Jipe

It looks very much like a 2016 Riese&Müller World Birdy Sport (same color, same design) with:
➜ Shimano 8-speed derailleur
➜ Mudguards and kickstand
➜ Weight: 11.9 kg
➜ Gear ratio: 2.57 to 7.04 m

Good point for a tall rider, it has the sport 21degree stem and should have a 56x11 transmission (a little better than the usual 52x11).

The The Pacific Cycles New Birdy Classic also 8 speed Shimano, also the old chain tensioner but with semi-integrated headset (not necessarily an advantage), also rim brakes, without mudguards, without kickstand is announced at 10.9kg and cost 1390USD + shipment + taxes.

If you provide me your Email, I have the R&M 2016 catalog with this bike in it and all specs in .pdf

A Birdy R20 11SP with 11 speed, monocoque frame and disc brake is better (but V-brake should provide enough braking power) but he price isn't the same !

To have an idea of the used Birdy prices in Europe, look here: https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-birdy/k0

MkTez

Hi guys, I saw somewhere in this thread that the front hub is Birdy-specific? Meaning i can't use any ol' DT Swiss 350 disc hubs for my Birdy? Can someone enlighten me pls

Jipe

The front hub of the Birdy is 100mm wide so its standard width.

But the Birdy disc has his disc placed on the right side of the bike at a distance from the dropout which is similar to the distance from the dropout of a rear disc while the usual front disc is closer to the left dropout.

So, its not possible to use a reversed standard disc front hub on a Birdy disc, it requires a specific hub.

The rim brake Birdy use standard front hubs.

sicknsore

Does anyone here use their birdy on bullhorn bar? I’ve always wanted to convert my 2014 new classic to bullhorn, attached is my current state birdy



im using 10 speed shimano 105 5600 series for the most of the GS and wondering what parts do i need to convert it to bullhorn.

bike.gang.uk

Brompton front luggage block adapter for Birdy III. Probably can only live in sample stage. Too expensive to sell.

Schwinnsta

Now that is a good idea and very well executed. Thanks for posting it.

Jipe

Why would this be so expensive ?

Valeria is selling a front block adapter for bicycle with a 35mm head tube for 60€




This Birdy adapter shouldn't be much more expensive and I think there would be a lot of Birdy owner interested.

Schwinnsta

And what folder could you mount that on?

BromptonINrio

you can mount Valéria mount in any folder.
Just mount it on folding handlepost.
it will afect stering as any other basket.

It will be perfect suitted for stridas and moultons

Schwinnsta

Oh, yes for those bikes it works. It looks perfect for moulton. I was thinking for bikes like my Xootr.

Jipe

Moulton head tube is only 32mm, it doesn't fit perfectly.

Schwinnsta

Shimming is close enough.

Jipe

The effort on the front bloc is very high, it must be very rigidly attached to the head tube/frame otherwise it induces shimmy in the steering of the bike.

3mm difference is a lot.

Schwinnsta

If I still had a moulton I would try it. 1.5 thickness metal shim just might do it.

gleearch

I saw this on the FB Birdy community page yesterday. Really nice concept and would be popular with Birdy owners. Everyone keeps saying it will be too expensive to manufacture but don't actually state what the cost to manufacture is? The designer could also try approaching established 3rd party accessory manufacturers like Litepro and license the design to them. I could see Litepro bringing this to market. The original designer does not seem to have been identified either.

ImplodingVoice

Why doesn't Pacific Cycles simply offer a front luggage block?
Can't they create a frame with a front luggage mount (optional)?
Does Brompton have legal ownership of this design?

Jipe

I do not think that Brompton has any legal ownership on it.

Other manufacturers have a Brompton front block mount on their bike: Bike Friday, Tyrell, Seattle Cycle...

Just adding a front block mount on the head tube of the Birdy and mounting a standard Brompton block has some limitations on the type of bag usable.

With the sport 21 degree stem, only low (260mm) frame bags can be used. A high frame (300mm) will hit the stem.

