Tested: Electric Folder
04-23-19, 02:56 PM
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Tested: Electric Folder
A friend at work got an electric folding bike and has started commuting with it once in a while, and let me borrow it overnight to try it out on a ride home and back. Very interesting experience.
Ergonomics were not good for me. The brakes (or at least the levers) seemed quite crappy and sloppy; I've had more secure-feeling V-braking from cheap mtbs, but they got the job done. The narrow bars and near-zero rake left the steering very squirrely. I also felt like I had to stick my elbows out weirdly to get my hands comfortable on the grips. The wheels are a TINY 14", which makes every driveway lip an adventure. The upright weight distribution plus electric power also made the front wheel want to pop up sometimes.
But it was fun to experiment with the electric. It has a throttle that will take me (235lb) to probably 15mph on the flat, but apart from few-second experiments, I always used the pedal assist. They solved the max speed issue by virtue of the fact that the bike is a single-speed, and you spin out at less than 20mph.
It has a built-in headlight, which is a nice touch, but why not also a rear blinker? Also a little 'horn' (more like an electronic buzz) that I had no call to use. I guess it could be useful on MUPs or something.
We were having dinner at my parents' that night, so I rode there after work, and my parents and my wife and 2 kids all tried it out, and thought it was pretty cool. They live on a pretty big hill, and have only ever been able to ride up to their house a few times, very arduously serpentine, but my dad was able to get up the hill easily pedaling (even coasting up slowly on full-throttle).
The next morning I rode with my (full-size) son to school, and then to work. I rode the electric half-way to school, he was on a regular road bike, and for the first couple miles on a gentle downhill (half percent?) I had trouble keeping up with him, because I had to spin like crazy and he could just change gears and comfortably cruise at like 17-18mph. The next uphill section I had the advantage.
Then we switched bikes. I immediately felt more comfortable, but very quickly got the impression something was wrong with the road bike. I even jumped off it to double-check the brakes weren't rubbing or something. But it was just that I had adapted to the electric assist and didn't realize how much easier it was making it for me.
After 7 mi to school I proceeded another 7mi to work on the electric, and got more and more uncomfortable. At the end though, it was nice to breeze up a huge hill that usually I crawl up at 3mph in my granny gear (34x32).
Hard to tell exactly how much battery was used, it has 3 lights 'full/half/empty'. My friend gave it to me completely full, I rode it about 16mi. Near the end when it was hauling my bulk up that hill, it had the 'empty' light on, but after the hill when it wasn't working so hard it said 'half'. So maybe it used 60-70% of the battery to go ~16mi? With a pretty heavy rider and some pretty hilly terrain.
That bike apparently costs $1200. But this apparent clone costs only $500 (and this $500 electric looks even cooler -- but is less foldy)
Would I buy an electric? Probably never that one, but maybe someday a full-size bike that's decently comfortable. Today though, I am not in need of less exercise, so I'll stick with leg power for now.
Ergonomics were not good for me. The brakes (or at least the levers) seemed quite crappy and sloppy; I've had more secure-feeling V-braking from cheap mtbs, but they got the job done. The narrow bars and near-zero rake left the steering very squirrely. I also felt like I had to stick my elbows out weirdly to get my hands comfortable on the grips. The wheels are a TINY 14", which makes every driveway lip an adventure. The upright weight distribution plus electric power also made the front wheel want to pop up sometimes.
But it was fun to experiment with the electric. It has a throttle that will take me (235lb) to probably 15mph on the flat, but apart from few-second experiments, I always used the pedal assist. They solved the max speed issue by virtue of the fact that the bike is a single-speed, and you spin out at less than 20mph.
It has a built-in headlight, which is a nice touch, but why not also a rear blinker? Also a little 'horn' (more like an electronic buzz) that I had no call to use. I guess it could be useful on MUPs or something.
We were having dinner at my parents' that night, so I rode there after work, and my parents and my wife and 2 kids all tried it out, and thought it was pretty cool. They live on a pretty big hill, and have only ever been able to ride up to their house a few times, very arduously serpentine, but my dad was able to get up the hill easily pedaling (even coasting up slowly on full-throttle).
The next morning I rode with my (full-size) son to school, and then to work. I rode the electric half-way to school, he was on a regular road bike, and for the first couple miles on a gentle downhill (half percent?) I had trouble keeping up with him, because I had to spin like crazy and he could just change gears and comfortably cruise at like 17-18mph. The next uphill section I had the advantage.
