mstateglfr 

The answer is old frames with modern components. Its the perfect match.
As mentioned earlier, frame improvements are incremental compared to component advancements.

- Modern mid-level aluminum rims are exponentially better quality than mid-level rims from the 70s and 80s. Less spokes for same or more strength, less wiggle and wobble, etc.
- brakes on modern entry and mid-level road bikes now exponentially nicer feeling and perform better than entry and mid-level road bikes from the 70s and 80s.
- shifting is easier now.
- gear ranges are better now in that they are realistic and accessible for more ability levels.
- tires are so much nicer now.
- modern handlebars are more comfortable and have more useful hand positions.
- modern hood designs are comfortable.
- moder compact sloping geometry allows more riders to have their bikes set up with the bars at or above saddle height without needing to use unsightly nitto technomic stems.
-hydraulic disc brakes work great and are an upgrade for riding off pavement.



- Tubeless is neat, but not necessary.
- Disc brakes are neat, but not necessary for 80% of riders/riding.
- Di2 electronic shifting is neat, but I can't bring myself to see it as a necessary/substantial beneficial change.
- PF bottom brackets are less convenient and not an improvement from a convenience perspective.
- thru axles are beneficial, but only because of other modern tech benefits from them.

madpogue 

The handlebar change issue has nothing to do with the steerer type. Not all threadless stems have front caps that allow handlebar changes, and not all quill stems lack that cap. For some reason, more threadless stems incorporate the removable cap, but that's irrelevant to the difference in the steerer type.

As for frequency of height adjustment, we do it with any bike ridden by more than one person. Also, one's level of flexibility can change over time. Changes in the fore-aft balance of the bike, based on how it's loaded, can have an impact on how you want to position yourself, which can affect handlebar height.

RobbieTunes

With the exception of my touring rig (3x10 DT) and its more deliberate purpose, there is simply
no comparison.

There is no reason, really, to decipher it,

For example, an Ironman: I’ve ”done” two.

A. Innicycle headset:stem adapter, 6800, 3T wheels, used Look fork, CF stem, bars, post and saddle from the home of COVID-19 = an 18 lb. wide ranger that climbs, goes fast, descends without white knuckles and was easily worth a powder coat and decals. Oddjob’s ‘88.

B. Innicycle adapter, black 6700, used FSA crankset on external cups, carbon seating and steering from our future rulers and RXL hoops from when they looked like regular rims = 18 lbs of let’s go. Tribiker’s gift with a little help from her friends in the Empire, a red fade “Hey, what is that?”

Though I’m divesting of C&V to go burn stuff in Portland, they are the best of both camps and a bridge to every where.

scratchpaddy

Of course newer stuff is objectively better from a performance standpoint, but personally, I avoid it for aesthetic reasons. Modern bikes are overwhelmingly black and grey. When it comes to drivetrains, the option to buy anything shiny, or even just not black, has all but disappeared.

I love color. The more, the better. It's bright, it's happy, it's full of personality. I love shiny stuff, too, but apparently not enough other people like those things, because it's become almost impossible to buy anymore. And then there's the hunched frames with yard-long seatposts, bulky headsets that could never match the elegance of a quill, massive hydraulic brifters dwarfing the handlebars they sit on...

I've never ridden a fully-modern ultra-light full-carbon road rocket. I'm pretty sure I would like the ride, a lot. But would that extra speed and lightness be worth riding a generic matte-black monstrosity? Not to me, no. Maybe that makes me shallow, but it's my honest opinion.

Plus, I'd rather not pay for all that. Old stuff is cheap, as long as you're not fixated on the rare stuff, or having everything in perfect condition.

iab

I don't understand the posts claiming new stuff isn't reliable. I'm using 10-year-old Super Record, thousands of miles, its bulletproof (knock on wood). The steel frame that has the SR did fail last year (braze-on brake cable stop fell off, Waterford fixed it).

