ridethetown

This is my first post in a few years so it feels like I'm "new" around here, so....hello again. I moved from Oakland to Reno 18 months ago, so finally have committed myself to the Death Ride, being right in my backyard.


Background: I'm 35, have done maybe 10 centuries or metrics, the toughest being Tour of the Unknown Coast in Humboldt with 10K climbing, followed by the Oakland Grand Fondo in its first year when it was a century and had around 8K vertical gain. Fastest century was turned in with a 5:15 ride time on a flat course with 2-3 other riders, but that was quite a while ago. I haven't been on the road bike much the last couple years, partly due to lots of travel and a move, partly because I got (for the first time) a mountain bike last summer and find the MTB to be superior to the road riding here around Reno & Tahoe.


Bottom line, I'm not a terrible rider but need structure and discipline to feel confident that I can finish the Death Ride with my dignity intact. My biggest question is whether to seek online coaching.


My goal is to finish without blowing up; I'd love to be mid-pack but have no idea what time that equates to (9 hours?). My weakness is cramping. I finished the Oakland Grand Fondo on dead legs having cramped at mile 70 and limping the rest of the way in over 2500 additional vertical. Made a friend on the course that gave me magnesium (I think?) and it helped.


I plan to ride 4 days a week starting mid-March, adding a 5th day through May and June. I plan to mix in lots of MTB into my training to keep it more interesting. Also considering getting a gravel bike with disc brakes to open up yet more route possibilities. Tentatively I'm planning on spending 2-3 days/week on road or gravel and 2 days on the mountain bike. I might mix some road rides on my fixed gear also.


My questions are:

1. Can anyone share general experiences (positive or negative) working with an online coach for a similar goal?

2. I'm looking into CTS, Chris Carmichael's program - if anyone can speak to that program, whether it was worth it, and getting the most out of it.

3. The bike - maybe the most controversial question: I'm on a 2016 Tarmac Pro Race. It's a wonderful ride - DA, carbon wheels, smooth, fast, rigid, reasonably light (18 lbs), yeah, yeah, yeah...BUT - is it the right tool for the job? I've been comfortable (enough) for 100 miles, but this ride is so much more than I've ever dug into. As I said, I'm considering picking up a gravel bike with disc brakes - in the experience of successful finishers is that a better choice for event day? I may have to settle for an aluminum frame to keep costs down - would a heavier AL gravel bike with hydraulics and lower gearing be better over Monitor and Ebbits than the fast & light Tarmac?

3.a: If I ride the Tarmac, should I replace the carbon rims it came with for aluminum to avert the possibility of failure? I hear that's a real thing...


Thanks guys - looking forward to learning as I go and reporting back!

Secret Squirrel

I done the death ride twice. It is definitely its own animal. I can only comment on what I should have done for training. The hardest point (for me) was after the about the 80 mile point. The changes I will make will be doing more sustained climbs after longer times in the saddle. I have already revisited my gearing and went lower as a bail out and augmented my hydration potential with an additional water bottle cage. Since you are near the area, nothing beats training on the actual course. The closest I have been to the death ride is a double century (13 hours).

ridethetown

If I ride the Tarmac, I'm going to swap out the crankset for a true compact, and look into a 32t for the cluster. Still, it's the fatigue from a more aggressive position vs. fatigue from pushing a heavier bike up the passes that's hard for me to wrap my head around. Of course if I had another $5k to spend...

Heathpack 

woodcraft

Switching to a heavier bike is not a great direction to go for an event w/ lots of climbing.

I ride a Tarmac w/ carbon rims ('tho tubular) on similar events with no issue. The route is on moderately graded roads (~7% max) so braking is NBD.

IME, an 11/32 or 11/34 cassette is very worthwhile.

A brief survey of RidewithGPS shows more times around 10-11 hrs than shorter, so 9 hrs may not be realistic.

AFA training, riding 4-5 days a week sounds like burn-out to me. Some of the time should be put to long rides- 8 hr+, to condition to the physical & mental demands of a long day.