Then we switched bikes. I immediately felt more comfortable, but very quickly got the impression something was wrong with the road bike. I even jumped off it to double-check the brakes weren't rubbing or something. But it was just that I had adapted to the electric assist and didn't realize how much easier it was making it for me.
After 7 mi to school I proceeded another 7mi to work on the electric, and got more and more uncomfortable. At the end though, it was nice to breeze up a huge hill that usually I crawl up at 3mph in my granny gear (34x32).
Hard to tell exactly how much battery was used, it has 3 lights 'full/half/empty'. My friend gave it to me completely full, I rode it about 16mi. Near the end when it was hauling my bulk up that hill, it had the 'empty' light on, but after the hill when it wasn't working so hard it said 'half'. So maybe it used 60-70% of the battery to go ~16mi? With a pretty heavy rider and some pretty hilly terrain.
That bike apparently costs $1200. But this apparent clone costs only $500 (and this $500 electric looks even cooler -- but is less foldy)
Would I buy an electric? Probably never that one, but maybe someday a full-size bike that's decently comfortable. Today though, I am not in need of less exercise, so I'll stick with leg power for now.
04-23-19, 07:44 PM
#2
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A friend at work got an electric folding bike and has started commuting with it once in a while, and let me borrow it overnight to try it out on a ride home and back. Very interesting experience.
Ergonomics were not good for me. The brakes (or at least the levers) seemed quite crappy and sloppy; I've had more secure-feeling V-braking from cheap mtbs, but they got the job done. The narrow bars and near-zero rake left the steering very squirrely. I also felt like I had to stick my elbows out weirdly to get my hands comfortable on the grips. The wheels are a TINY 14", which makes every driveway lip an adventure. The upright weight distribution plus electric power also made the front wheel want to pop up sometimes.
But it was fun to experiment with the electric. It has a throttle that will take me (235lb) to probably 15mph on the flat, but apart from few-second experiments, I always used the pedal assist. They solved the max speed issue by virtue of the fact that the bike is a single-speed, and you spin out at less than 20mph.
It has a built-in headlight, which is a nice touch, but why not also a rear blinker? Also a little 'horn' (more like an electronic buzz) that I had no call to use. I guess it could be useful on MUPs or something.
We were having dinner at my parents' that night, so I rode there after work, and my parents and my wife and 2 kids all tried it out, and thought it was pretty cool. They live on a pretty big hill, and have only ever been able to ride up to their house a few times, very arduously serpentine, but my dad was able to get up the hill easily pedaling (even coasting up slowly on full-throttle).
The next morning I rode with my (full-size) son to school, and then to work. I rode the electric half-way to school, he was on a regular road bike, and for the first couple miles on a gentle downhill (half percent?) I had trouble keeping up with him, because I had to spin like crazy and he could just change gears and comfortably cruise at like 17-18mph. The next uphill section I had the advantage.
Then we switched bikes. I immediately felt more comfortable, but very quickly got the impression something was wrong with the road bike. I even jumped off it to double-check the brakes weren't rubbing or something. But it was just that I had adapted to the electric assist and didn't realize how much easier it was making it for me.
After 7 mi to school I proceeded another 7mi to work on the electric, and got more and more uncomfortable. At the end though, it was nice to breeze up a huge hill that usually I crawl up at 3mph in my granny gear (34x32).
Hard to tell exactly how much battery was used, it has 3 lights 'full/half/empty'. My friend gave it to me completely full, I rode it about 16mi. Near the end when it was hauling my bulk up that hill, it had the 'empty' light on, but after the hill when it wasn't working so hard it said 'half'. So maybe it used 60-70% of the battery to go ~16mi? With a pretty heavy rider and some pretty hilly terrain.
That bike apparently costs $1200. But this apparent clone costs only $500 (and this $500 electric looks even cooler -- but is less foldy)
Would I buy an electric? Probably never that one, but maybe someday a full-size bike that's decently comfortable. Today though, I am not in need of less exercise, so I'll stick with leg power for now.
Ergonomics were not good for me. The brakes (or at least the levers) seemed quite crappy and sloppy; I've had more secure-feeling V-braking from cheap mtbs, but they got the job done. The narrow bars and near-zero rake left the steering very squirrely. I also felt like I had to stick my elbows out weirdly to get my hands comfortable on the grips. The wheels are a TINY 14", which makes every driveway lip an adventure. The upright weight distribution plus electric power also made the front wheel want to pop up sometimes.
