peanstein

My issue is that no matter what i try when initially setting the RD alignment, it is always set too far from the smallest sprocket (even after adjusting cable pull from scratch and messing with adjust screws)
If I back out both set screws (both RD's) and have the chain removed, the RD by default sits about 4mm too far from the smallest cog so the adjust screw does not bring it close enough.

I used a hanger tool to ensure hanger is parallel to the wheel so I know hanger is straight.
I have swapped rear derailleurs, shifter and also different wheels/cassettes to see if that was the issue and no luck.

If I back out both set screws (both RD's)on the RD and have the chain removed, the RD by default sits about 3mm too far from the smallest cog.

If I pull the cable ad push the RD to aling under the first cog, I do not have enough pull by the time I get to the 10 gear to have chain go to the largest rear cassette cog. If I tweak the barrel adjuster and set the set screw to allow as much shift to largest cog as possible, I can barely get the chain to go into the 10th gear but then I cannot go into the smallest cog when shifting through all gears.

I have setup multiple bikes/shifters etc and have never had this issue (Lemond, Trek/Specialized/Indy Fab/Giant etc without issues)

This is an older Caad8 Optimo frame and not sure if they are special?

I am thinking of shaving off 3mm of the 8mm portion of the hanger when the RD sits to bring the RD closer to the cassette but before I do.....
I wanted to ask if anyone has a clue to something I may be overlooking or an Ace up their sleeve from experience.

Thanks for any info you may have.

Victor

JoeTBM 

So I am gathering that this has a 10 speed rear wheel.

Is it possible that the RD has the wrong adjusting screws (too short) or are broken/worn down?

Is it possible that there is wrong/improper spacer(s) on the axle forcing the the cogs further away from the DE?. Pictures would help. You are almost to 10 posts allowing you to add pictures or use a service for hosting the picture and list the link here adding spaces between sections of the URL

dsaul

Don't shave anything off the hanger and please post some pics when you get to 10 posts. From your description, it would seem that the derailleur is too far inboard, so shaving material off the hanger is going to make it go further inboard(toward the larger cogs). Only one of those limit screws has any relation to the alignment with the smallest cog and that is the one with the "H" next to it. Loosening it allows the derailleur to go further outboard. The one with an "L" next to it is for stopping the derailleur from going past the largest cog at the other end of the cassette.

As for not having enough pull to reach the largest cog, you may have a compatibility issue between the shifter and derailleur. Please advise what shifter and derailleur you are using.

blamester

Was this a bike that was working before?.
If so what was changed?
Shaving material from the deraiieur hangar is not a good idea.

Trakhak

First step---take the bike to a shop to have the derailleur hanger tab checked for alignment. In fact, you should pay the shop to fix the problem and then ask the mechanic to explain in detail how they diagnosed it and what it was.

70sSanO

If you disconnect the cable and remove the chain, can you manually reach both ends of the cassette?

You need to figure out if it is a shifter issue, cable pull, or not. To be honest, I’ve never had a RD that did not reach the 1st position. And I’ve had bikes where the chain was almost rubbing against the dropout.

John

Barry2 

You refer to “pulling the cable” and “pushing the RD” to align with the smallest cog.

Remove the cable from the RD.
Back out both H &L limiting screws.
The RD under the power of its own spring should move beyond the smallest cog and drop the chain.
If you have to gently pull the RD further towards the small cog, it is a RD spring or pivot issue.

Barry

Iride01 

So you are saying that when you tighten the high limit adjust screw it doesn't move the pully wheels over to line up with the small cog? Somethings wrong if tightening the high limit screw doesn't result in any movement.

Have you put mountain bike components on it or mixed some up that you aren't aware of? Got an wheel hub for a smaller drop out spacing and cobbled things together and the cassette is too far from the dropout?

Might just need to find the Shimano specs and guides for your components and follow them from square one...... assuming they are Shimano.

peanstein

Sorry, should have mentioned several things last night when posting.

The wheels are the same I have used on other road bikes. Also grabbed other 10s rear wheels but still no luck.
I'll answer some of the other posts to reach 10 posts and add pics.

