of my bikes and I more or less treat it as a 1X plus granny. 98% of my time is on the big ring in the middle of the cassette.
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03-30-20, 04:27 PM
#55
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I can't believe I'm suggesting this, but didn't 105 5800 have a triple front DR version? Or was this the previous 10 speed 105's? Since I've been up and down the Maine coastline several times sailing, I know there are some pretty long climbs and maybe a triple would be a better way to adapt the current bike if there isn't room for a new bike.
Of course a triple might be more severe with noise cross chaining. Hopefully those will only be gears needed briefly. Also, the shifer will be an added cost along with other changes.
And in case I missed it, I'm still not certain the OP's bike is 11 on the rear, so I may just be prattling nonsensical stuff. Please don't tell me I always do that...... <grin>
Of course a triple might be more severe with noise cross chaining. Hopefully those will only be gears needed briefly. Also, the shifer will be an added cost along with other changes.
And in case I missed it, I'm still not certain the OP's bike is 11 on the rear, so I may just be prattling nonsensical stuff. Please don't tell me I always do that...... <grin>
03-30-20, 04:32 PM
#56
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If it’s so hilly that you can’t ride it with a 52/39 and 11/32, well, you’re unlikely to average 18-19 mph with smaller gearing unless you’re just pulling our leg. 
You’re going to spend a LOT of time on those climbs, and you said there are no flat sections... I’ve been to Maine plenty of times. It’s not the Alps, nor is it the Rockies. Sure, there are some serious grades, and they also go DOWNHILL, too. Keep your taller gearing available for using on the gravity-assisted sections. (On which you will spend far less overall time, but still need to pedal.)
Or HTFU.
You’re going to spend a LOT of time on those climbs, and you said there are no flat sections... I’ve been to Maine plenty of times. It’s not the Alps, nor is it the Rockies. Sure, there are some serious grades, and they also go DOWNHILL, too. Keep your taller gearing available for using on the gravity-assisted sections. (On which you will spend far less overall time, but still need to pedal.)Or HTFU.
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03-30-20, 04:34 PM
#57
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Sounds to me like you need a new chainset. Gearing is pretty personal, but 46/30 is good if you are riding mostly solo rides and don't need to keep up with a group. 46x11 is over 40 mph @130 rpm, which is fast enough for me. I just got an Easton EC90 with a 46/30 to replace a 50/34 on one of my bikes. EA90 is a much cheaper version of the same thing. One nice thing about the Easton crank is that it's very easy to swap rings if you decide you want different gearing.
Thanks for your help.
03-30-20, 04:35 PM
#58
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First step is to verify you can lower the front derailer as it has to be lower to work with smaller rings. Not likely to be a problem, as modern systems since about 9 spd. have been using 50/34 cranks as standard, but never hurts to check. Only older frames where a 53/39 crank and using a braze-on mount had issues.
03-30-20, 04:38 PM
#59
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GRX also comes in a 46/30, but as you stated you want speed, going from a 52 big ring to a 48 or 46 is going to have you spin out earlier. These are as BTW, the Shimano cranks. FSA also makes similar cranks. My Cannondale Topstone came with an FSA 46/30, works just fine with a 105 derailer. An FSA Omega ME is $131 https://shop.fullspeedahead.com/en/omega-crankset-4659
But really only YOU know what gearing is going to work so for know I'd pay attention to how often you fine yourself in the 52/11, ask if you need that, maybe do a gear chart to plot out the options.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html
But really only YOU know what gearing is going to work so for know I'd pay attention to how often you fine yourself in the 52/11, ask if you need that, maybe do a gear chart to plot out the options.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html
03-30-20, 04:43 PM
#60
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With a 48/11 top gear, like I have, it takes about 113 rpm to hit 38 mph, so riding in the 25-30 mph range is no problem. You should not be changing gearing to use the big ring more. Only change if your lowest gear is not low enough to get up the steepest climb. Use each ring where it's appropriate. If the 52 and next to largest sprocket is too much gear, then shift to the little ring. That transition speed will probably be about 15 mph. The big ring isn't for climbing.
