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C&V sailboats (and bikes)

Old 09-15-20, 06:50 PM
  #26  
dunkleosteus
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Those of you around (or who frequent) the SF bay should drop by the Cal Sail Club in the Berkeley marina. It's a great little sailing cooperative I spent a few years sailing with on mostly two sail dinghies like RS quests and JY15s. Really friendly folks! There's also a crazy playground next door where they give kids hammers and nails to run around with.
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Old 09-15-20, 08:13 PM
  #27  
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I have a 1974 Laser, that, I'm sorry to say, I haven't gotten wet right way up since 2011 or so. I also have a "Frankenbyte", i.e. a Byte hull with Laser sail and rigging, for the most part, but this hot rod is yet an uinfinished project. Unfortunately, from the pursuit of sailing point of view, my life has evolved since these acquisitions to thwart me from using them lately. No complaints overall.
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Old 09-15-20, 09:03 PM
  #28  
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I've had the privilege of sailing on some wooden classics. As a kid on a Concordia sailing down Maine's Eggemoggin Reach. College days, Buzzard's Bay in a full southwesterly by myself in a 1907 Heresoff 12 1/2. (What sweet little boat! So easy to sail upwind in the full 25 knots of wind and short steep chop.) Years later I raced those same waters on a competitive IOR boat. Watched the 1930s Herresoff S-Boats sail away from our fleet upwind like we were dragging anchors. (The race committee sent them to a different mark to not rub it in. They knew!) I saw and laughed to myself. Of course, I've known there were fast old boats along time. Grew racing around Star boats. In light air upwind, those 1913 boats made the 1970s handicap racers look like dogs. So did our local Manchester I boats from the '30s. Never got to sail on the old fresh water rocket - the E-scow.

I wound never have the patience even if I had the money for a traditional wooden boat. Now a much lighter wood/epoxy boat? That would be fun! But I 'd have to live somewhere else where was either big water or really interesting water.

Ben.
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Old 09-15-20, 11:07 PM
  #29  
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If I had *lots* of time...

Sunfish and Laser sailor, the family had a Laser growing up and Scouting used Sunfishes.

If I had a ton of time, I'd love to build a lightweight sailer that could mount oars. A throwback to the working boats of Hornblower saga.

Something like gaboats.com offerings.
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Old 09-16-20, 01:59 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I've had the privilege of sailing on some wooden classics. As a kid on a Concordia sailing down Maine's Eggemoggin Reach. College days, Buzzard's Bay in a full southwesterly by myself in a 1907 Heresoff 12 1/2.
Had a buddy back in the early '90s who had a Luders 50' ketch of Herreshoff design. That thing could pull 15kts in a modest wind. Exceptionally sleek hull, heavily-built steel, with a deep, full keel, well-behaved in a rougher sea. Tons of sail area. The old coot who owned it had sailed around the world, in some of the roughest seas ... most of it solo. Beautiful old boat.


The Herreshoff Buzzard's Bay 15's were pretty sweet, for what they were. Fast, agile, easy to handle.






The Herreshoff S-class boats were amazing little things, too. Quick, even in light winds.

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Old 09-16-20, 10:43 AM
  #31  
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Here is a photo of our Catalina Capri 26 sailboat with the two Dahon folders we keep stored in the forepeak. The picture was taken on the 4th of July during a visit to San Francisco. I have to say that, despite the cost of ownership - which is not insignificant - that having this boat has been a blessing during these COVID times. With all of our other travel plans scrapped, we been able to take several trips of up to two weeks having our own cooking and restroom facilities on-board. The boat (which is ten miles from home) has been a safe place to go, to get out of the house, and get a break from cabin fever. We frequently use it as a destination for a bike ride - we'll pack a lunch, go up there, sail for a couple hours or just hang out on-board at the marina, then ride back home.

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Old 09-16-20, 06:01 PM
  #32  
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My lug-rigged yawl, Ondine:



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Old 09-16-20, 06:07 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by tyrion
"My other bike is a J Class sailboat." (I wish)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCMsSqfR1A
Did not someone commission a Super J of Ranger?

For me, I have a Plastic Classic, W.D.Schock Santana 30. (mark l)
from when the IOR (international offshore rule) was king.
Lots of fun to windward. A total handful downwind.
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Old 09-16-20, 08:42 PM
  #34  
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IOR rule boats in general have a reputation for bad manners downwind. What was it about the design that caused this?
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Old 09-16-20, 10:11 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by daka
IOR rule boats in general have a reputation for bad manners downwind. What was it about the design that caused this?
The rule took a series of measurement points and ran them through a formula. Kicked out a "length" The longer your "length" was, the faster your boat was assumed to be and the more highly it was penalized. So designers basically distorted the hull shape to have those points as small (for most, close to the centerline) as possible. This lead to boats with broad mid-sections and very narrow ends. Pumpkin seeds. But you look at any good high speed sailboat (or powerboat) and you will not fond one "pumpkin seed"!

