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Why isn't touring just called bikepacking?

Old 08-30-20, 07:30 PM
  #51  
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In the first pic he appears to have panniers. So bicycle touring. In the second, he doesn't, so bike packing.
30 years ahead of his time, he was.
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Old 08-30-20, 10:23 PM
  #52  
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It’s simple. Bike tourers smoke pipes. Bikepackers smoke blunts.
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Old 08-31-20, 03:54 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by tcs
My bicycling literature from the 1930s thru the 1970s uses the term 'cycletouring' [...] That word is obsolete now and you seldom see it.
Which is an absolute shame. I like my Specialités T.A. 'Cyclotouriste' cranks and they fit with the modern compact double or 1x setup.
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Old 08-31-20, 11:18 AM
  #54  
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Because "touring" sounds cooler (read: showier and more pretentious.) It signals that you've "arrived," and now you're "giving back" by hugging some trees, reducing your environmental footprint, and connecting with the honest, hard-working indigenous people of... wherever.

Bikepacking is a way of pretending that that you're "on a journey of self discovery" and "uniting the world" and all that business - which is a lofty claim, given that most "evil" multinational corporations shamelessly make the exact same claim.

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Old 08-31-20, 01:15 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by skookum
In the first pic he appears to have panniers. So bicycle touring. In the second, he doesn't, so bike packing.
A valid and pertinent comment, but I asked what the cyclists in those historical pictures would themselves at the time would have said they were doing, not what anyone would (re)define it as today.

I see this fellow riding on gravel with his dunnage strapped behind his saddle. In 1967 Bicycling! magazine termed this 'touring'.




I also note that under your definition, two cyclists riding together on the same overnight trip could be doing two different things, based on the difference between their bags. Not wrong, but I could see it getting awkward and complicated.

Because you know I'm all about the bags,
'Bout the bags, no bike
I'm all 'bout the bags, 'bout the bags, no trip
I'm all 'bout the bags, 'bout the bags, no memories
I'm all 'bout the bags, 'bout the bags


And we'll need another word for what this fellow, on a long-distance trip with neither seat bag nor panniers, is doing:

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Old 08-31-20, 01:38 PM
  #56  
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Does it count if my wife drives ahead and meets me with change of clothes at nice hotels? Bikeglamping?
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Old 08-31-20, 07:09 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by burritos
Does it count if my wife drives ahead and meets me with change of clothes at nice hotels? Bikeglamping?
Thats already been defined as “credit card touring”.
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Old 08-31-20, 08:15 PM
  #58  
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To me "tour" implies a longer ride, possibly over night or even a year. But nothing implies off or on road or how the luggage is attached. There also is no implications regarding drops or flatbar bike. I also could creditcard tour or hire a sag van and only have water and no bags. Still would be touring. Hell, the Tour de France is a long tour and no one has panniers.

"Bikepack" implies a bag attached to the bike directly as opposed to panniers or some other framing. Nothing in there says on or offroad, drop or flatbar.
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Old 08-31-20, 08:18 PM
  #59  
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I hope we can all at least agree both touring and bike-packing are very different from the growing velo-camping movement.
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Old 08-31-20, 08:27 PM
  #60  
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Old 09-01-20, 08:38 AM
  #61  
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'Bikepacking' is a portmanteau of bike & backpacking. In my opinion, bikepacking is generally done on trails where one might go backpacking, and the bags for bikepacking are sort of like backpacks for the bike.

Also, any time one is riding at a casual pace to enjoy scenery, especially when extending rides or trips over multiple days, one is 'bicycle touring'.

Within that you could either be 'loaded touring' (carrying living supplies on the bike, usually with racks and panniers) or bikepacking (generally more off-road riding, usually carrying living supplies with frame mounted bags instead of panniers). Then there is supported touring (a motor vehicle carries camping and living supplies between stops, minimal gear carried on the bike), and credit card touring (carrying minimal supplies and paying for indoor sleeping accommodations like hotels or hostels),
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Old 09-01-20, 09:25 AM
  #62  
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it's all really quite simple really. really.

"bikepacking" means whatever it needs to mean in order for merchandisers to convince the marks they need to purchase more stuff now.
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Old 09-01-20, 11:26 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by saddlesores
it's all really quite simple really. really.