As for "better", don't really care. It's definitely different, but better is wasted on me, and I suspect everyone in this forum.

Drillium Dude 

I use hardly any new components, so can't say much except when it comes to modern rims. Modern rims with machined sidewalls allow me to use vintage brakes with original brake pad material and still stop on a dime. They seem less soft than the noodly old-school stuff and have proven quite reliable; Mavic MA3s and Open Pros are the two variations I rely on. When built with Record hubs, DT spokeage, and Vittoria Open Corsa "open tubular" tires = super-reliable and fast wheelset.

DD

Unca_Sam

Most posts likely aren't referring to Campy...

L134 

Seeming lack of modern, odd tooth count chain rings, sacrificed for sake of “compatible” rings for indexing?? (totally unnecessary for commuting, touring, recreational riding), limiting ability to customize gearing is definitely worse.

iab

I used Shimano 105/Ultegra/DA for a while before moving to the dark side. Seemed fine to me. It's crap?

madpogue 

Don't forget the marshmallows.

capt_velo

Indexed shifting on the bars is safer and easier, way better. Disc brakes in dry weather are slightly better, in wet weather, way better. The larger head tubes and threadless forks are different, but not an obvious improvement. PF bottom brackets suck.

nlerner

Here’s one of my modern rigs (which happens to be steel; not all new bikes are CF):

HTupolev

People overwhelmingly buy black and grey, but modern bikes are available in multitudes of vibrant colors in all styles and price points.

Here's my Emonda:



Components largely aren't available in silver, but I think the color matching works out. I'm not sure that metallic structural trim is a good look on today's wider-diameter stuff, especially since there's not a great way of integrating non-metallic components with the scheme.

Salamandrine 

Getting back to performance differences between vintage and modern components, I don't think there's as much as most folks might think. If it's not obvious I'm talking racing components here. I think a reasonable comparison would be a Campagnolo SR reduced group vs the latest Ultegra. Dura Ace now IMO is a bit too exclusive.

Let's look just at weight, since that can quantitatively be shown to improve performance. Things are surprisingly close between new and old.

• derailleurs: about the same
• brake calipers: about the same. if anything vintage were lighter
• Brake levers: STI weigh more than regular levers plus shifters, IIRC about 80+ grams
• Crankset w/ BB: modern hollow saves about 50 grams over say SR with a steel phil or similar. Going to a super fancy Campy Record carbon saves about 150g.
• wheels - about the same: campy low flange hubs with 36h Fiamme Ergal rims should be 1507g for a set. That's lighter than most modern wheelsets. OTOH a Regina FW might weight 350g vs ~250g for a cassette. (obv the cassette has more gears)
• Chains: new chains are a bit lighter. Not huge diff.
• Pedals: Look carbon or similar weigh about 230g or about half what SL pedals with clips and straps weigh.
• Seats and seat posts: here you can start saving fairly significant weight
• Stem and bars: same with these. Lots of options, but modern parts can potentially be quite a lot lighter, as is the threadless steerer system that goes with it.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say WRT to weight weenie issues only, the modern frame and fork account for most of the weight savings, but seat and seatpost, and bar and stem also contribute heavily to potentially lower weight. Nice clipless pedals save a few ounces too, as do shoes no doubt.

That said my Masi in race wheels weighed pretty close to 20lbs even BITD, with pedals. Lets say 19 and change without. To get comparable weight in a modern bike, you're going to have to spend at least 3 or 4 grand and up, as best as I can tell. Granted a Masi was expensive too originally. It really doesn't seem to me that the more middle class road/performance/race bikes have gotten lighter at similar price points. More convenient, smoother working, in many ways better, sure. That stuff doesn't necessarily get you to the top of the hill first.

Salamandrine 

Given the above conclusions, I'm thinking it would be in some ways more rational to put vintage parts on modern frame. A super record equipped modern carbon bike would be pretty funny if nothing else.

cudak888 

Yes, no, and maybe.

What's in the box?

