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Help me mull a wheel upgrade for Salsa Warbird

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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Help me mull a wheel upgrade for Salsa Warbird

Old 09-07-20, 07:32 PM
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MinnMan
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Help me mull a wheel upgrade for Salsa Warbird

I've got a 2020 Salsa Warbird 600 GRX that is sweet as can be, but of course it came with cheap and heavy wheels - WTB speedterra hubs ST i23 rims. This seems to be an OEM combination, so I can't find any specs on overall wheel weight, but I gather it's around 2000-2100 grams for the set.

So I'm thinking about an upgrade. I could get carbon wheels from LightBicycle for maybe $850 and they'd weigh around 1600 grams. But I'm not entirely sold on carbon rims for a gravel bike.

Any suggestions for alloy rims that would come in for about the same weight but less cost? Or alternatively, maybe I should just go with carbon rims? I'm running 42 mm Terravail Cannonballs now, but I'd like the option to run anything from 32 to 42 mm on these, so I'd be hoping for internal rim widths of 23 mm or so.
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Old 09-07-20, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
Any suggestions for alloy rims that would come in for about the same weight but less cost? Or alternatively, maybe I should just go with carbon rims? I'm running 42 mm Terravail Cannonballs now, but I'd like the option to run anything from 32 to 42 mm on these, so I'd be hoping for internal rim widths of 23 mm or so.
If looking for just rims to build up I've got a fondness for Velocity Aileron. Last year I built up my wife's cross bike with Sun inferno i25 rims for a nice gravel width and didn't find the weight too bad. Just under 2000g with XT 8000 hubs, 32h spokes and Alloy nipples but she's asking for a prettier upgrade so I'll be picking up Ailerons in purple for her; every pair I've weighed have been 450g a rim, 4 rims so far all within a gram or two so rims will be slightly lighter. Both sets ended up at about 1750 grams but were built with Chris King and White Industries, both use 6 bolt disc hubs which adds a touch more weight then centerlock and both wheels ended up really tough and fast spinning. Wouldn't be surprised if your rims aren't all that heavy but lighter spokes, nipples and hubs can make a difference. Can't remember what the i25 came to but it seemed reasonable for a durable gravel bike and for the 10.00 each I paid since they weren't tubeless ready.
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Old 09-08-20, 07:04 AM
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Stan’s Crest with double butted spokes and your hub of choice would be a great upgrade
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Old 09-08-20, 08:33 AM
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I literally just went through this for my Warbird. I went went carbon Bontrager Pro 3V's for two reasons:

1) I've never seen an alloy wheelset last all that long on a properly ridden gravel bike. The spokes holes in particular seem to give out way sooner than they should.
2) Bontrager's warranty is pretty great. 2 years against defects (spoke holes breaking), and lifetime crash replacement (much cheaper than buying new wheels every time they break, which they will.)

I figure the initial up front cost will even itself out over the course of a few years.
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Old 09-08-20, 12:48 PM
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I have Light Bicycle wheels (hooked rims) for my gravel bike and I really like them - also they are much lighter than 1600 grams.

Last edited by tdilf; 09-08-20 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 09-08-20, 01:04 PM
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keep in mind with carbon - you are often looking at hookless rims. Not really a problem if you are below 5 bar, but I wouldn't go more than that. Although hook-less rims seem to be a little fat on the diameter side of things, making it more difficult to mount some of the tighter beads you can find on a higher pressure tubeless tire. Food for though.
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Old 09-08-20, 04:50 PM
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My go to wheel site...

https://www.psimet.com/shop/gravel-a...er-disc-brake/
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Old 09-08-20, 06:14 PM
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I’ve been happy with the DT Swiss c1800 wheelset that came on my 105 Warbird. DT Swiss says 1741g for the set, MSRP is under $500 but I’m guessing you can find them for less than that because they are a common OEM wheelset. Only had them for a year, but so far they’ve been great.
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Old 09-08-20, 08:08 PM
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I'd go with the DT Swiss GR 1600 if you just want something reasonably light (for a wide alloy rim) and bombproof for training / adventure riding. You can still order them from Merlin Cycle for less than MSRP ($500) in the grey market. I had to talk myself out of a pair.

Other options (all built in USA by the way):

$700 - HED Emporia GA (formally Belgium G)
$700 - Astral Outback
$600 - Spinergy GX (cool wheels, but a big gotcha on truing)

I'm kinda waiting to see if there is a sale on the HED or Astrals during the winter myself (why I didn't get the GR 1600).
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Old 09-09-20, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zen_
I'd go with the DT Swiss GR 1600 if you just want something reasonably light (for a wide alloy rim) and bombproof for training / adventure riding. You can still order them from Merlin Cycle for less than MSRP ($500) in the grey market. I had to talk myself out of a pair.