I raced on a Carter 33. 33' long, 11' wide with severely pinched ends. Decently fast as handicap boats went in the day but downwind it was a real handful. We did a race with an all night run from Provincetown, Cape Cod to Portsmouth, Maine. Full spinnaker. By 11 pm it was blowing hard. I grew up sailing the small, very tippy English Firefly. It took all my Firefly skills to keep the boat under the spinnaker. (I did screw up once, early on and cleaned the dinner table for the other watch. They were a little upset because they had just sat down to eat. By midnight the wind was down a little. Watch change. The next few hours were a wild ride. Glad I was in a deep, narrow pilot berth! I heard no more complaints about my steering when I came back on deck.

The boat I love on the ocean in any wind is a fiberglass raceboat that was designed with no "rule"in mind. The Moore 24, built between the early '70s and mid '80s. Hull shape was a composite of a sweet LF Herreshoff forward half and the drawn out and full stern of a modern high speed craft but keeping the V-bottom and rounded bilge all the way aft. Deep fin keel of solid lead hung a foot below the hull and spade rudder. Light. 2000 lbs, 1000 lbs of lead. One of the sweetest steering boats ever. Secret was the classic Hesshoff bow with just enough bite to "tell" the boat where to go. IN one race, I sailed it with 2 fingers on the helm going upwind outside the Golden Gate in 25 knots of wind and 8' shortish, hard to steer, breaking waves, I spent the first hour at the helm trying to "drive' the boat fast through them. Tiring! Then I realized "this is a Moore 24. What if I just let it sail?" Went to two fingers and did nothing more. Just let the boat go where it wanted. Boat went faster and it was so easy I could have steered for many hours.

And the Moore downwind? A pure joy and downwind in enough wind (and guts and sail) very fast. Totally behaved. I was on the race committee boat once when I watched all the well sailed boats go downwind with the front of the keel out of water all the time. We heard after of speeds of 20 kts. No reason to question it.

The Moore 24, a fiberglass classic. Fully worthy of C & V. (I worked for Moore Brothers for a year. My next to last boat boat and the boat with my best workmanship --I knew it was my last and asked my co-laminaters to be patient with me - got named "Mercedes" Next week, last day, the big layup on a boat that would get named "Adios". That was 40 years ago. I believe both are still around.)

Ben
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Old 09-16-20, 10:30 PM
  #36  
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I read an account recently by Webb Chiles who has completed a circumnavigation on his Moore 24 "Gannet". He had nothing bad to say about the boat.
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Old 09-17-20, 03:00 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by repechage
Did not someone commission a Super J of Ranger?

For me, I have a Plastic Classic, W.D.Schock Santana 30. (mark l)
from when the IOR (international offshore rule) was king.
Lots of fun to windward. A total handful downwind.
I raced on a Santana 30/30 GP for two years down here in Ventura. This was one of two (I think) special prototypes that never went into production. Down below there was nothing other than places to stow gear. It surprised me how competitive the boat was given its year. We took first place two years in a row for the VYC circuit. I can’t remember ever working so hard to go sailing, guess I’m not a racer! It was a blast to sail though, very good in heavy air , and that surprised me. I had always thought of ULDB’s as wimps when the the wind picks up, boy, was I wrong. Fat Tuesday was a hoot in 30-35 it’s of wind!
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Old 09-17-20, 07:04 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
I raced on a Santana 30/30 GP for two years down here in Ventura. This was one of two (I think) special prototypes that never went into production. Down below there was nothing other than places to stow gear. It surprised me how competitive the boat was given its year. We took first place two years in a row for the VYC circuit. I can’t remember ever working so hard to go sailing ...
How about the International 14s class. Haven't ever done racing, myself, but as puny as those things are it sure looks like a ton of work. Very fast, huge sail area for the size of boat, and tricky to handle well. Imagine coping with a spinnaker that's ~five times the size of the boat itself. Dang.



Last edited by Clyde1820; 09-17-20 at 09:25 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-17-20, 07:28 AM
  #39  
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That reminds me of sailing my friend's Hobie 18 home from the island passing power boats!
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Old 09-17-20, 09:30 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
That reminds me of sailing my friend's Hobie 18 home from the island passing power boats!
Had a 26' sloop handle a bit like that in a 50kt gale, once. All day long, and all the following night and next morning. 20'+ following seas the next day. A very reefed main and the small fores'l on. Was about all that the two of us could handle. Lost the painter, so the skiff was lost in the crossing. Came into the cove a bit frazzled. Hair everywhere, eyes wide ... but didn't lose a sail, didn't dump the boat, and hadn't flooded below decks.