Managing food, hydration, clothing, & even sun exposure can be as important the pedaling. Practice an early start, especially if that's not your norm.

Pre-riding part of the course can be very helpful, & having a training/riding partner is great & makes the-day-of more fun.

Hermes

I have not done the Death Ride but I used to live in NorCal and had a buddy who rode it a lot. Here are some ideas.

Body weight - low. Go for the lower edge of your weight range. This may be the biggest thing you can do because it will make climbing easier.

Weather - highly variable. The descents can be cold and there can be rain. So having the right clothes is very important.

Braking - variable depending on your descending style. If the roads are wet and or rain, then a metal braking surface may be better than carbon. Although, I have newer carbon clinchers that have a fancy dancy braking surface that is as good as metal. I do not see my carbon rims as unsafe but they are newer design. However, the Death Ride is all about climbing and descending.

Training - climbing. Do a lot of long climbs similar too or on the course.

Bike / equipment - Whatever you are most comfortable climbing with and light weight.

Don't change a thing - Figure out what works before the event and then DO NOT CHANGE A THING RIGHT BEFORE THE EVENT.

Have fun!!

@Heathpack What she said.

ridethetown

Good advice. I generally ride 3/4 days per week in the summer without training, so think that mixing in MTB and gravel rides will help stave off burnout. Grinding out 150+ mile weeks on roads around Reno in summer winds sounds no fun. I'm planning to pre-ride Monitor and Ebbits individually, though who knows how big the window will be the way this winter is going.

So basically, stop celebrating every ride with a beer? Damn. Or figure out a way to incorporate beer into my success plan and not change a thing? I can work with that. Seriously though, I'm at 180 winter weight now, maintain around 175 during riding season and strive to be low 170's by July. Not a huge drop but sure helps on that 9,999th foot of climbing.

Regarding the bike, I'm now looking at the Canyon Grail CF (ugly, yes), but it's affordable in the 105 group and comes in around 20 lbs. Close enough to my Tarmac (18 give or take) if it's a substantial leap in all-day comfort. I squirm after 5 hours on the Tarmac.

Bostic

I have completed the Death Ride 3 times and also the Alta Alpina 8 pass double century 3 times which is basically the same course but more stuff thrown in with the first climbs last on the day (Ebbetts and Monitor). Everything that Hermes posted is spot on for a successful ride. The first year I did it was 2008 with an absolutely epic downpour for the latter part of Carson climb and all of the 16 mile descent back down. I had sufficient clothing to stay warm and not have to wear a garbage bag for the descent.

The Tarmac should be more than adequate with a 34x32. One year I brought a 36x28 low and that was a lot of stopping to give my legs a rest later in the day and evening up the final climb on the Alta Alpina (Monitor from Topaz).

Where you are in Reno you have great climbs to train though it will be the same route. Mt. Rose HW 431 from the base up to the top is 16 miles to the top at 8900' which is excellent elevation training. Then descend 8 miles to Incline Village and U-turn back up after filling up at a gas station or coffee shop. The descent back to Reno can be a challenge if there is a lot of vehicle traffic as some sections have little to no shoulder. It can also be windy out of nowhere so be mindful with deep carbon wheels. Then cross over to where it becomes HW 341 and take that up Geiger Grade which tops out at 6600'. A short descent to Virginia City to refuel again. If you stay on the main road through Virginia City it becomes HW 342 where you will end up at a very obvious and very steep curve. This is about the best you can get to simulate the steep sections of Ebbetts pass.

tomato coupe

One thing I learned from my coach is that cramping is often related to the meal you had the night before the event.

ridethetown

Good call - that's a legit ride! I just mapped Reno to Kingvale and back via Mt. Rose, Brockway, and Donner Pass: 128.5 miles; 13,200' gain.

