pstock

this question relates to folding bikes but has nothing to do with the folding aspect, so I am posting here, in Bike Mechanics.

I have an old drop bar Bike Friday which came factory-setup with a 3x7 IGH and CORRECTION 9S (not 8S) campagnolo Daytona shifters.
CORRECCTION. This next statement is completely wrong {"I understand that this was their Go To setup back in the day because the pull ratio of 8S Campy matches the sprocket pitch of Shimano 7S cassettes, 5.0/5.0"

9S Campagnolo shifters way off 8S Shimano cassette sprocket pitch

https://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-l...PDLCp71MCosl58

I find the RH shifter extremely stiff and hard to shift down (i.e. pushing the big lever in) even though when the cable is detached, the shifter is smooth, easy and light as a feather.
I have replaced the housing and cables and lubed the shifter and RD. but a weak handed rider would have a hard time operating this RHshifter.
it's beensuggested that maybe Shimano RD (this is 600 6400) have stiffer springs and so there is more resistance.

I am thinking of refitting it all with 8S Shimano shifters
But, those shifters would have a different pull ratio than a 7S cassette, 4.80 vs 5.0.

can I replace that original 7S cassette with seven cogs and spacers off an 8S Shimano cassette on the 7S freehub to make the shifters match the cassette?

(interestingly, another BF I have from the same era, 1997, came with 8S 105 shifters and a 7S GH. and they have worked well. I have to take that cassette apart and see if it is 7S or just seven 8S sprockets and spacers.)

Dave Mayer

I just finished the overhaul of a pair of Daytona shifters. I have done this for dozens of Campy Ergopower shifters, from 8 to 11 speeds. As long as you have the parts, these shifters have an indefinite lifespan.

I have never seen 8-speed Daytona shifters, only 9 speed and later 10 speeds.

Second, Shimano derailleurs are not indexing compatible with Ergopower shifters.

Nevertheless, there are some combinations of Campy shifters and Shimano derailleurs that result in the correct amount of derailleur travel for specific cog spacing. Campagnolo 10 with Shimano derailleurs can work on 5.0mm cog spacing.

CliffordK

This has a good description of different pull ratios, and what should work.

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycl...ive_Components

I wonder if Bike Friday had sourced old series rear derailleurs.

Anyway, an option that Bike Friday also used was to put the 9-speed Ultegra shifters on the bike, then to cut down the cassette from 9 sprockets to 8 sprockets. Possibly adding a spacer behind it.

One note, the SACHS hubs also did not have the groove for 11T. They do work more or less, but need a long cassette locknut to work properly.

I've had issues with the older 9s Ultegra shifters, and would probably modernize if I was starting anew.

10s to 9s would probably also work.

pstock

Now I am completely confused and ready to go back to Square One and start All Over.

pstock

I am clearly not reading these tables correctly.
I get the Shifter + rear mechanism but I don't know how the different cassette styles factor into it.
If I used an 8S Shimano shifter withan 8S Shimano RD but on a 7S cassette, wouldn't that mess everything up?

nope, I still don't get it.

I have to do some more reading.

Dave Mayer

I checked my stash of Daytona shifters. Here is something helpful: if the big white lettering on the right-hand shifter says: '9-speed', then it is a 9-speed. If it says: '10-speed', then it is a 10-speed shifter.

CliffordK

Ok,

There are a couple different cable pulls for rear derailleurs (since they started indexing).

Shimano rear derailleur pull ratio.CampagnoloTo a large extent, you can mix and match derailleurs within the above classes. So, you should be able to use an 8s and 7s derailleur interchangeably.

The chart lists "HUBUB", which uses the same derailleurs, but changes the cable routing slightly which affects the actual cable pull slightly.

For the cassettes and freewheels, they have steadily gotten narrower spacing between the sprockets over the years, and don't always match between Campagnolo and Shimano.

It is easy enough to make a cut-down cassette, to use an 8, 9, or 10 speed cassette on a 7-speed freehub. Just leave one sprocket off. Unfortunately, because the sprockets are bunched, it can be a pain choosing the sprocket to leave off.

Then, if using, say 8 of 9, simply adjust the derailleurs to only shift through 8 sprockets.

pstock

Mine say "DAYTONA" and that's All.

Miele Man

I'm confused as to what you have on t he back wheel for gears. Is it an IGH (Internal Gear Hub) with 7 internal gears or is it a 7-speed Cassette?

If it's a 7-speed cassette. then you might have some luck with an alternate cable clamping on the rear derailleur. You'd have to experiment to see if it'll work.

If your IGH takes a Hyperglide cassette I'd just buy a 9-speed cassette and chain. I run 7-of 9 (or is it 8 of 9? I'd have to look) cogs from a 9-speed cassette on my touring bike shifted with a Campagnolo 9-speed Ergo shfter and rear derailleur and a 9-speed chain. It works quite well.

Cheers

Dave Mayer

No, it is not labeled on the blade - look higher up on the plastic body. Here is a picture of a right shifter I just overhauled. This one says: '9 Speed'.

Is it possible that you are using two left-hand shifters?

pstock

Geee, that's so helpful Dave.

I never would have thought of that.
here's the face of my RH shifter.
maybe if I did some forensic analysis I'd find traces of 9S lettering on the face. But nada evident to the naked eye.
and they both have the thumby thingee pointing to the inside, so I think I've got a match pair.



In fact looking through my inventory, many of my campagnolo shifters do not indicate how many speeds they are.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BxzV1Wp2RXQr5GP5A
though admittedly most of these are 8S and maybe they didn't think to label them "XSpeeds" initially.
but my Daytonas are not marked.

pstock

in any event, Bike Friday wrote me back with a link to a much much simpler explanation of compatibility (than those color coded charts)

https://bike.bikegremlin.com/1278/bi...compatibility/