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Can't get BB off, but its weird :|

Old 09-30-19, 08:34 AM
  #1  
chico1st
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Can't get BB off, but its weird :|

Hi there quick question about removing this bottom bracket.

Someone gave me an old super cycle which is in perfect shape except it has a loose cartridge bottom bracket (I have the cranks off and the spindles flop everywhere).


I can't get the cups off and I just wanted to check some stuff before I destroy my tools:
  • Everything on the bike is shimano so I assume the non-drive side cup needs to be turned clockwise to loosen it, drive side is counter clockwise.
  • I need to use a bottom bracket tool AND a 20spline tool (I have a BBT32) to remove the drive side pictured below
  • The splines on my bbt32 don't engage that deep (maybe 1mm). Is that normal?
  • The BBT32 kind of pops out when I push really hard but there isn't a good way to force it to stay inside the teeth
  • tightening or replacing the cartridge should solve the issue.

Images
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Old 09-30-19, 08:41 AM
  #2  
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Originally Posted by chico1st
Hi there quick question about removing this bottom bracket.

Someone gave me an old super cycle which is in perfect shape except it has a loose cartridge bottom bracket (I have the cranks off and the spindles flop everywhere).


I can't get the cups off and I just wanted to check some stuff before I destroy my tools:
  • Everything on the bike is shimano so I assume the non-drive side cup needs to be turned clockwise to loosen it, drive side is counter clockwise.
  • I need to use a bottom bracket tool AND a 20spline tool (I have a BBT32) to remove the drive side pictured below
  • The splines on my bbt32 don't engage that deep (maybe 1mm). Is that normal?
  • The BBT32 kind of pops out when I push really hard but there isn't a good way to force it to stay inside the teeth
  • tightening or replacing the cartridge should solve the issue.

Images
Are you sure?
Take off the lock ring first.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom
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Old 09-30-19, 10:29 AM
  #3  
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Originally Posted by chico1st
Hi there quick question about removing this bottom bracket.

Someone gave me an old super cycle which is in perfect shape except it has a loose cartridge bottom bracket (I have the cranks off and the spindles flop everywhere).


I can't get the cups off and I just wanted to check some stuff before I destroy my tools:
  • Everything on the bike is shimano so I assume the non-drive side cup needs to be turned clockwise to loosen it, drive side is counter clockwise.
  • I need to use a bottom bracket tool AND a 20spline tool (I have a BBT32) to remove the drive side pictured below
  • The splines on my bbt32 don't engage that deep (maybe 1mm). Is that normal?
  • The BBT32 kind of pops out when I push really hard but there isn't a good way to force it to stay inside the teeth
  • tightening or replacing the cartridge should solve the issue.

Images
Actually, the loosening direction is opposite to that. It is the drive side that is reverse threaded.
I have a tool that holds the BB tool in place for removal and installation, but there are hacks that you can use to do it without the tool. We just had a thread on that here recently.
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Old 09-30-19, 03:24 PM
  #4  
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Old 09-30-19, 06:03 PM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
Actually, the loosening direction is opposite to that. It is the drive side that is reverse threaded.
I have a tool that holds the BB tool in place for removal and installation, but there are hacks that you can use to do it without the tool. We just had a thread on that here recently.
Like this-
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Old 09-30-19, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Like this-
Oooo right on. OK that problem is annoying enough that I will wander around looking for some washers before I try this again

Thanks for the tip!
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Old 09-30-19, 08:50 PM
  #7  
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That's ingenious Bill. I would have just found a larger hammer...
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Old 09-30-19, 08:57 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by chico1st
Oooo right on. OK that problem is annoying enough that I will wander around looking for some washers before I try this again

Thanks for the tip!
Keep in mind the bolts are 8x1.0mm, not the more common 8x1.25mm.
Take a crank bolt with you when shopping. Sometimes a crank bolt will work, depending on which tool you have & spindle length.
With 2-3 bolts & a "few" 3/8" (or 8mm) washers, you can cover any length spindle. (or 1 really long bolt & a lot of washers.
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Old 09-30-19, 08:59 PM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by Bigbus
That's ingenious Bill. I would have just found a larger hammer...
Then "Like" it and make me famous.....
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Old 09-30-19, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Then "Like" it and make me famous.....
Are we happy now?
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Old 09-30-19, 09:22 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Bigbus
Are we happy now?
My mother would be proud!
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Old 09-30-19, 10:27 PM
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Bill's idea is a great one. The first law of BB removal though, is "Thou shalt maketh sureth that one knoweth the thread direction".