I ride plenty of 10-12% grades and at my advanced age, a 34/29 was not low enough, so I first changed to the largest sprocket available, which is a 32 for Campy 11. That worked, but I wanted lower, so a year later the 12 speed Chorus 48/32 crank and 11-34 cassette was just what I needed
I ride plenty of 10-12% grades and at my advanced age, a 34/29 was not low enough, so I first changed to the largest sprocket available, which is a 32 for Campy 11. That worked, but I wanted lower, so a year later the 12 speed Chorus 48/32 crank and 11-34 cassette was just what I needed
03-30-20, 04:46 PM
#61
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Roadlink is a bit of metal that hangs the RD lower, allowing a bigger cassette to fit, for $20. The other part of the equation is taking up the slack chain on the small/small end.
Road RDs typically would have a short cage- the part with the pulley wheels, newer ones may have mid cage- longer & able to take up the chain for wider gear range, or long cage-
usually found on mtn bikes. GS means the same as mid-cage.
phrantic09 says he was slower with lower gears, & that's understandable- he might have been faster still on a single speed, as you have to turn the pedals fast enough to avoid stalling,
but it's also what you're adapted to. I've had that experience- faster up 18% grades with the 28 than 34, but the price is paid by the end of a long ride.
48/11 gets you to 35 mph at just over 100 rpm, where a good tuck will give more speed than more pedaling (assuming that one is not a monster going over 35 on the flats). 52/11 goes to 37 or 38 mph.
Plus, Eddy Merckx.
IMO, all the fuss about close ratios doesn't amount to much, as the middle & lower end of the cassettes are much the same, but I live in a hilly area, YMMV.
Road RDs typically would have a short cage- the part with the pulley wheels, newer ones may have mid cage- longer & able to take up the chain for wider gear range, or long cage-
usually found on mtn bikes. GS means the same as mid-cage.
phrantic09 says he was slower with lower gears, & that's understandable- he might have been faster still on a single speed, as you have to turn the pedals fast enough to avoid stalling,
but it's also what you're adapted to. I've had that experience- faster up 18% grades with the 28 than 34, but the price is paid by the end of a long ride.
48/11 gets you to 35 mph at just over 100 rpm, where a good tuck will give more speed than more pedaling (assuming that one is not a monster going over 35 on the flats). 52/11 goes to 37 or 38 mph.
Plus, Eddy Merckx.
IMO, all the fuss about close ratios doesn't amount to much, as the middle & lower end of the cassettes are much the same, but I live in a hilly area, YMMV.
Thanks again, I appreciate your time and input. I'm deciding on what chainrings to get but I think that is all I am looking to change at this point. If I can change to a 46/30 or 48/32 it will allow me to keep everything else the same (save $$) while still accomplishing the greater usability of my gearing.
03-30-20, 05:08 PM
#62
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Some people love wide ranging cassettes, like an 11-36. You get a lot of low end, without giving anything up on the high end.
Some people hate them. Bjumps between cogs. Which means it's a lot more likely in many situations that you won't have a gear that lets you maintain your speed at your preferred cadence. I'm in this camp, I think going fast is fun, but being forced to change my cadence can fatigue me after a while.
I'm riding a compact with a 12-28. I thought I'd never miss the 11T, surprised that occasionally I do wish I had it. But you can't have everything, and a little high end for more low end with tight spacing is a good trade off. Not that it really matters what I prefer, I'm not going to ride your bike for you.
Some people hate them. Bjumps between cogs. Which means it's a lot more likely in many situations that you won't have a gear that lets you maintain your speed at your preferred cadence. I'm in this camp, I think going fast is fun, but being forced to change my cadence can fatigue me after a while.
I'm riding a compact with a 12-28. I thought I'd never miss the 11T, surprised that occasionally I do wish I had it. But you can't have everything, and a little high end for more low end with tight spacing is a good trade off. Not that it really matters what I prefer, I'm not going to ride your bike for you.
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03-30-20, 05:18 PM
#63
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Thank you Dave, I'm definitely not capable of climbing the hills here in the big ring, but I would like to be able to use the big ring more overall as I prefer to grind a little versus just spinning. That could of course be because of my 52/36 that I've been using, but even in flat Chicago I rarely was able to use the 52/11 without a significant tailwind. I think leaving the cassette the same (for now) and changing to smaller chainrings is the way to go. I appreciate your input!