Other options (all built in USA by the way):

$700 - HED Emporia GA (formally Belgium G)
$700 - Astral Outback
$600 - Spinergy GX (cool wheels, but a big gotcha on truing)

I'm kinda waiting to see if there is a sale on the HED or Astrals during the winter myself (why I didn't get the GR 1600).
Interesting suggestions. Thanks
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Old 09-09-20, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wheelsmcgee
I’ve been happy with the DT Swiss c1800 wheelset that came on my 105 Warbird. DT Swiss says 1741g for the set, MSRP is under $500 but I’m guessing you can find them for less than that because they are a common OEM wheelset. Only had them for a year, but so far they’ve been great.
I just got the G1800 (gravel wheel). The 24mm ID works nice with gravel tires (C1800 are a little narrower and listed as "gravel/road" wheels, and work great for gravel too). Yeah, the GR1600 is a few grams lighter, but about 50% more expensive. They are seem to be dimensionally correct and mount up my gravel tires easily (even tires that people complain are hard to mount).
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Old 09-13-20, 07:08 PM
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The DT Swiss Whelset mentioned above is our second favorite, but the often overlooked bargain is the new Shimano GRX wheelset at $419.00 US. It has fantastic and easy to service Shimano cup and cone hubs, weighs a little over 1600 grams, is really durable and has straight pull spokes. We have put these on a lot of bikes this year as an OEM upgrade, and honestly for under $500 they are our favorite. We stock and sell DT Swiss, Reynolds, FSA, Hunt and Easton at our gravel shop by the way but in this price range they are our favorite. They do not have a cult following or cool decals, but they DO PERFORM! And when they do need servicing all you need is bit of grease and cone wrenches, no special bearings to order or finicky adjustment procedures.
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Old 09-13-20, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee
The DT Swiss Whelset mentioned above is our second favorite, but the often overlooked bargain is the new Shimano GRX wheelset at $419.00 US. It has fantastic and easy to service Shimano cup and cone hubs, weighs a little over 1600 grams, is really durable and has straight pull spokes. We have put these on a lot of bikes this year as an OEM upgrade, and honestly for under $500 they are our favorite. We stock and sell DT Swiss, Reynolds, FSA, Hunt and Easton at our gravel shop by the way but in this price range they are our favorite. They do not have a cult following or cool decals, but they DO PERFORM! And when they do need servicing all you need is bit of grease and cone wrenches, no special bearings to order or finicky adjustment procedures.
That's an interesting suggestion, and I'm surprised that I didn't already know about it. I'm a little confused though. I think the $419 wheelset is actually more like 1800 grams? And the 1600 gram version is more like $650? Still, worth considering.
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Old 09-13-20, 08:35 PM
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The published weight specs on the set bounced around when they first came out but the last we saw was I think 1650 grams. I'll check the weight on a set we have at the shop this week and confirm. This actually has a steel hub body which is incredibly durable, and that means more of the rotating weight is at the center instead of at the rim though so that makes it a very fast-feeling lively wheel. The Hunt and FSA wheels at this price are overall lower quality though a lot of folks like them because they are trendy. The Eastons are really good but a bit more expensive, The DT Swiss are nice but a bit more pricey (have to spend $800+ to get an equivalent to the GRX). Reynolds are fantastic but way more expensive (carbon only). After a thousand miles or so the differences become more apparent in how they hold up. We test everything we carry ourselves with multiple riders and frankly and to our surprise the Shimano GRX wheels are really high quality, great ride quality, durable and very well priced. Our only issue is we wish they were 1.5MM wider inside. Two of our heaviest riders beat the pee out of a set for the whole summer and they stay dead true, and bearings really hold up... And if you have ever worked on a Shimano wheel you know how easy and inexpensive they are to service. Not the sexiest, but they do hold up. And no weird tools or methods for the spokes either. Shimano was really late to the game with introducing these, but they knocked it out of the park when they did. Nothing we have seen beats these at this price.

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Old 09-13-20, 10:59 PM
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Note: Riding Gravel review claims 1650 grams for 700C wheelset: https://www.ridinggravel.com/reviews...ts-checkpoint/
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Old 09-22-20, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee
The published weight specs on the set bounced around when they first came out but the last we saw was I think 1650 grams. I'll check the weight on a set we have at the shop this week and confirm. This actually has a steel hub body which is incredibly durable, and that means more of the rotating weight is at the center instead of at the rim though so that makes it a very fast-feeling lively wheel. The Hunt and FSA wheels at this price are overall lower quality though a lot of folks like them because they are trendy. The Eastons are really good but a bit more expensive, The DT Swiss are nice but a bit more pricey (have to spend $800+ to get an equivalent to the GRX). Reynolds are fantastic but way more expensive (carbon only). After a thousand miles or so the differences become more apparent in how they hold up. We test everything we carry ourselves with multiple riders and frankly and to our surprise the Shimano GRX wheels are really high quality, great ride quality, durable and very well priced. Our only issue is we wish they were 1.5MM wider inside. Two of our heaviest riders beat the pee out of a set for the whole summer and they stay dead true, and bearings really hold up... And if you have ever worked on a Shimano wheel you know how easy and inexpensive they are to service. Not the sexiest, but they do hold up. And no weird tools or methods for the spokes either. Shimano was really late to the game with introducing these, but they knocked it out of the park when they did. Nothing we have seen beats these at this price.
It's confusing. For the GRX wheelset (WH-RX570 700C) that sells for $419, Shimano has the front wheel at 769 grams and the rear wheel at 950 grams. So, 1720 grams for the set. That's a pretty good deal.