$3.50.

-Kurt

CliffordK

Before one goes out and spends a bunch of money, take it to a shop and put the wheel in a truing stand. Verify that the rim is bent, and perhaps the hub is broken. Could it be out of true? Broken spokes?

And, of course, check out the rest of the bike.

If insurance is paying, replacement bikes/bike parts would be the cheapest expense.

RobbieTunes

I'm not paying that 3.50
Just say'n

RobbieTunes

+1

There used to be a UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle). Still is, in many ways.
I've had a couple of UBRW modern bikes (Universal Black with Red/White).
Many group rides are a Dull Convention; all the bikes are matte carbon with small accents of equally matte colors.
So, I liven things up. Components are still black or dark grey or a Hazy Shade of Winter.
They are still kind of interesting, especially this 1x stuff. I've used the 10t cog maybe 6 times, the 42t cog never, but it's coming.
I have jerseys, a helmet, headsweat, and stuff in this color. Visible.
I always liked Super Mario, a sprinter's heart without the plague of wrecks.
(If Pantani had hung around and made bikes, I would have been all over those.)

madpogue 

Door number two, Monty.

CliffordK

Add to that... I'm convinced that the new shift gated cassettes wear much faster than the old freewheels. I've abused chains in the past... then just replace the chain and all is good. Now, it seems as if I have to watch chain wear like hawk, or my cassette is TOAST.

Of course, that could also be changes to chain design too.

Nonetheless, the new cassettes with gates shift very nice, even with old friction sifters.

So far I've broken a few 9s chains, but never broken an 11s chain.

In fact, the last 11s chain I worked on broke my chain tool.

RiddleOfSteel

I will second that sentiment of modern bikes being available in fun colors, one just has to look a little bit, which can be an effort. Presently, Trek has gone for bonkers color options on their Emondas. As a former owner of a '16/17 ALR6 frameset (satin black with gloss color accents), silly colors make me want another one more than I already do. And if anything, now the components become the "backdrop" and the frame or frame's paint become the visual attraction. Add black wheels and tan wall tires and it looks stunning. Just look at this!



I would gladly buy and ride one of these again, just not for original MSRP because I buy nearly everything used anyways. Perhaps I could make an exception if I sold a few more things. Aluminum (ALR) model, 62cm, and rim brake. H2 geometry has the head tube quite tall, which is really comfortable. I'd probably just put my 10-speed Di2 components on it.

scratchpaddy

^ That Trek frame is encouraging to me. I'm sure color will make a comeback someday. It's just a matter of when the buying public at large decides it's cool again.

I love that frame color! But (this is just my opinion) I think it would look much better with components that weren't matte black all over. It just looks sad and generic to my eyes. Sorry.

I'm aware modern colored frames exist, but they're increasingly hard to find. Carbon frames were just the example I used, since those are the least likely to be found with color. Silver components are effectively dead and gone, though I don't think they'd look bad at all on a modern frame. They would look different, for sure, because the rise of carbon coincided with the death of polished aluminum. Everything is supposed to look "carbon" (i.e. matte black) now, I guess, because carbon = high performance.
You know, I actually kind of like that bike, there. At least the handlebar tape is bright and tied in with the frame, and the machined face on the chainring is a nice touch.

On second thought, my comment about quill stems is unfair. Oversized headsets look just fine on carbon; a quill stem would look bizarre and skinny there. I still think 1 1/8" threadless looks too chunky for a steel frame.

randyjawa 

I am a firm believer that newer components and even newer bikes perform better than any of my vintage steeds or stuff. There is, however, one thing that has not improved, in my mind...

Handlebar end caps! Perhaps is it just me and probably because I never buy pricey handlebar tape. Those little plastic push in caps are about a useless as the tits on a bull. I learned, long ago, to opt for the Velox caps...


.I even installed a set on my 2000 Marinoni Piuma...

iab

Cinelli sells those. In pretty anodized colors.