AlanK

Info for most 2019 touring bikes seems to be out now. I really like the Giramondo. Upgrading the brakes to TRP Spyre is a major improvement, but I'm a little disappointed it still has mediocre 32-hole wheels, and the wide tires seem more well-suited for off-road rather than all around touring.

Overall though it seems like a very good touring bike and offers great value for the price:

https://masibikes.com/collections/ad...ondo-700c-2019

mstateglfr 

What makes the wheels mediocre?
I know nothing about the rims and they don't mention the hubs or spokes.
not sure what makes them mediocre as the description seems incomplete to me.

looks like a solid bike for the price. Really similar to last year's REI coop adv 3.1 when it was still 700c wheels and a 3x crank.

AlanK

The rims appear to be the same Brev M they used last year. 32-spoke wheels are less durable and not as well suited for touring as 36-spokes. I've also read the wheels on the 2018 model need to be trued more frequently than is normal for touring bikes. They're probably fine for commuting and general riding, but I'd get a more suitable wheel set for touring.

That they neglect to mention a few details about the components indicates they're probably mediocre. I'm not saying it's a bad bike or anything (again, it's a great value), and if you won't be touring right away it'd be a top contender, but right now I'd be more inclined to get a Kona Sutra because it's better spec'd.

Spoonrobot 

They're mediocre because they weigh so much but do not provide any additional strength compared to a lighter, more well-designed set. About par for the course, most stock wheels are poorly designed to meet pricepoint.

The 650b version of that wheelset weighed in at 1160 grams for the front wheel and 1360 gram for the rear - 5.5 pounds. I would expect the 700c version to be at least 150 grams heavier.

AlanK

Exactly. While the Tubus racks are first rate, to keep it at a certain price-point they had to compromise something and it's clearly the wheels. Last year both the wheels and brakes left something to be desired. This year the brakes are great, which is a smart move IMO even if it's $100 more this year.

They should have upgraded the wheels and added another $100 to the price. With better wheels it would cost about $1500 and wouldn't need any major upgrades. I'm considering the Giramondo and the Kona Sutra. Right now I'm more inclined towards the Sutra because it's pretty much ready as stocked. While the cranks are a bit too large for touring (the gearing on the Giramondo is better for touring IMO), they're fine for all-around riding.

I think both bikes are fine to start out with as general-purpose bikes. The Giramondo needs a better wheel-set for touring and the Sutra needs smaller chain-rings (cheaper and easier to replace than a new wheel-set), so I guess it boils down to intent and preferences.

mstateglfr 

Still not sure what makes the wheelset mediocre. Ive since learned that the rims are heavy. Ok...but thst doesnt make for a mediocre wheelset. And yes the bike has 32mm spokes, but at face value thst also doesny make for a mediocre wheelset.

not looking to argue, just not sure why thsts a glaring weakness compared to all other bikes in this price point.

I would properly tension and true any wheelset in this price range since they will all be machine built and were selected to meet a price point instead of selected for quality and performance.

the Sutra wheels have 36 spokes, but otherwise are just plain guage spokes and generic formula hubs laced to a 500+g rim.

I dont even know how one looks up the weight of the Masi rim as its basically unlabeled. Brev m is just the in-house Masi brand. Anyone have a link to the rims?


anyways, I'm sure the masi wheels would need to be worked on by a competent wheelbuilder. But once thsts done, a 32h wheel which is properly tensioned and true would most likely be fine for 85% of people buying that bike.

its already been mentioned that wheelsets are a common place to skimp in order to meet a price point. Any wheels that are machine built with 500ish gram rims, generic hubs, and straight spokes is in the same boat for me. I don't really parse quality past that.

cool talk.

J.Higgins 

Notice that it comes with the same saddle as your post about the Marrakesh? Looks like the same bike for $100 less. Hmmm...

mstateglfr 

same bike?

different speeds, shifters, front derailleurs, rear derailleurs, hubs, rims, cranksets, brakes, brake levers, handlebars, tires, stems, seatposts, cassettes, and more.

this doesnt even address the visual geometry differences...which are significant.

These aren't even close to looking like the same bike.

AlanK

Generic Formula hubs? You don't know much about hubs do you? While not top of the line, the Formula hubs on the Sutra are among the best in their price-range. They're reliable and perform very well. The Giramondo description doesn't even mention the hubs: we don't know what they are, if they're TA or QR, so if anything the Giramondo seems to have generic no-name hubs.