Again, I'm more of a Cherubini 48 Schooner guy, myself. Particularly these days, getting older. The hyper-sensitive boats, high-wind-speed crossings and whatnot ... those are for younger pups. I'm okay with that, these days. Still have all my parts, and can still get around. Could've been worse, given some of the "scrapes" we got into back in the day. Whew.
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Old 09-17-20, 04:06 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
I raced on a Santana 30/30 GP for two years down here in Ventura. This was one of two (I think) special prototypes that never went into production. Down below there was nothing other than places to stow gear. It surprised me how competitive the boat was given its year. We took first place two years in a row for the VYC circuit. I can’t remember ever working so hard to go sailing, guess I’m not a racer! It was a blast to sail though, very good in heavy air , and that surprised me. I had always thought of ULDB’s as wimps when the the wind picks up, boy, was I wrong. Fat Tuesday was a hoot in 30-35 it’s of wind!
I have seen that boat. That boat later was known as a PHRF rule beater. different design completely by Nelson / Merek. The rule "beat" was it was I was advised originally classified as a 30/30GP production version that had more, but not much more interior. Carried its beam quite far aft. Not like the current crop of sportboats today with a 30' length will weigh a ton less that what you raced on. My boat is like 20% heavier than the typical 30/30
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Old 09-18-20, 03:35 AM
  #42  
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Fat Tuesday Santa Barbara, California
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Old 09-18-20, 03:42 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by repechage
I have seen that boat. That boat later was known as a PHRF rule beater. different design completely by Nelson / Merek. The rule "beat" was it was I was advised originally classified as a 30/30GP production version that had more, but not much more interior. Carried its beam quite far aft. Not like the current crop of sportboats today with a 30' length will weigh a ton less that what you raced on. My boat is like 20% heavier than the typical 30/30
It was a fun boat, not my cup of tea , but very fast. That boat constantly surprised me how strong it was for its weight, even close hauled in a sizable wind swell , stiff and determined she didn't give way to lee. Some of the newer boats could definitely out point us though.
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Old 09-18-20, 02:54 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12

Fat Tuesday Santa Barbara, California
I placed my name on the waiting list for a slip 40 years ago... maybe in 30.
Santa Barbara only has slips available if a renter totally goofs up. They basically sell a junk boat and transfer the slip agreement to the new owner- $2k boats sell for $27k...

Just noticed that boat has a shaved toe rail. The deck has a ramp to help your thighs clear the toe rail, but this one is shaved, at least aft.
Tom Schock at a presentation about the time of the Schock 40, claimed they could build a boat to equal resin to glass ratio as a boat built with vacuum bagging...
I smirked.

Last edited by repechage; 09-18-20 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 09-18-20, 03:18 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by repechage
I placed my name on the waiting list for a slip 40 years ago... maybe in 30.
Santa Barbara only has slips available if a renter totally goofs up. They basically sell a junk boat and transfer the slip agreement to the new owner- $2k boats sell for $27k...

Just noticed that boat has a shaved toe rail. The deck has a ramp to help your thighs clear the toe rail, but this one is shaved, at least aft.
Tom Schock at a presentation about the time of the Schock 40, claimed they could build a boat to equal resin to glass ratio as a boat built with vacuum bagging...
I smirked.
this is not a standard GP. It is a prototype with a different keel and rudder. This and I think one other hill. You know your sailboats to pick up on that detail. We were only there for the Christmas Regatta the boat is in Ventura , VYC slip.
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Old 10-14-20, 09:24 AM
  #46  
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One of my major distractions this summer was finding a fiberglass 1974 Klepper sailing canoe. The sticker insides states "Made in West Germany" I just got the bare hull and have taken it out paddling a couple times. Apparently my internet scouring skills developed hunting bike parts is transferable to other venues, so with some drilling, fitting, filing, grinding and gooping this winter I should have a slightly steam punk version of the original. The red hull is mine, and the The rig on the blue hull is a more modern version of the 60's sail kit I'll be fitting to the boat. The major project is mounting a modern aftermarket rudder, as the original is unobtanium and kind of "hinkey" in it execution.



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Old 10-14-20, 06:19 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by thinktubes
Get a Laser.
This Laser might be faster than your bike! Alexander Graham Bell technology.
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Old 10-14-20, 07:02 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost
My lug-rigged yawl, Ondine:


Moe, That looks like an Ian Oughtred design... Is it? Did you build it? Regardless, that is a beautiful sailboat! Cheers!
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Old 10-15-20, 07:04 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by T.W.O.
Moe, That looks like an Ian Oughtred design... Is it? Did you build it? Regardless, that is a beautiful sailboat! Cheers!
Thanks. It is indeed an Oughtred design - Arctic Tern. I finished building it about 5 years ago and have been tweaking it ever since. I've just started building another Oughtred boat, a 17' Acorn skiff, intended just for rowing.
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Old 10-15-20, 10:39 AM
  #50  
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well in tradition of found it here is a klepper folding kayak with a sail rig for $150 in Minnesota.

this is like finding a de rosa, Nos for $10 in a garage sail most likely missing a zero

anyone want to facilitate??? Only half joking am finding k+1 is a thing

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/a...211732243.html

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