"bikepacking" means whatever it needs to mean in order for merchandisers to convince the marks they need to purchase more stuff now.
and that does not apply to tourers?
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Old 09-01-20, 11:49 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
Thats already been defined as “credit card touring”.
Wonder if they consulted my wife when they coined that term.
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Old 09-01-20, 12:56 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by str
and that does not apply to tourers?
well, of course not! ....as long as they're doing it the way i'm doing it.

otherwise they're doing it wrong.
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Old 09-01-20, 03:04 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by tcs
...

Great photo, it reminds me that I used to ride without bike shorts, without bike shoes, without helmet, etc. Chromed steel spoke protector, I suspect that is a 5 speed cluster. I have not seen a Huret Allvit rear derailleur in years.

Touring equipment has really changed a lot in the past half century.
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Old 09-01-20, 10:11 PM
  #67  
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The first tours I did close to 50 years ago (3-speeds, stuff tied on with twine...) as opposed to what I did a few weeks ago (stayed in hotels on a bike I could only have dreamed about) may look different and require different terminology, but the joy and the freedom remain unchanged.

Other things that never change are the incredibly intense memories, fascinating encounters and continual bewilderment that so few people ever enjoy this amazing yet simple possibility.

If you have a few days and the weather doesn't look so terrible, then just get out. You'll never have perfect equipment, but pretty good equipment is adequate. As long as my body holds out, I'll be out there.
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Old 09-01-20, 10:14 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by str
what is bike touring?

riding 100% on tarmac eating motorised traffic with 70L panniers and 28mm tires?

You mean I've been doing it wrong all these years?
I ride roads with sparse traffic, many times gravel or cow paths, with 42mm tires, and panniers only hold 60L
I'm going to have to rethink my whole bike plan

But It still won't be "bike packing"
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Old 09-02-20, 12:50 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by MarcusT
You mean I've been doing it wrong all these years?
I ride roads with sparse traffic, many times gravel or cow paths, with 42mm tires, and panniers only hold 60L
I'm going to have to rethink my whole bike plan

But It still won't be "bike packing"
no, you won't, since your earring a 60L hotel on your bike

to me its all the same, whatever the definition is, I don't understand why people need categories. pack stuff on your bike, go out, enjoy nature, its cycling, breath fresh air.

the only thing I don't get is when people cycle tarmac roads filled with motorised traffic.
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Old 09-02-20, 12:52 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by wgscott

)) thinking in panniers how many litters this would be? 70L?
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Old 09-02-20, 04:15 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by str
)) thinking in panniers how many litters this would be? 70L?
irrelevant!

the vehicle, although fully human-powered, has THREE wheels.

the human if using panniers would be engaged in TRIcycle-touring,
or if using frame bags and packs, the activity would be "Troikapacking."

however, the human pictured has gone beyond all reason and is engaging in TROIS-glamping!

Last edited by saddlesores; 09-02-20 at 05:15 AM. Reason: stupid, stupid aotu-correct!
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Old 09-02-20, 07:02 AM
  #72  
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Different strokes, but I am inclined to call any of the incarnations of overnight or longer rides bike touring. I don't call day rides touring. I don't call going somewhere and doing day rides from a base camp touring, I won't get too wound up if others use different terms or consider day rides touring though.

I actually kind of like the term cycle touring or even bicycle touring and often actually use the latter when speaking to folks who might otherwise assume I am talking about a motorcycle.

If I were 30 years younger I might call it all bikepacking.
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Old 09-02-20, 09:40 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by str
to me its all the same, whatever the definition is, I don't understand why people need categories. pack stuff on your bike, go out, enjoy nature, its cycling, breath fresh air.
Yes, touring is “touring” but there are different ways to do it and places to ride in. Modern bikepacking gear was introduced (perhaps “reintroduced”) by Revelate Design to fix a problem. Touring on mountain bike trails and rocky four wheel drive roads using a mountain bike isn’t amenable to racks and panniers. Mountain bikes have become race or play bicycles and generally don’t have rack mounts so if you are going to carry gear, you need a different kind of bag to do so. The other alternative is to pull a trailer which is worse than panniers.