But it was fun to experiment with the electric. It has a throttle that will take me (235lb) to probably 15mph on the flat, but apart from few-second experiments, I always used the pedal assist. They solved the max speed issue by virtue of the fact that the bike is a single-speed, and you spin out at less than 20mph.
It has a built-in headlight, which is a nice touch, but why not also a rear blinker? Also a little 'horn' (more like an electronic buzz) that I had no call to use. I guess it could be useful on MUPs or something.
We were having dinner at my parents' that night, so I rode there after work, and my parents and my wife and 2 kids all tried it out, and thought it was pretty cool. They live on a pretty big hill, and have only ever been able to ride up to their house a few times, very arduously serpentine, but my dad was able to get up the hill easily pedaling (even coasting up slowly on full-throttle).
The next morning I rode with my (full-size) son to school, and then to work. I rode the electric half-way to school, he was on a regular road bike, and for the first couple miles on a gentle downhill (half percent?) I had trouble keeping up with him, because I had to spin like crazy and he could just change gears and comfortably cruise at like 17-18mph. The next uphill section I had the advantage.
Then we switched bikes. I immediately felt more comfortable, but very quickly got the impression something was wrong with the road bike. I even jumped off it to double-check the brakes weren't rubbing or something. But it was just that I had adapted to the electric assist and didn't realize how much easier it was making it for me.
After 7 mi to school I proceeded another 7mi to work on the electric, and got more and more uncomfortable. At the end though, it was nice to breeze up a huge hill that usually I crawl up at 3mph in my granny gear (34x32).
Hard to tell exactly how much battery was used, it has 3 lights 'full/half/empty'. My friend gave it to me completely full, I rode it about 16mi. Near the end when it was hauling my bulk up that hill, it had the 'empty' light on, but after the hill when it wasn't working so hard it said 'half'. So maybe it used 60-70% of the battery to go ~16mi? With a pretty heavy rider and some pretty hilly terrain.
That bike apparently costs $1200. But this apparent clone costs only $500 (and this $500 electric looks even cooler -- but is less foldy)
Would I buy an electric? Probably never that one, but maybe someday a full-size bike that's decently comfortable. Today though, I am not in need of less exercise, so I'll stick with leg power for now.
04-24-19, 10:19 AM
#3
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lol so true! On this thing, pedaling on the flat you can hear the motor assisting you, and the first few times if you pay attention you can feel it assisting you, but you get so used to it you forget how much it's doing. Going from an easy pedal to a coast so the assist cuts out felt like feathering the brakes
04-24-19, 12:16 PM
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A friend at work got an electric folding bike and has started commuting with it once in a while, and let me borrow it overnight to try it out on a ride home and back. Very interesting experience.
But it was fun to experiment with the electric. It has a throttle that will take me (235lb) to probably 15mph on the flat, but apart from few-second experiments, I always used the pedal assist.
Then we switched bikes. I immediately felt more comfortable, but very quickly got the impression something was wrong with the road bike. I even jumped off it to double-check the brakes weren't rubbing or something. But it was just that I had adapted to the electric assist and didn't realize how much easier it was making it for me.
But it was fun to experiment with the electric. It has a throttle that will take me (235lb) to probably 15mph on the flat, but apart from few-second experiments, I always used the pedal assist.
Then we switched bikes. I immediately felt more comfortable, but very quickly got the impression something was wrong with the road bike. I even jumped off it to double-check the brakes weren't rubbing or something. But it was just that I had adapted to the electric assist and didn't realize how much easier it was making it for me.
04-24-19, 12:46 PM
#5
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I recommend the experiment to anybody; if you can get your hands on an electric bike to borrow, take it and a bike you're familiar with to a park or something with a flat loop, do one lap on your bike, then one lap on the electric, then hop back onto your bike for a 3rd lap, and pay attention to how the bike feels after each transition. Probably also time yourself, try to expend the same effort.
04-24-19, 01:17 PM
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I recommend the experiment to anybody; if you can get your hands on an electric bike to borrow, take it and a bike you're familiar with to a park or something with a flat loop, do one lap on your bike, then one lap on the electric, then hop back onto your bike for a 3rd lap, and pay attention to how the bike feels after each transition. Probably also time yourself, try to expend the same effort.
04-24-19, 02:45 PM
#7
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Because it's interesting and useful to realize how quickly the body and senses adapt to new environments. Electric-assist very quickly becomes the new normal, so that a regular bike feels unbearably sluggish. For people looking into ebikes, it would be good to understand this. For people not looking into ebikes, it could be another reason they can use when humblebragging about never wanting to 'cheat' with an ebike.