As a bit of practical advice, once you get your tool threaded onto the spindle, you can put the tool flats in a vice and use the frame as a wrench. Often easier.
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Old 10-01-19, 01:02 AM
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It's pretty normal to have a challenging time keeping the splines engaged on the BB tool. The above suggestion is good, you can also just put a big clamp over it all also.
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Old 10-01-19, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
Bill's idea is a great one. The first law of BB removal though, is "Thou shalt maketh sureth that one knoweth the thread direction".

As a bit of practical advice, once you get your tool threaded onto the spindle, you can put the tool flats in a vice and use the frame as a wrench. Often easier.


Reminded me of an attempt ~yr 2000 to remove a freewheel from a rear hub in place since ~1974. Used a vice to clamp the FW remover and grabbed the rims and
after carefully checking which direction to turn the wheel proceeded to shear off the prongs on the FW remover and permanently cant the FW body on the threads,
such that the FW would barely turn. Probably turned the wheel the wrong way, or the FW was really stuck. Still have the wheel as a memento.
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Old 10-01-19, 10:58 AM
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Golly, sch, nothing like that EVER happened to me...
I mean, I got all my wisdom from seeing OTHER people make mistakes.

_____________________________________
Experience is mistakes repeated many times....
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Old 10-01-19, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sch
Reminded me of an attempt ~yr 2000 to remove a freewheel from a rear hub in place since ~1974. Used a vice to clamp the FW remover and grabbed the rims and
after carefully checking which direction to turn the wheel proceeded to shear off the prongs on the FW remover and permanently cant the FW body on the threads,
such that the FW would barely turn. Probably turned the wheel the wrong way, or the FW was really stuck. Still have the wheel as a memento.
You don't need a vise to break prongs on a Sun Tour remover.
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Old 10-01-19, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
Bill's idea is a great one. The first law of BB removal though, is "Thou shalt maketh sureth that one knoweth the thread direction".

As a bit of practical advice, once you get your tool threaded onto the spindle, you can put the tool flats in a vice and use the frame as a wrench. Often easier.
That was my standard practice with my old UO-8 (except the DS cup had flats, not the splines). I'd hang the frame from the ceiling, grab the cup flats in the vice and turn (both to install and remove). French threads, ie self-loosening if they were not very tight. Quite and operation.
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Old 10-01-19, 11:43 AM
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Leverage is your friend. A big bar or extender from a spanner or socket drive will help enormously. A bit of penetrating fluid on the joints might be of use also.
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Old 10-02-19, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz
Experience is mistakes repeated many times....
A variation is: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement".
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Old 10-02-19, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
A variation is: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement".
My motto right there.
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Old 10-02-19, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
A variation is: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement".
Love this. Definitely applicable in my diy bike work.
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Old 10-02-19, 10:16 AM
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Another wise man once said, "He don't know nothin' cause he never done nothin'."
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Old 10-02-19, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
Actually, the loosening direction is opposite to that. It is the drive side that is reverse threaded.
+1
Back when I still had to think about it, my ”clue” was that with the wheels on the ground, and gravity as your helper, the wrench should point to the rear for loosening pedals, and forward for loosening BBs.
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
I have a tool that holds the BB tool in place for removal and installation, but there are hacks that you can use to do it without the tool. We just had a thread on that here recently.
I’ve looked a bit for a long enough bolt with the right thread, but so far I’ve settled for a big C-clamp.
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Old 10-02-19, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
A variation is: "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement".
Aha. I should be gaining experience at a record rate, then.
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Old 10-02-19, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dabac
.......I’ve looked a bit for a long enough bolt with the right thread, but so far I’ve settled for a big C-clamp.
8X1.0mm. I got mine at an an "older style" auto parts store with a good fastener selection.
The more common size is 8x1.25mm.
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