The step up from that is their Ultegra-equivalent WH-RS770-700C, which comes in at 903 grams (rear) and 733 grams (front), so 1630 grams. I've seen this one selling for about $700
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Old 09-22-20, 04:47 PM
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I’ve got about 1000 miles on a set of Hunt 30 carbon gravel disc’s so far this season. I don’t ride rocky singletrack but I’m a big guy, ride gravel 90% of the miles and so far so good. I went with carbon for the durability. The advertised weight of 1480grams was spot on. They have Novatec hubs that are annoyingly loud but they have held up so far. Tires mount really well tubeless (Ramblers and Terra speeds).

I looked at their site and they are 100 bucks more than when I bought mine in February. You pay a 10% duty on any purchase over 800 so that adds enough that I think I’d go for a wheel with a better hub set for comparable dough.

For the folks who say alloys ride better... you may be able to tell a difference but running tubeless 40 or 45mm tires? I don’t think so. Durability of the carbons makes it an easy choice imo.
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Old 09-22-20, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
It's confusing. For the GRX wheelset (WH-RX570 700C) that sells for $419, Shimano has the front wheel at 769 grams and the rear wheel at 950 grams. So, 1720 grams for the set. That's a pretty good deal.

The step up from that is their Ultegra-equivalent WH-RS770-700C, which comes in at 903 grams (rear) and 733 grams (front), so 1630 grams. I've seen this one selling for about $700
Note that the RX570s are alloy and the RS770s are Shimano's proprietery "carbon laminate" - thin alloy wheels strengthened by lamination of carbon. This is the same construction method that they have used for a long time on their high end (e.g., Dura Ace, Ultegra) wheels.

I tend to like Shimano hubs, too which are pretty quiet.

Still thinking. I'll buy wheels for this rig eventually, but I'm not in a hurry.
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Old 10-02-20, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee
The DT Swiss Whelset mentioned above is our second favorite, but the often overlooked bargain is the new Shimano GRX wheelset at $419.00 US. It has fantastic and easy to service Shimano cup and cone hubs, weighs a little over 1600 grams, is really durable and has straight pull spokes. We have put these on a lot of bikes this year as an OEM upgrade, and honestly for under $500 they are our favorite. We stock and sell DT Swiss, Reynolds, FSA, Hunt and Easton at our gravel shop by the way but in this price range they are our favorite. They do not have a cult following or cool decals, but they DO PERFORM! And when they do need servicing all you need is bit of grease and cone wrenches, no special bearings to order or finicky adjustment procedures.
I dont suppose anyone is aware of a quick release rear-wheel adapter for GRX wheelset?

Also, dwmckee, can you clarify which of the dt swiss wheelsets mentioned is your second favorite? I see the GR1600, G1800 and C1800 all mentioned.
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Old 10-02-20, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dwmckee
The DT Swiss Whelset mentioned above is our second favorite, but the often overlooked bargain is the new Shimano GRX wheelset at $419.00 US. It has fantastic and easy to service Shimano cup and cone hubs, weighs a little over 1600 grams, is really durable and has straight pull spokes. We have put these on a lot of bikes this year as an OEM upgrade, and honestly for under $500 they are our favorite. We stock and sell DT Swiss, Reynolds, FSA, Hunt and Easton at our gravel shop by the way but in this price range they are our favorite. They do not have a cult following or cool decals, but they DO PERFORM! And when they do need servicing all you need is bit of grease and cone wrenches, no special bearings to order or finicky adjustment procedures.
On the Shimano GRXs, are you sure about the weight being only around 1600 grams? The Shimano web site seems to indicate that it's closer to 1950 grams.
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Old 10-02-20, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by force10
I dont suppose anyone is aware of a quick release rear-wheel adapter for GRX wheelset?

Also, dwmckee, can you clarify which of the dt swiss wheelsets mentioned is your second favorite? I see the GR1600, G1800 and C1800 all mentioned.
Shimano doesn't have end caps for their wheels. The GRX wheelset is thru axle only. There are some XT wheels out there that are QR, but not as easy to find.

Hope and DT Swiss are 2 examples have end caps to support both QR and TA.
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Old 10-02-20, 04:23 PM
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Paire de roues DUKE Lucky Star ultra / Bitex - JPRACINGBIKE1

Offset alu rim. D-light spokes. Bitex.

CX-Ray are higher price. There's also a DT Swiss hub option.
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Old 10-02-20, 04:53 PM
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I've been using Easton EA90SL Discs since April and really like the light weight and quick engagement. They use replaceable end caps, weigh at 1560g per, have an inner width of 19.5mm, but are hookless - if you want to run high pressure they might not work for you.
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