Last edited by DaveSSS; 03-30-20 at 05:22 PM.
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03-31-20, 06:41 AM
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My first couple years as a cyclist, I had this map in my head of where all the hills were, and how to get around them. I thought that's what you did. Then I started riding with people who liked to bring the pain. Hated them for a couple weeks. But I was amazed how quickly it got easier, and how much more fun riding big descents was than endless flats and small rollers.
03-31-20, 07:04 AM
#65
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I like this gear calculator a bit better than Sheldon's. It's so easy to change variables to compare the various combinations. It fills in a lot of blanks for you that you have to manually input on Sheldon's. https://www.bikecalc.com/gear_speed
Based on my observations 90% of the riders I know would be better off if stock gearing were somewhere from a 44-30 or 40-26 and 11-36. I am getting ready to build a bike, and that's what I am going to put on it. I just have to figure out how to get there with a mechanical disc set-up.
Based on my observations 90% of the riders I know would be better off if stock gearing were somewhere from a 44-30 or 40-26 and 11-36. I am getting ready to build a bike, and that's what I am going to put on it. I just have to figure out how to get there with a mechanical disc set-up.
03-31-20, 07:12 AM
#66
Jedi Master
I like the Mike Sherman calculator the best. Easier to visualize the impact of different setups. I'll sometimes open up two windows and look at them side-by-side.
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03-31-20, 04:10 PM
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Hello, I recently moved to Maine from Illinois and there is a lot more elevation here. I was already advised to go with a smaller front ring in Illinois but I was ok with powering along at a slightly lower cadence, however one ride here has convinced me that I need to make a change. I have a 2016 Specialized Tarmac Sport (specs on bikeradar here) with a stock 52/36 up front and 11/28 in the rear. Suggestions?
You can't have a meaningful answer without that.
I really liked 50-40-30 x 13-21 for the Colorado Rockies in the 8 speed era. With 11 cogs and 36 small ring 12-25 would be good for the mountains.
You might want a 42–30–20 triple crank and/or 11-36 cassette.
You need to figure it out with some arithmetic or change things until you're happy.
https://www.bikeforums.net/21350628-post18.html
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 03-31-20 at 07:40 PM.
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03-31-20, 04:26 PM
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The best part of this whole search for gearing is that if it doesn’t work out, the OP still has th3 original gearing to go back to if needed. Sounds like a fun experiment. I have a set of compact chainrings for my bike but I’m just so used to the 52/39 now (previous bike has 52/42!!!) that I’m not ready to try compact rings. But I’ve gotta do it at some point just to see how it rides. OP has some great ideas and I hope we find out which way he goes and how it works.
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03-31-20, 06:48 PM
#69
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The best part of this whole search for gearing is that if it doesn’t work out, the OP still has th3 original gearing to go back to if needed. Sounds like a fun experiment. I have a set of compact chainrings for my bike but I’m just so used to the 52/39 now (previous bike has 52/42!!!) that I’m not ready to try compact rings. But I’ve gotta do it at some point just to see how it rides. OP has some great ideas and I hope we find out which way he goes and how it works.
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04-01-20, 04:39 PM
#70
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Hi There,
I also live and ride in Midcoast Maine and enjoy some spirited group rides on hilly roads. I have been using 50-34 front chainrings and 11-30 cassette. If I'm planning to ride a super long ride like a brevet, I'll swap the cassette to 11-34 or 11-36. I have an Ultegra GS mid-cage derailleur and it's an easy swap. You've mentioned wanting to try a 46-30 chainring swap. That won't work with your current crank which is probably 110bcd. 34T is the smallest you can go (actually 33T if you buy a fancy French TA chainring). For those smaller chainrings you'll need a new crank like the already mentioned Shimano GRX or Easton EA. If you're looking for a good shop to help you with this, Bath Cycle in Woolwich have amazing mechanics!