I'm sure the gearing on the Tarmac will be fine if I get the 34x32. What I'm lamenting is that I'm getting a gravel bike with disc brakes either way, and thinking that the right machine may preclude the necessity to drop hundreds more swapping my crankset, cluster, and possibly (realizing probably not) new wheels with an aluminum braking surface for the Tarmac. Would I need a mid cage rear mech, or would it be okay if paired with a true compact up front?

woodcraft

Just get a Roadlink for $20, a cassette & chain & you're good to go- that's what I did.

The gravel bike looks fun, but if you feel beat up after 5 hours in the saddle on the one bike, you probably will on the other.

I have a friend who did the Death Ride quite a few years ago & he still talks about it a lot- a peak experience for him.

stanion

If you aren't inclined to read up on sport physiology yourself, then get a coach to help train you. The benefit isn't just about achieving training goals, but also avoiding injury. Core strength is important for longer rides. I use Hammer Endurolytes to avoid cramping (but if you have a coach, you'll get a custom answer to that question). If I go this year, I'll ride my Black Mountain Road+.

ridethetown

Yeah, I'm leaning towards riding the horse that's gotten me to the finish before. Probably just swap out some gearing and maybe flip my stem.

That's what I was thinking. I actually love reading about physiology and training and know quite a bit; it's just the 'keep me honest' factor I think coaching will help provide. I am also injury-prone so think that a few months coaching would do me good anyhow.

kcjc

Did it last year. Wasn't as prepared as I would like and was cramping through the last three hours of a 12-hour trek but Tums kept me going. 10 hours moving seems to be a decent time. I trained for 6 months (starting back from shoulder surgery) and did FasCat Hill Climbing training plan, advance, as the final prep but didn't do any century plus rides during the period. Six hours was the longest saddle time I did during this period. Three weeks prior to DR, I did a 5/4 hours ride on Sat/Sun and thought I was ok. Nope. Don't have carbon rim but my aluminum was more than adequate considering it rained on the Ebbetts north descent, from the top of the hill to the lunch stop. Not heavy but there were a few spots where I had a hard time seeing around the bend. Lucky the descent is not technical. There's really only one bend on the north descent of Ebbetts that requires attention and the rest is pretty boring. I was passing riders left and right using disc on lower portions of the descent during the rain and only crashes I came upon was also riders on disc. So not a equipment issue...

kreative

Everything depends on you and your riding style. But I'll try to address some in a general sense.

Compact Gearing: Switching to compact crank with 32 cassette will definitely help on the hills. None of them are terribly steep, just more of a long grind so if you can keep a good cadence on less than 10% grades, work on endurance.

Brakes: I've never felt the need for disc brakes, and again, since it's not very steep, you should be fine. Again it's comes down to how comfortable you are descending. It's similar for the carbon wheels - I don't feel that confident on long descents braking on carbon wheels so I prefer aluminum myself. I ride Hed Belgium C2's w/ 25mm tires which is pretty comfortable.

The Tarmac geometry should be fine for the ride, but only your body can tell you if it's too aggressive for long rides and long climbs. Since it sounds like you've done quite a few centuries on it and such, I have a feeling it should be OK.

Training: You have the benefit of being at higher altitude so you'd be more acclimated for the ride. You have quite a bit of time to train which is great as well. It's up to you if you want a coach to help you plan and keep you motivated. I think indoor training is most efficient following a TrainerRoad program or something similar. If you're more keen on riding outside, I would say mix up your rides between long medium effort rides to build endurance and hard climbing intervals/repeats to build strength.

During your rides also test out gear (kit, vest, etc) and nutrition (liquid and solid) for the ride. Research nutrition that's going to be provided on the ride and see if that will work for you else prepare to bring your own. Pre-riding the course would be awesome to give you a sense of the climbs.

Good luck, have fun!