The above showed adapter changes the angle of the block wrt. the head tube and place the block a little further away from the stem to avoid this limitation.

glye

One possible reason is that this would be a deviation from the Birdy design. If Pacific is making Birdys on a license from R&M, they may not approve. I don't think the two bolt holes are a design Brompton owns, at least Tern uses it. I have seen that on a Tern bought in Germany. (This is guessing, I don't know the legal arrangements.) Then again, there is is the titanium Birdy, which is a pretty major deviation.

Another reason is that Birdys can mount two front panniers, so there is less need. But I agree the Brompton style block is a good design. Doesn't affect the steering much.

Jipe

The Tern front block is different from the Brompton one.

But the Bike Friday and Tyrell one are exactly the same and meant to use a Brompton front block.

The 3 titanium Birdy versions are completely different bike, they share nothing with the aluminum Birdy and also are different from each other.

Some could argue that these were produced in a very small amount and not available to the mainstream public.

But the New Birdy Classic which is produced by Pacific Cycles only is also a different design and is a mainstream product. There is also the new eBirdy from Pacific Cycles only.

So, I do not think that Pacific Cycles cannot make modifications to the Birdy.

The low rider and front bag are different things used mainly for different purposes: the low rider is more meant for travel while the front bag is in first instance meant for daily use, commuting...

glye

The Brompton style front bag is handy for touring too, I used a handlepost mounted bag for that in addition to front panniers, because of the limited capacity of the rear rack. But front panniers are less likely to be used by commuters, yes.

Pacific have done modifications, but do they have the freedom to make any change they like and still call it a Birdy? That would surprise me. I would expect R&M to approve or deny changes before Pacific can make them. But who knows.

Jipe

Indeed, the question is who owns the Birdy brand name ?

R&M designed the original Birdy but couldn't produce it nor finance its production by a third party.

Pacific Cycles invested in the production of the Birdy.

So, it would be normal that Pacific Cycles would also have some ownership of the Birdy brand.

It would be strange that R&M approved the 3 generations of titanium Birdy that use the Birdy brand name but are 100% different from the aluminum Birdy and fully designed by Pacific Cycles without any participation of R&M (they do not share any part of design of any part with the aluminum Birdy: the main frame, front fort and rear arm are totally different) ?

When the 3rd generation Birdy was presented at Taipei bicycle show, Pacific Cycles representative explained that it is a 100% Pacific Cycle new design and that this design could be the reused for the next generation aluminum Classic Birdy what would mean that Pacific Cycles has ome freedom to design Birdy models.

glye

Right, that would be a valid reason to sell off some/all of the rights to control the brand/design, indeed.

Strange that R&M would approve it? No, given the Birdy is a high-end, pricy folder, the even costlier high-tech titanium edition would be "on-brand" for them.
Strange that Pacific should depend on R&M for approval? Depends on the the details of the agreement, which afaik we don't have.

In any case, it seems there's nothing legal stopping R&M/Pacific (whoever controls it) from adding Brompton style block fittings. There could be technical reasons - like strength/weight/manufacturing considerations in aluminium vs. steel frames, or interference with dynamo lights, or with brake/shift cables (I see Brompton routes the cables behind the head tube). Or the designers don't want it for stylistic reasons. Or they simply haven't gotten around to it yet.

Jipe

Approval of the TI Birdy means also to take some responsibility if the design has some problems.

It seems to me difficult for R&M to take any responsibility of a design they didn't participate to at all.

What they could do is approve it from a marketing point of view.

There is also the eBirdy that is a Pacific Cycles design. This one use the Zehus integrated motor wheel that has some conceptual issues. I doubt that R&M who is focusing on high end eBikes would approve the choice of the Zehus system.

ImplodingVoice

Thank you to everyone for replying and sharing your knowledge of the topic. A front luggage block on a Birdy bike, with the sports stem, would not work due to the geometry of the design; correct?

​​​​​​If it's true that a front luggage block on a sports stem Birdy has space Clearance Issues (i.e. it's a failure), then is there any point in discussing this at all? :-)
If a small luggage bag *can* fit on a front block, then I would imagine proper drilling or industrial adhesive may work to affix a block.

Please share if a block can accommodate a front bag, on a sports stem Birdy.

Schwinnsta

The sports stem would impair the usefulness of the block but a small bag or perhaps the dual pannier rack or some such. Ideally a lug for the block would be brazed or welded during manufacturing.