David
I also live and ride in Midcoast Maine and enjoy some spirited group rides on hilly roads. I have been using 50-34 front chainrings and 11-30 cassette. If I'm planning to ride a super long ride like a brevet, I'll swap the cassette to 11-34 or 11-36. I have an Ultegra GS mid-cage derailleur and it's an easy swap. You've mentioned wanting to try a 46-30 chainring swap. That won't work with your current crank which is probably 110bcd. 34T is the smallest you can go (actually 33T if you buy a fancy French TA chainring). For those smaller chainrings you'll need a new crank like the already mentioned Shimano GRX or Easton EA. If you're looking for a good shop to help you with this, Bath Cycle in Woolwich have amazing mechanics!
David
04-02-20, 12:07 PM
#71
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Hi There,
I also live and ride in Midcoast Maine and enjoy some spirited group rides on hilly roads. I have been using 50-34 front chainrings and 11-30 cassette. If I'm planning to ride a super long ride like a brevet, I'll swap the cassette to 11-34 or 11-36. I have an Ultegra GS mid-cage derailleur and it's an easy swap. You've mentioned wanting to try a 46-30 chainring swap. That won't work with your current crank which is probably 110bcd. 34T is the smallest you can go (actually 33T if you buy a fancy French TA chainring). For those smaller chainrings you'll need a new crank like the already mentioned Shimano GRX or Easton EA. If you're looking for a good shop to help you with this, Bath Cycle in Woolwich have amazing mechanics!
David
I also live and ride in Midcoast Maine and enjoy some spirited group rides on hilly roads. I have been using 50-34 front chainrings and 11-30 cassette. If I'm planning to ride a super long ride like a brevet, I'll swap the cassette to 11-34 or 11-36. I have an Ultegra GS mid-cage derailleur and it's an easy swap. You've mentioned wanting to try a 46-30 chainring swap. That won't work with your current crank which is probably 110bcd. 34T is the smallest you can go (actually 33T if you buy a fancy French TA chainring). For those smaller chainrings you'll need a new crank like the already mentioned Shimano GRX or Easton EA. If you're looking for a good shop to help you with this, Bath Cycle in Woolwich have amazing mechanics!
David
I'm planning on keeping the crank and changing chainrings to 50/34 and the rear to 11/34, hopefully that will do the trick. I have it at SideCountry in Rockland now and I've been impressed with their approach so far, but it's always great to have options. Thank you for your input, happy riding!
04-02-20, 03:12 PM
#72
Portland Fred
Thanks David!
I'm planning on keeping the crank and changing chainrings to 50/34 and the rear to 11/34, hopefully that will do the trick. I have it at SideCountry in Rockland now and I've been impressed with their approach so far, but it's always great to have options. Thank you for your input, happy riding!
I'm planning on keeping the crank and changing chainrings to 50/34 and the rear to 11/34, hopefully that will do the trick. I have it at SideCountry in Rockland now and I've been impressed with their approach so far, but it's always great to have options. Thank you for your input, happy riding!
The deal with steep areas is that you tend to be in the bottom of your low gears or the top of your high ones. This means that midrange selectivity isn't so important -- and when it is, you can just swap in a narrower cassette because the extreme ends won't be so useful in such riding situations.
If 34x34 isn't enough to get you up those hills, a smaller ring combo up front (probably requiring a new crank) will probably be the ticket. Spinning out in high gears is really not an issue. Even with a 46 big ring, you don't spin out until 40mph -- at which point aero rather than your ability to spin the pedals is what's holding you back.
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04-02-20, 04:04 PM
#73
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The deal with steep areas is that you tend to be in the bottom of your low gears or the top of your high ones. This means that midrange selectivity isn't so important -- and when it is, you can just swap in a narrower cassette because the extreme ends won't be so useful in such riding situations.
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04-02-20, 04:11 PM
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I like the Mike Sherman calculator the best. Easier to visualize the impact of different setups. I'll sometimes open up two windows and look at them side-by-side.
04-02-20, 04:23 PM
#75
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The problem is that steep areas are sometimes next to flat areas. That's basically the theme of the Puget Sound area, especially for allroad riding: the river valleys are flattened out by stuff like lahars, with clusters of hills rising abruptly between them, all bordered by the Cascade foothills. If I wanted to do a ride from my home to the top of the nearest large foothill, it would include almost 20 miles of near-flat stuff and a 1-mile climb that averages almost 16%.
Comparing a 11-28 vs a 11-34 the 11-34 is actually Better up to and including 50/15, assuming a 50t big ring.
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