”Bikepacking” implies a different kind of touring than road touring. To call it all bikepacking is equivalent to calling all bicycles “10 speeds” or saying that “it’s just a bicycle” when talking about the myriad of different bicycle types. While it’s possible to use a road racing bike for mountain biking, most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose.

Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks. The load to too high. Even on a mountain bike, the bikepacking gear makes the bike a bit squirrelly.

the only thing I don't get is when people cycle tarmac roads filled with motorised traffic.
Where else are you going to ride? Honestly, I’d rather ride a tarmac road with traffic over a gravel road with even marginal traffic. I’ve done up to 1500 mile tours. Some were a mix of dirt roads, tow paths, and paved roads. Some...probably most...have been almost 100% pavement. Some have even had parts on the shoulders of interstate highways. It’s not like I can ride up to 1500 miles only on bike paths here in the US.
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Old 09-02-20, 10:31 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Yes, touring is “touring” but there are different ways to do it and places to ride in. Modern bikepacking gear was introduced (perhaps “reintroduced”) by Revelate Design to fix a problem. Touring on mountain bike trails and rocky four wheel drive roads using a mountain bike isn’t amenable to racks and panniers. Mountain bikes have become race or play bicycles and generally don’t have rack mounts so if you are going to carry gear, you need a different kind of bag to do so. The other alternative is to pull a trailer which is worse than panniers.

”Bikepacking” implies a different kind of touring than road touring. To call it all bikepacking is equivalent to calling all bicycles “10 speeds” or saying that “it’s just a bicycle” when talking about the myriad of different bicycle types. While it’s possible to use a road racing bike for mountain biking, most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose.

Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks. The load to too high. Even on a mountain bike, the bikepacking gear makes the bike a bit squirrelly.



Where else are you going to ride? Honestly, I’d rather ride a tarmac road with traffic over a gravel road with even marginal traffic. I’ve done up to 1500 mile tours. Some were a mix of dirt roads, tow paths, and paved roads. Some...probably most...have been almost 100% pavement. Some have even had parts on the shoulders of interstate highways. It’s not like I can ride up to 1500 miles only on bike paths here in the US.

you have done 1500mile tours, wait, I have to transfer this into KM. so... it is 2400km, is that a lot? looks normal to me, nothing what a bike touring guy or some guy with some bags strapped onto the bike can't do. but please skip the traffic ;(). enjoy breathing fresh air and unspoiled nature.

paved roads is not nature.
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Old 09-02-20, 10:40 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Yes, touring is “touring” but there are different ways to do it and places to ride in. Modern bikepacking gear was introduced (perhaps “reintroduced”) by Revelate Design to fix a problem. Touring on mountain bike trails and rocky four wheel drive roads using a mountain bike isn’t amenable to racks and panniers. Mountain bikes have become race or play bicycles and generally don’t have rack mounts so if you are going to carry gear, you need a different kind of bag to do so. The other alternative is to pull a trailer which is worse than panniers.

”Bikepacking” implies a different kind of touring than road touring. To call it all bikepacking is equivalent to calling all bicycles “10 speeds” or saying that “it’s just a bicycle” when talking about the myriad of different bicycle types. While it’s possible to use a road racing bike for mountain biking, most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose.

Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks. The load to too high. Even on a mountain bike, the bikepacking gear makes the bike a bit squirrelly.



Where else are you going to ride? Honestly, I’d rather ride a tarmac road with traffic over a gravel road with even marginal traffic. I’ve done up to 1500 mile tours. Some were a mix of dirt roads, tow paths, and paved roads. Some...probably most...have been almost 100% pavement. Some have even had parts on the shoulders of interstate highways. It’s not like I can ride up to 1500 miles only on bike paths here in the US.

""""most people would find more enjoyment in using a bike that was designed for the purpose."""""

do you talk fo a group of people, or only for yourself?


"""Yes, you can use bikepacking gear on a road bike but it’s a really crappy way to carry gear if you don’t need the clearance to ride over rocks."""

a road bike with Bikepacking gear? I thought we are talking about touring and bikepacking, no road bikes come in....... a road bike over rocks, of course not! a touring bike with full packed panniers over rocks? of course not!
a low trail geometry with 40-50mm tires over rocks! yes please! )
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