Carbonfiberboy 

There's a whole book out there somewhere about training and equipment for the DR. I read parts of it long ago. It's not the Bo Crane book. Stuff I remember from the book: you only have to climb at at steady 1400'/hour to finish within the limit. IOW, don't push it. He definitely recommended a 34T cassette, but I don't remember with what rings. You need to have gearing so you can spin up 12% pretty easily. Never stand except for butt breaks. Use a power and cadence calculator to check your proposed gearing. They don't lie:
Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator
Mike Sherman's Bicycle Gear Calculator
Bicycle Bike Gear Ratio Speed and Cadence Calculator

A training plan and a doc:
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/traini...rance-coaching
https://two-tired-trips.blogspot.com/...ath-ride.html:

ridethetown

@kcjc - Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds like you took your training quite seriously and still felt undertrained. Would you say the missing factor was more 100+ rides, or more work at AT to stave off cramping? I too have these issues on hot hilly rides.
@kreative - Great info. I'm absolutely swapping out my gearing for a true compact and am leaning towards picking up a set of aluminum clinchers. I need a winter wheel anyways with the sand and gravel on the roads up here in wet conditions.
@Carbonfiberboy - Is the book you're thinking of the ACE Training Guide? Along with the resources you mentioned, I've found some good information there. Those gearing charts and calculators are pretty cool. I'm going to be upgrading my on-bike tech from a standard computer to a Garmin 820 so will at least have heart rate and cadence, which should help me evaluate my gearing needs.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, that's the book.

I haven't done the DR, but have done many long mountain rides. For me, both training goals you mention are important. I'll do a weekly 4-5 hour ride with substantial climbing, doing all the climbs well up into the Sweet Spot, recovering only down into zone 3, so little zone 2 and zero zone 1. I'll then do maybe 3 long mountain rides and then a taper in the 10 days before the event.

kcjc

spelger

Hey, welcome to reno. have lived here about 14 years now. don't know much about training for that but give geiger grade a whirl. safer (IMO) that mt rose highway.

-scott

ridethetown

Reviving this thread to see if anyone else is training and wanting to report back on workouts and progress towards being prepped for the climbing. I've been keeping the variety high by mixing in a lot of time on the mountain bike. I'm right around 150-180 miles/week. Still, so far my biggest rides are 76/5300' on road, 38/4800' on gravel, and 28/4400' on singletrack. Getting a little nervous about my goal to complete 4-5 rides of over 10k or more...

rivers

Good luck with the ride. Looks like it will be pretty killer. I just did a 118 mile ride with just shy of 10,000 ft of climbing in prep for my double century in 3 weeks time. Can't imagine 15,000 feet... although I do like a challenge. Might have to plan a trip stateside to visit my brother and sister in law in San Fran and tie this in somehow in 2020.

banerjek

I've done the Everest Challenge (29K') twice and the Shasta Super Century (about 16.5K') about 10 times. I think both rides are defunct now but they were great.

In terms of finishing the ride, it's about pacing, nutrition, and keeping your head on. You appear to be focusing on physical conditioning -- important, but not as much so as those other things. You don't need a lot of rides, just a chance to figure out how to manage and deal with stuff.

You need to work in some really long days (preferably 10+ hrs) with plenty of climbing that includes steep sections. After you've been riding a long time, extended steeps in the heat can be brutal particularly if you've blown your spinning muscles. You can get in situations where you need hydration and calories, but you can't stand the idea of drinking or eating anything. Stuff that's no big deal if you're out for just a few hours suddenly becomes a big deal.

Decide what bike you're going to do this on, and put some long days with a lot of climbing in.

fastcarbon

I did the ride 4 times. I had two climbing double centuries under my belt before I did it. I recall 6 -7% grades most of the ride. If you like to go fast on the downhill twisties you will love it. The 395 side of Monitor Pass may give you the fastest speeds you have seen but the turns are pretty wide open. I was at 61 mph for about 5 minutes. I did use Duralites (sp) or another salt/potassium pill to prevent cramping. The ride is mostly about pacing yourself. When I did it the first part of the ride was at racing speeds so don't use it up trying to stay with the leaders who have done it before.