Noctilux.95

I'd like to dip my feet in the gravel segment. Been looking at the beautiful Basso Palta and Open U.P gravel frames with plans to build them with a 1X drivetrain, and 700c wheels with at least 40mm gravel tires. But the thought of spending close to $3K for a frame does not appeal to me right now. I was looking at some cool looking Chinese gravel frames on weightweenie site that were built with high quality components. So anyone here with experience with these frames?

Elvo

Gravel Cycling Forum | Riding Gravel

gus6464

Many people at riding gravel have the Carbonda CFR 505 and 696. They will even do custom paint jobs for not a ton of money with Pantone color codes.

Noctilux.95

Yeah I noticed that. Do you happen to know what kind of pricing on the custom paint?

gus6464

I have been talking to them about a 696 and I was quoted $70 for one color. If I want 2 colors it's $130. I have seen some builds at riding gravel with 2 color fades and they look really good.

Hiro11

Whenever I add up the cost of building up an open mold frames, they never really makes sense if you're purchasing parts at retail. Once you add up the cost of everything (including bar tape, cables, tires, tubes, labor etc), the savings vs. just going to buy a Checkpoint or similar isn't as large as it would seem. Also, add in lack of support, the hassle of finding the correct BB/ brake adapters/ thru axles, the fact that many open mold frames have bad internal routing etc... it's kind of a pain. The exception is if you already have all of the parts that will fit and are just swapping frames, then the math can be very different.

gus6464

Who pays retail for parts?

Marcus_Ti

Anyone who buys SRAM. Anyone who buys Campagnolo, I believe. Anyone who buys Speedplay....Shimano probably isn't far behind. Others as well ofc.


Lots of bike part companies have moved, or are presently moving, to MAP=MSRP models.

gus6464

Campy can be purchased for lower than MSRP from pretty much any EU site.

Shimano will never go MAP because they gain nothing from it. The sheer amount of volume they move at retail eclipses any gains SRAM can have in the OEM market so they are not going to shoot themselves in the foot. Also, MAP is pretty much an American thing. For example taking a look at the wwc anniversary sale coupon exclusion.
https://help.worldwidecyclery.com/hc...iscount-codes-

Every company on the list for the single exception of Campy is a US company. Also, SRAM cannot enforce MAP outside of the US which is why the EU sites just won't ship SRAM products to the US but everyone else can buy at lower prices. There have been proposals introduced in the EU to make MAP enforceable but they never pass so it effectively makes MAP illegal there. What SRAM has done to get around it is just ask the retailers to not ship to the US.

Marcus_Ti

I'd have sworn Campagnolo changed their gray-market sales policies. Oh well.

In any case...also Cane Creek. Also DT Swiss... Also Jagwire....Also FSA, CateEye, HED Cycling, Saris, Todson (Topeak), Planet Bike, LOOK, Connex, Michelin , Limar, Selle Anatomica, Panaracer, Crankbrothers, CeramicSpeed(duh)....and the list keeps going...

Odds are if you don't buy a bike part through gray-market channels (as in your Campagnolo example)--you're paying MAP/MSRP.

gus6464

Yes but once again everything you are citing is US only. It's illegal everywhere else. Now the discussion of whether buying from EU is gray market or not is a whole other story. These are bike parts we are talking about, they either work or they don't. In the case of not working, I have had no issues with contacting the EU vendors and getting things resolved. I have never sent in a bike part for "warranty" coverage. I know Shimano doesn't care for example, as a friend sent in a shifter he bought at ribble to their repair facility in CA and they took care of him within the warranty.

Marcus_Ti

A) This is a supermajority US user/poster forum. So yes, I have US blinders WRT import/retail policy on. You're in the USA too--if you'd like to discuss import/retail law in China, or Qatar, or Romania, feel free...but for most posting here it is irrelevant.

B) I've had to RMA parts overseas on gray-market "saving money" shenanigans. In CampagnoloUSA's case they would not even talk to me. Eventually a Campag tech here on BF told me to go to my retailer..luckily Ribble did return my correspondence. Of course getting RMA service ended up taking almost 2 calendar months (told me to send an FD back to the UK)....at which point I'd found, on a fluke pricing error, a replacement part on Amazon for pennies on the dollar (less than I'd paid for RMA shipping).

Buying parts in the USA...unless you're dodging tariffs (presuming even for discussion you fly under all the new tariff policies)...you're probably paying retail. Most all companies have MSRP/MAP here, now.

Noctilux.95

I find it ironic companies who go abroad for cheap labor don't want their customers to find better deals by doing the same. I also find it ironic dealers who are recentful of customers who buy from abroad have no issue selling Specialized and Trek who build all their bikes abroad. BTW, you can still buy Shimano and Campy from Merlin Cycles in the UK. My Campy Bora Ultra wheel was purchased from Merlins and was replaced under warranty through Campy USA. I also contacted Shimano and confirmed they would warranty any of their components purchased from a legit retailer abroad. And BTW, F*** Sram!

Noctilux.95

I picked up Campagnolo Super Record 12-speed groupset on black Friday special for $1888! It was $3200 at my boutique bike shop. In all fairness they did offer an Italian espresso free of charge.

gus6464

Exactly. I love it when companies use the MAP policy as if they're trying to help the consumer when in reality it's the exact opposite. I refuse to buy anything SRAM unless it came with the bike because of their BS policies. And then if the stuff breaks or wears out, I will replace it with Shimano.

Noctilux.95

Sram needs to work on their products reliability more than policing their products pricing.

fietsbob

Taiwan makes a lot of really nice frames, and most of the bike brands go there ..

u235

Goes both ways.. My gravel bike has very specific parts on it, not expensive top of the line by any means but very specific size/function parts I would want on any "new bike". Assuming my current bike got stolen or something and I bought new.
A 165mm compact crank, 34 cassette, 2x10 speed is almost a thing of the past on new bikes so I would go a 1x or 2x11 but needs to be a 165 crank and no doubt I'd end up buying a second front ring unless I got really lucky. I like 440 freakishly wide flared bars (Venturemax in my case), bars on my size gravel bike are typically compact slight flare 420 with a stem to short, no way I'm keeping those. I am picky about my bar tapes (don't like cork etc), my seat, Shimano touring dual sided pedals. Most bike are absent seat/pedals anyway so no takeoff waste there. Must be tubeless and I am picky about tires. Highly desire hyd or hybrid HY/RD. So in the end... I doubt I'd find "that bike" and end up swapping a bunch of stuff anyway. Maybe not the frame, fork, cables, seat post, headset, stem (maybe) but a lot of others. In the end. Is one route more than the other? Don't know. In theory you could sell or use your takeoffs on N+1 but that never seems to work out for me.
If you can find a bike that you don't have to compromise what you want, or you can get used to the difference and or requires only one or two slight changes to dial it in than great. I doubt I would find that.

What I describe above is almost exactly what I went though with my gravel bike... Oddly with my XC hardtail, the only thing I've changed so far is the tires. hmmmm... I don't ride it near as many hours or miles though.

Hiro11

By retail, I mean going online and buying parts. So, almost everyone pays retail.

cs1