mrblue

Hello,
I have two bikes with Ultegra (R8000 & 6800) and would like to swap out the 6800 for something a bit different. I was thinking about Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed. Does anyone have any experience with Chorus 12? I had Potenza 11 and it was pretty good except for the three failed rear derailleurs, which resulted in switching to the Ultegra R8000. Also, I noticed Campy says the Chorus 12 brake shoes are "universal." I assume that means they'll work with "Shimano" style brake pads. Correct?

So please let me know what your experience has been with Chorus 12.

Thanks.

mattcalifornia

I've been running Chorus 12 mechanical/rim for about 600 miles. So far, it's been great, but obviously I can't speak to long-term durability yet. Shifts are quick and precise, with that satisfying Campy "thunk" that's like slamming the door on a G-Wagen. Brakes are good with my alloy rims. I can definitely recommend it -- especially since you can get a whole groupset for just over a $1k on line. However, I can't compare it to Ultegra, so I'm not sure how useful my comments are. Some Shimano people find the Campy shifters weird, but since you already rode Potenza, that shouldn't be an issue for you. I'm surprised about your Potenza failures. I've been riding Campy (Record and Chorus) since the 80s and never had that happen. Is that a known issue with Potenza?

As far as I know, you can use any rim brake pads you want.

mrblue

As far as I know, the issue with Potenza was a known issue to me a couple of other people who's forum posts I found across the internet. I tried bringing the issue to Campy USA's attention but they didn't want to hear about it. They just swore up and down about how reliable Campy products are and how they'd never seen/heard of such a thing. They just told me to go talk to my LBS and file a warranty claim. And the funny thing was, I wasn't even asking for a replacement or a repair. I just wanted them to know about it. On the other hand, if you go to the Campy website you'll notice Campy no longer offers Potenza. Hmmmm, I wonder what that means?

Thanks for you input!

Leinster

It means nobody like Potenza, I guess. I never did, they ditched Athena and replaced it with a fugly crank and a derailleur with plastic parts all over it.

I see it can be had for dirt cheap now; https://www.jbikestore.com/campagnol...gaAmlAEALw_wcB

If you're lucky enough to find NOS Athena 11 on the Bay it'll probably be twice that.

mrblue

From what I see it seems like that's what Campy is doing with Chorus 12. They've swapped out a lot the carbon parts and replaced them with aluminum or, their nomenclature for the plastic parts when they were pushing Potenza, a "techno-polymer."

This is why I was hoping someone would have some long-term feedback regarding Chorus 12. If it's going the same way as Potenza I don't want anything to do with it.

Leinster

Oooh. Thumbs down on "techno-polymer." And yeah, it's plastic.

mrblue

It's unfortunate. It seems like Campy is really only focused on Super Record and Record and making themselves into an elitist luxury brand, e.g. Armani, Ferrari, Versace, Lamborghini etc.

mattcalifornia

As far as I can tell, there is very little "techno-polymer" in the new Chorus groupset. It may be limited to a small piece of the RD (not 100% sure about that). The RD is mostly alloy, with a small amount of plastic and carbon. The durability of this piece remains to be seen. One good thing is that Chorus, Record and SR are interchangeable, so if the Chorus RD turns out to be a bad design, at least you can upgrade just that one component to Record (currently $175 at probikekit dot com).

DaveSSS 

I put chorus 12 on one bike last July, replacing 2018 chorus 11. I liked it so well that I bought a second group for my other bike. I really needed the new 48/32 crank and 11-34 cassette for riding steep hills and mountain routes. I've been using Campy exclusively for 25 years.

The only issue I've had is really a bike frame issue. The internal cable routing creates more cable friction than a bike with external cables. The new maximum smoothness cables help, but after 2500 miles, I started having a problem shifting to the smallest sprocket. To be safe, the cable and housing should both be replaced, if that happens. The front derailleur cable never caused any problem.

If anything, chorus is more durable than record or SR. Aluminum RD cage and brake levers are more durable than carbon and so is the all all metal FD. Most of the commenters so far have zero experience with the new Chorus 12. It functions just like the higher level groups and always has. I would not recommend the lower level groups, due to their different shift lever mechanism.

mattcalifornia

By the way, I wouldn't just write off "techno polymer." I have no idea what it is, but some plastics are incredibly strong. Look at motorcycle and football helmets.

Litespud

Yes, but impact resistance and wear resistance are different things. Your bike helmet has to step up to the plate one time and it's finished, your RD has to go through the motions for years. I'm not saying that "plastic" in an RD is necessarily a bad thing, just that because helmets are also made of plastic doesn't necessarily make it (plastic in RDs) a good thing.

mattcalifornia

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm also not agreeing with it. The point is that "plastics" and "polymers" can be many different things. I don't think any of us have enough facts to opine on the durability of the Chorus RD. Likewise, even if it was made of carbon, that wouldn't necessarily mean it was bullet proof. If you look at the Chorus, it seems the bulk of the important pieces are alloy. But we'll see how it holds up over time.

Sy Reene

Of course, if you haven't realized yet, you'd need a campy-cassette compatible rear wheel as well.

DaveSSS 

Genuine shimano wheels can't be converted to a Campy freehub body, but most others can. I just changed my Campy wheels to SRAM XDR for $65 each. The swap adds about 5 minutes to a cassette change.

mrblue

Yes. If I do opt to go with Chorus I have a nice set of Zipp 202's awaiting a Campy freehub.

mattcalifornia

Somebody posted in another thread that SRAM 12-speed cassettes work perfectly with Campy 12 drivetrains. I have never tried it, but that might be another option if you can't change your freehub.

DaveSSS 

That may have been me, but sram 12 requires a change to an XDR freehub body.

flx100

Also, when we say "carbon" isn't that plastic too? Strands of polyacrylonitrile, a polymer resin (plastic) inside epoxy resin (plastic)

(i know i'm being slightly sarcastic)

mattcalifornia

No - actually that's a good point. It seems like technopolymer actually is some sort of carbon reinforced composite. Their own description of Super Record 11-speed rear derailleur says: "upper and lower body in monolithic carbon powder technopolymer." [[url]https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2369_Groupsets_Catalogue_Campagnolo_2018.pdf] They describe the 12-speed SR RD as: "The upper body of the new Super Record™ 12X2 Speed rear derailleur is made of technopolymer plastic reinforced with carbon fibre." [https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Components/super_record_rear_derailleur] So, basically, we don't really know exactly what it is.