04-24-19, 02:57 PM
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Because it's interesting and useful to realize how quickly the body and senses adapt to new environments. Electric-assist very quickly becomes the new normal, so that a regular bike feels unbearably sluggish. For people looking into ebikes, it would be good to understand this. For people not looking into ebikes, it could be another reason they can use when humblebragging about never wanting to 'cheat' with an ebike.
04-24-19, 03:56 PM
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you can't pedal a motorcycle, but if you keep your hand off the ebike throttle and just use it as pedal-assist (like I did), your body adapts to the feedback it receives from the output it gives. If you just sit still on the ebike and use the throttle, then yes, the experiment would be pointless.
04-24-19, 07:16 PM
#10
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you can't pedal a motorcycle, but if you keep your hand off the ebike throttle and just use it as pedal-assist (like I did), your body adapts to the feedback it receives from the output it gives. If you just sit still on the ebike and use the throttle, then yes, the experiment would be pointless.
and guess what again, anyone who does seem to care doesn't seem to understand the "difference" between "having to pedal" to get anywhere or using a throttle and not "needing to pedal".... it's all the same to them, as soon as you have a "motor"... 
04-25-19, 09:22 AM
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? I don't get it; I'm talking about an experiment to examine the personal sensation of switching between normal and electric-assist bikes
Are you saying nobody cares about electric-motorized vs pedal-assist? Or nobody cares about electric vs normal bikes?
Maybe you haven't been able to get your point across for 6 years because you haven't been communicating clearly
Are you saying nobody cares about electric-motorized vs pedal-assist? Or nobody cares about electric vs normal bikes?
Maybe you haven't been able to get your point across for 6 years because you haven't been communicating clearly
04-25-19, 09:25 AM
#12
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You can pedal a Moped, in fact you pedal it to get it started (back wheel off the ground.. )
...
...
04-25-19, 10:23 AM
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I'd consider myself a borderline e-bike hater. I think pedal assist is nice for older people, people with disabilities, or people with long or challenging commutes that either couldn't make it or would be a sweaty mess without it. I think that's fine, especially with a fairly low speed limit.
Pure throttle? Nah. Then it's just an electric scooter, and you need to be in the street with the rest of the motorized traffic. And you might as well dispense with the bicycle like layout and go to a scooter layout (step through, smaller, wider wheels, better brakes...).
Pedal assist that gets you going faster than 15 or so MPH is borderline. Pedal assist yahoos weaving in and out of regular riders in bike lanes, or seeming to act as if they are riding fast through some sort of superior effort (as you mentioned, riders can quickly forget how much of the effort is coming from the assist) are pretty much ruining it for the rest of them.
Originally Posted by fietsbob
You can pedal a Moped, in fact you pedal it to get it started (back wheel off the ground.. )
04-25-19, 11:09 AM
#14
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Whatever happened to mopeds? I can't even remember the last time I saw one. Seems like that niche was taken over by 49cc 'scooters'.
I'd put the threshold for pedal assist closer to 20mph, but I generally agree. I think the point of pedal assist is for people to tackle longer bike-commutes than they have the time/stamina for on a regular bike. For 11mi rt I'm fine on my own power, but if for some reason I had to take a job more like 10mi one-way, I'd give an electric bike serious consideration.
Based on my overnight road test, I would be a pedal-assist user, not a throttle-coaster. But who knows, maybe that would wear off and I'd just grow lazy.
I'd put the threshold for pedal assist closer to 20mph, but I generally agree. I think the point of pedal assist is for people to tackle longer bike-commutes than they have the time/stamina for on a regular bike. For 11mi rt I'm fine on my own power, but if for some reason I had to take a job more like 10mi one-way, I'd give an electric bike serious consideration.
Based on my overnight road test, I would be a pedal-assist user, not a throttle-coaster. But who knows, maybe that would wear off and I'd just grow lazy.
04-25-19, 12:37 PM
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Whatever happened to mopeds? I can't even remember the last time I saw one. Seems like that niche was taken over by 49cc 'scooters'.
I'd put the threshold for pedal assist closer to 20mph, but I generally agree. I think the point of pedal assist is for people to tackle longer bike-commutes than they have the time/stamina for on a regular bike. For 11mi rt I'm fine on my own power, but if for some reason I had to take a job more like 10mi one-way, I'd give an electric bike serious consideration. Based on my overnight road test, I would be a pedal-assist user, not a throttle-coaster. But who knows, maybe that would wear off and I'd just grow lazy.