Thx!

peanstein

The entire 10s groupo came off a working lemond Alpe d'HUez.
I've also swapped RD's and shifters with no luck.

I'm beginning to think its the cable or housing?
Will continue answering posts and give a comprehensive reply at the end.
Thanks for the feedback!

peanstein

I purchased the frame/fork and was building it up for my brother.
The groupo was just pulled from a working bike snd shifted perfectly.

peanstein

You do have a point in having a shop check the hanger tab as that is one thing I have not checked.
I've found out that running into obstacles such as this helps one learn many other things that one would normally not encounter.

For now, I'll learn a few things and as a last resort, will go to a shop and have a reputable mechanic shows me the er of my ways.

peanstein

Yes, the derailleur can go past both sides of the cassette.
The only difference from when the groupo was working is the frame, cable as I am using a new one, and used housing that I had of the same size.
Things is, I've used 2 working shifters nad have the same result. Perhaps TrakHak might be onto something with the hanger tab?

peanstein

With the cable removed and screws all the way out, the RD will move past the smallest cog and want to drop the chain.
If i remove the chain, the pulley goes past the smallest cog and almost rubs on the dropout.
With the chain removed, if I adjust the adjust screw, it clearly adjusts properly and can move the guide wheel above the 2nd cog.
with chain removed, I can manually push the RD way past teh largest cog and pretty much almost touch the spokes so the range is there.
This is the same with a 2nd. RD I pulled off another road bike.

70sSanO

So you can move the derailleur under, and past, the first position cog by hand. It is a correct statement that the return spring can’t move it there?

John

Barry2 

ok so with cable still unattached are you are able to set the limit screws correctly?
such that you can by hand move the RD through all gears with no chain drops?

freeranger

Are you using a 10 spd. shifter? Seems obvious, but I have to ask.

Iride01 

Typically, I'd set the high and low limit screws initially with no chain and no cable attached. But I haven't used every DR out there. And we just had a post recently about a DR that doesn't have limit screws. I hope your DR isn't that old.

Might be time for some pics..... even if the shop gets you straightened out. It'll at least help the contorted picture in my head. <grin>

BoraxKid

If you are able to set the rear derailleur position at the smallest cog without the chain installed, but then adding the chain changes the alignment of the derailleur, that would indicate something is up with your chainline. From your descriptions, it's hard to parse out exactly what is happening, but this is how I would approach the problem:

• start with no cable attached, no chain installed
• set the high limit screw on the rear derailleur so that the pulley wheel is in the correct position under the smallest cog on the cassette
• push the derailleur over to the big cog and set the low limit screw
• install the chain and verify that the rear derailleur alignment is still correct at the smallest and largest cogs. if the rear derailleur alignment is no longer correct, then check your chain length is correct and that your front derailleur and cranks are aligned and spaced properly
• assuming the rear derailleur alignment is still good, install the cable & check the indexing. if the shifting is bad, check the shifter and cable. if the shifting is good, go for a ride.

I think following those steps will elucidate where the problem(s) is. Good luck!

Barry2 

"elucidate" I had to look that one up!



Barry

jadocs

Take the cable off....are you then able to set the limit screws properly?

jadocs

This...the only thing I would add is, screw the barrel adjuster all the way down, then back it out 2-3 turns (so you have room to add tension or slack) before you attach the cable so you can use it to fine tune the indexing.

ShannonM

Is the housing loop pushing the derailleur slightly inward? I've been bitten that way... drove me nuts trying to figure it out.

--Shannon

peanstein

First of all, my apologies for the delayed reply as work and other projects around the house were pressing.

With the chain off, I can move RD by hand past both inner and outers of the cassette.
If I let it rest, the RD goes past the small cog and I am able to adjust it close to the 2nd cog using the limit screw.
More details to follow as I was ble to figure out what was off from someones comment up top.

peanstein

Yes,
the limit screws are doing the ir job and they allow me to go past the cogs as they are meant to do so.