Once broken in 36 spoke wheels seldom need truing unless they undergo arduous conditions. While not top of the line the Sutra wheels are definitely better.

AlanK

Exactly. NoControl seems like an ideologue who also seems like a bit of a troll. While I think they're both great bikes for the price, there are significant differences.

The Giramondo has a longer wheel-base and a higher bottom bracket, so it has more clearance but is probably less nimble The Giramondo is more well-suited for unpaved roads and off-road type riding while the Marrakesh is better for roads (both paved and not) and a dedicated touring bike.

mstateglfr 

1- I know plenty about hubs. I build my wheels and geek on components(like many here). Structure of hubs both loose ball and cartridge, pawls, points of engagement, etc etc.

2- I have no idea what type of formula hubs are on the bike. It's because the type isnt specified. You say they perform well and are among the best in their price range...but I have no idea how that can be known from the bike page.
they may be awesome, but when the model/details arent listed, they are labeled as generic because there are no specifics.

3- the giramondo hubs are absolutely generic. For sure. They are QR based on the picture, for what its worth.

4- this is way more disagreeing thst I planned to due today and this spent up all my theoretical arguing for the next week.
32h wheels thst are well built should be perfectly fine for most all riding the giramondo will ever see. Overspeccing and overbuilding is often complained about and when a company doesnt overbuild or overspec, there is complaining.
damned either way as you can't please everyone. Stock builds that work for the super majority of riding is typically a smart decision.


I'm out on this.

AlanK

Good point. I would hazard to guess most production touring bikes are only see occasional loaded touring. Most potential customers use them for a combination of commuting, recreation and touring, so yeah, a general purpose wheel-set is fine for this. I'm also inclined to favor TA over QR since TA are more durable, but it's not that important.

You're right about the Formula hubs being unspecified, but they don't make many 36-h options, unless Kona switch to 32-h, which would make me look and feel pretty stupid.

Hmm... I just compared the 700c and 27.5 versions of the Giramondo. The 27.5 version doesn't include racks, but it's only $50 less. It seems to have significantly better tires, but other than that the two models seem to be spec'd the same. Considering it doesn't have racks, I wonder why the 27.5 is essentially the same price? Are the tires really that much better/more expensive?

intransit1217

I know I’m late to the party here but I should *weigh* in on this.

as an owner of a -17 Giramondo AND now a -17 Giramondo 650, I can say for certain the stock wheels on the 700c are inadequate. Granted, I’m a Clyde, but mine popped spokes within 30 days. I spent just under 400 for a pair of machine built mavic rims, eyeletted, 36 hole dt spoked, deore hubbed wheels. I loaded the bike over 300 lbs for a short tour and no wheel issues at all. The frame is a bit noodley, but still a solid descender.

The 650 are tubeless ready so that’s a plus. Also, mine came equipped with 2.1 kenda slant sixes. (Insert cuss rant here) . I just went tubeless wtb resolute 42mm. And it’s fast again!

I’ll let you know of any unexpected wheel issues but I’m not anticipating any at this point. HTH!

AlanK

Is that a mistype or are you including your own weight? Maybe you meant 30 lbs? Maybe some cargo bikes can carry 300 lbs of gear in addition to the rider, but just barely. I don't know of any touring bikes that can, nor would they need to.

intransit1217

Yes that included my 250 lb butt. Still, I was well over the three hundred mark. Trek has a 275 limit on all their bikes. 275. For the 920. Pfff.

Caliwild

Looks like a good deal on one right now...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-2019-M...ry!90017!US!-1

AlanK

Even though it's lightly used the asking price is only about $200 less than the new price, which seems a bit steep, though it includes what appears to be a nice rear-rack.

The 2020 specs should be out within the next couple months, so there will probably many 2019 models on sale fairly soon.

Caliwild

And what looks like a Portland Design Works rear light... And upgraded tires...

mstateglfr 

Really pushing this bike hard. 2 different subforums and both have comments on the lack of this being worth mentioning.

At least the Ebay link has more pics. Didnt realize the paint is white fleck- that's kinda neat.

How are you able to tell that's a Portland design works light? Are they distinct in design from most every other clip on tail light?

Caliwild

I have that same light! Love it...