I'd put the threshold for pedal assist closer to 20mph, but I generally agree. I think the point of pedal assist is for people to tackle longer bike-commutes than they have the time/stamina for on a regular bike. For 11mi rt I'm fine on my own power, but if for some reason I had to take a job more like 10mi one-way, I'd give an electric bike serious consideration. Based on my overnight road test, I would be a pedal-assist user, not a throttle-coaster. But who knows, maybe that would wear off and I'd just grow lazy.
I actually like the Trek Crossrip Electric. I am not a fan of the bikes that don't look like a regular bike..
04-25-19, 01:06 PM
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Hey, I'm not knocking anybody that can bike longer commutes than me. Good on ya!
For me, if I push hard I'm on the bike 30min in the morning. And that's a big IF, because I just can't motivate myself to push hard. I always revert to plodding along at 'taking a walk' effort levels and enjoying my podcasts, and taking about 40min to ride to work, which is about all the time I'm willing to spend.
For me, if I push hard I'm on the bike 30min in the morning. And that's a big IF, because I just can't motivate myself to push hard. I always revert to plodding along at 'taking a walk' effort levels and enjoying my podcasts, and taking about 40min to ride to work, which is about all the time I'm willing to spend.
04-25-19, 06:22 PM
#17
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I think he is trying to say that the e-bike haters generally don't discriminate between pedal assist and pure throttle.
I'd consider myself a borderline e-bike hater. I think pedal assist is nice for older people, people with disabilities, or people with long or challenging commutes that either couldn't make it or would be a sweaty mess without it. I think that's fine, especially with a fairly low speed limit.
Pure throttle? Nah. Then it's just an electric scooter, and you need to be in the street with the rest of the motorized traffic. And you might as well dispense with the bicycle like layout and go to a scooter layout (step through, smaller, wider wheels, better brakes...).
Pedal assist that gets you going faster than 15 or so MPH is borderline. Pedal assist yahoos weaving in and out of regular riders in bike lanes, or seeming to act as if they are riding fast through some sort of superior effort (as you mentioned, riders can quickly forget how much of the effort is coming from the assist) are pretty much ruining it for the rest of them.
Nah, that's for punks. My ex-gf used to pedal her Piaggio Ciao about 5 or 10 yards/meters to start her engine. And, BTW, those Ciaos got about 140mpg, which is probably competitive with e-bikes.
I'd consider myself a borderline e-bike hater. I think pedal assist is nice for older people, people with disabilities, or people with long or challenging commutes that either couldn't make it or would be a sweaty mess without it. I think that's fine, especially with a fairly low speed limit.
Pure throttle? Nah. Then it's just an electric scooter, and you need to be in the street with the rest of the motorized traffic. And you might as well dispense with the bicycle like layout and go to a scooter layout (step through, smaller, wider wheels, better brakes...).
Pedal assist that gets you going faster than 15 or so MPH is borderline. Pedal assist yahoos weaving in and out of regular riders in bike lanes, or seeming to act as if they are riding fast through some sort of superior effort (as you mentioned, riders can quickly forget how much of the effort is coming from the assist) are pretty much ruining it for the rest of them.
Nah, that's for punks. My ex-gf used to pedal her Piaggio Ciao about 5 or 10 yards/meters to start her engine. And, BTW, those Ciaos got about 140mpg, which is probably competitive with e-bikes.
Last edited by 350htrr; 04-25-19 at 07:39 PM.
04-26-19, 06:40 AM
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Only ebikers would suggest that putting a three speed hub and brakes on your bike are akin to putting a motor on your bike. Weird.
04-26-19, 07:49 AM
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04-29-19, 02:31 PM
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WOW, someone who actually, understands... Maybe,... Hopefully, … ????… Anyway… Pedaling and throttle do NOT mix, IMO... BUT wait a minute… some people also think that any kind of "assist " is wrong... BUT, where does that stop...??? 3 speeds, 10 speeds, 27 speeds,... really, ??? anything, that helps you get up that hill IS, an "assist", whether it's "only" a "mechanical gearing assist", or, an E-Motor, assist... IT'S AN ASSIST.... IMO... You want to ride a bicycle without an "assist", ride a fixie, and come back on here, and say how "great" it is, riding that fixie, compered to a 27 speed,... IMO...
